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Event_Horizon
Guest
Why would god give us the ability to question his existence and then send us to an eternity of torture if we do?
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God doesn't send anyone to hell for questioning his existence and hell isn't necessarily and eternity of torture. People will end up in hell for rejecting Christ's atoning sacrifice. If people want to maintain their separation from God in this life, it will result in their permanent separation in the next.
Welcome to the forums!
Welcome to the forums!
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Event_Horizon
Guest
Sorry, getting ahead of myself.
I'm not familiar with the bible directly, and don't know what it says in there. But from what you say, if we deny that jesus died for us, then we are seperating ourselves from god. First off, what exactly did Jesus do when he allowed himself to be crucified? What does, "died for our sins", actually mean?
I'm not familiar with the bible directly, and don't know what it says in there. But from what you say, if we deny that jesus died for us, then we are seperating ourselves from god. First off, what exactly did Jesus do when he allowed himself to be crucified? What does, "died for our sins", actually mean?
It simply means Jesus died in your place. He traded placed with you.The universal spirit law, that says that death eternal comes to all who sin (and all did sin) had to be paid for. One death (the one that sin brought ) must be balanced out with another death.(a sinless death )
At first in the time of Israel, they brought animals to sacrifice. But animals are animals and their blood did not really get rid of the curse. No human could do it, because we carry sin in our blood. It is handed over to us from generation to generation. Only a human with no sin could do it.
God had to find a way to stop the sin traveling through the blood. He found the answer:
God had to do it Himself. He sent His Son, and He had to be born through a virgin so that there was no father to pass on the sin through blood. As we know today, the child does not share blood with the mother.God also knew it and sent Jesus through Mary.
He was in all other ways the same as us. He was tempted just like you and me, but he did not sin. He overcame temptation and became the perfect sacrifice. A clean blood offering with no sin.
God accepted this offering as a final offering to cleanse all mankind . He made it to be a gift for all and it is for free. Once you accept this gift, He removes the curse of sin from your life, and starts teaching you how to live in freedom from the curse. If you submit to the Word of God, then you will also be allowed to walk in victory over sin, sickness and even death. All your needs (not lusts) will be supplied and you will have authority over creation in this life. God will fill you with His Spirit and give you power.
I can see a question. : Why do Christian then not live in the manner described above?
Answer: They do not fully submit to the Word.
There are Christians that live like this, and if you ask God, He will bring you into contact with them, once the curse has been lifted from your life.
I tried to keep it as simple as possible.
I am glad you are here, because God directs the steps of men. He brought you here , because you are precious in His eyes.
C
At first in the time of Israel, they brought animals to sacrifice. But animals are animals and their blood did not really get rid of the curse. No human could do it, because we carry sin in our blood. It is handed over to us from generation to generation. Only a human with no sin could do it.
God had to find a way to stop the sin traveling through the blood. He found the answer:
God had to do it Himself. He sent His Son, and He had to be born through a virgin so that there was no father to pass on the sin through blood. As we know today, the child does not share blood with the mother.God also knew it
and sent Jesus through Mary.He was in all other ways the same as us. He was tempted just like you and me, but he did not sin. He overcame temptation and became the perfect sacrifice. A clean blood offering with no sin.
God accepted this offering as a final offering to cleanse all mankind . He made it to be a gift for all and it is for free. Once you accept this gift, He removes the curse of sin from your life, and starts teaching you how to live in freedom from the curse. If you submit to the Word of God, then you will also be allowed to walk in victory over sin, sickness and even death. All your needs (not lusts) will be supplied and you will have authority over creation in this life. God will fill you with His Spirit and give you power.
I can see a question. : Why do Christian then not live in the manner described above?
Answer: They do not fully submit to the Word.
There are Christians that live like this, and if you ask God, He will bring you into contact with them, once the curse has been lifted from your life.
I tried to keep it as simple as possible.
I am glad you are here, because God directs the steps of men. He brought you here , because you are precious in His eyes.
C
E
Event_Horizon
Guest
When you say Jesus died in my place, do you mean God would have elminated all humans if Jesus had not been crucified?
Why is there still so much mayhem and corruption in the world if Jesus died for our sins? What would the world be like right now if Jesus had not died for our sins?
And you say god directs the steps of man. Does this imply that everything we do is predetermined? If this is so, then why does god direct some people to sin, and other to not sin? Does god pre-select who will go to heaven and who won't before they're even born? Is there no free will?
Why is there still so much mayhem and corruption in the world if Jesus died for our sins? What would the world be like right now if Jesus had not died for our sins?
And you say god directs the steps of man. Does this imply that everything we do is predetermined? If this is so, then why does god direct some people to sin, and other to not sin? Does god pre-select who will go to heaven and who won't before they're even born? Is there no free will?
R
Rick W
Guest
I think I know where this is not going.
:gah
:gah
Hi Event, nice to meet you.
Are you interested in knowing God or the Bible? If you are not, no matter what the Bible say, you will not accept it. You should make up your mind which and be honest about it to the borad or you are wasting everyone's time with questions. If you are sincere to know God and the Bible we are happy to answer your questions.
thank you
Are you interested in knowing God or the Bible? If you are not, no matter what the Bible say, you will not accept it. You should make up your mind which and be honest about it to the borad or you are wasting everyone's time with questions. If you are sincere to know God and the Bible we are happy to answer your questions.
thank you
Drew
Member
I liked Cornelius' answer and I will put forward what I believe to be a similar one. The "sin" problem is not an abstract theological things that has no connection with the physicality of our world (Cornelius emphasises this and I agree with him). Here is my "point form" take on why Jesus had to die. As you will see, I see the action of Jesus on the cross as being more of a "repair" job than a purely judicial transaction involving purely abstract notions like guilt, justice, punishment, etc.Event_Horizon said:
1. Adam did something which damaged the very DNA of both humankind and the cosmos in general. Before Adam's action, the world was a very different place, even in its fundamental physical character. Death now exists whereas God wanted his creation to not involve death.
2. A loving God has a problem now - how to fix the damage that Adam has caused.
3. The problem that God has to deal with is this: a very real "force" or power, which I will can "sin" has infected the world through the action of Adam. It has damaged creation through and through. But "sin" is not a moral category - it is a "thing", a force, an entity that has permeated all creation. So how can God fix this?
4. God's plan begins with a promise to Abraham - that all the world will be blessed through him. I think this a coded way of God saying "The nation of Israel (Abraham's descendents) will be the method I use to get rid of sin.
5. God gives Israel the Torah - the Law of Moses. The giving of this law has a subtle and seemingly dark purpose - to lure the "power of sin" into one place - the nation of Israel. Remember, I am asserting that sin is a real force or power - and it can be concentrated and localized. And when it is localized, it be can neutralized.
6. So through Torah, the power of sin is "lured" into the nation of Israel. But because the members of Israel share in the Adamic nature, they do not have the capability to break the power of sin that is building up in their nation.
7. So God sends Jesus as the true Israel - the one whose very nature would allow sin to be neutralized if it (the power of sin) can be "cornered" in Jesus.
8. That is what happens on the cross. Acting as Israel rolled up into one person, the power of sin is localized in the flesh of Jesus. Like an army that has been cornered, sin is now vulnerable.
9. WIth sin cornered in this way, God the Father attacks the sin that has been rendered vunerable in this way. In the violence of this action, Jesus dies. But there was no other option open to God - sin had to be broken and cornering it in the flesh of "God in the flesh" was simply the only way to accomplish this.
10. God's great plan has reached its climax on the cross. Sin has been defeated the repair of the damaged world is underway. And we are living in the age between the "start of the repair" and its ultimate fulfillment - a cosmos restored to the state God always wanted.
I can understand that there are many things I have written which would need extensive elaboration. But, this is my best effort of giving a thumbnail sketch of why I think God sent to Jesus to the cross.
"God give us the ability to question his existence"Event_Horizon said:
If you are saying that God had to take his magic wand and supernaturally force people to question his existence, well, it seems to me you are starting with a false premise.
Now a question for you. Assuming I am correct that you started with a false premise that misrepresents Orthodox Christianity, why did you feel the need to misrepresent Christianity in the first place?
By the way.... I like the nick Event Horizon. What causes a mass on the other side of an event horizon to explode?
lovely
Member
Horizon, we are already separated from God ,and are already set on a course of destruction. Jesus is our mediator, our Way to God, and our Salvation from the wrath to come upon all sin and death. God, in love, provided a Way with His own Son, Jesus the Christ.
The world groans and suffers because of the physcial consequence to sin, but God is longsuffering with this world so that more can come to Him. God has mercy on all men, and they all enjoy the blessings He gives depsite our sin.
Christ suffered on the cross for the world, for all. All will not come to Him, but those who do are His body here. These believers are called to fill up the sufferings in Christ's body by laying down their own lives and walking as He walked...the way is narrow, and the road is hard...many will begin and not overcome.
God knows all, and yet He has made an offer to all who will come...To reconcile this has been a burning theological question for some time, and we all have opinions here, but I haven't met/read/spoken to anyone in the flesh who actually has the fullness of Truth in the matter. I am still studying to show myself approved unto God, and trusting the Spirit to show me in the Word.
If you would like an answer to theological questions, then you must start at the beginning by receiving Christ. Unbelievers do not see at all, and believers only see through a dark glass dimly. So, for the dimmest view one must receive the Gospel and become part of the body, for a better view one must go on to bear fruit and participate in edifying the body in growth, and for the clear view one must live with the body in the presence of God's love for eternity.
The Lord bless you.
The world groans and suffers because of the physcial consequence to sin, but God is longsuffering with this world so that more can come to Him. God has mercy on all men, and they all enjoy the blessings He gives depsite our sin.
Christ suffered on the cross for the world, for all. All will not come to Him, but those who do are His body here. These believers are called to fill up the sufferings in Christ's body by laying down their own lives and walking as He walked...the way is narrow, and the road is hard...many will begin and not overcome.
God knows all, and yet He has made an offer to all who will come...To reconcile this has been a burning theological question for some time, and we all have opinions here, but I haven't met/read/spoken to anyone in the flesh who actually has the fullness of Truth in the matter. I am still studying to show myself approved unto God, and trusting the Spirit to show me in the Word.
If you would like an answer to theological questions, then you must start at the beginning by receiving Christ. Unbelievers do not see at all, and believers only see through a dark glass dimly. So, for the dimmest view one must receive the Gospel and become part of the body, for a better view one must go on to bear fruit and participate in edifying the body in growth, and for the clear view one must live with the body in the presence of God's love for eternity.
The Lord bless you.
E
Event_Horizon
Guest
shad said:Hi Event, nice to meet you.
Are you interested in knowing God or the Bible? If you are not, no matter what the Bible say, you will not accept it. You should make up your mind which and be honest about it to the borad or you are wasting everyone's time with questions. If you are sincere to know God and the Bible we are happy to answer your questions.
thank you
I suppose I'm interested in knowing all possibilities of the universe. I was brought up in a heavy christian family, went through puberty and ended up becoming atheist (out of emotion, i was just a stupid teenager with a lot of anger, and i turned that anger towards religion), and now i'm just trying to find answers. I don't believe in any god's in a religious sense, i dont believe anyone really cares how i live my life, but i find it hard to imagine the universe coming into existence by chance.
E
Event_Horizon
Guest
mondar said:
Mass can't "explode" once it's past the event horizon, the graviatational pull is too strong to allow anything to move away from the center of the black hole.
E
Event_Horizon
Guest
That's a good question. Scientists say that all predictability would break down at the big bang singularity, so whatever happened before wouldn't matter; we wouldnt be able to use what happened before the big bang to determine what would happen after. Well, thats the scientific explanation. The big bang is just a theory also.
T
Tomlane
Guest
Free said:God doesn't send anyone to hell for questioning his existence and hell isn't necessarily and eternity of torture. People will end up in hell for rejecting Christ's atoning sacrifice. If people want to maintain their separation from God in this life, it will result in their permanent separation in the next.
Welcome to the forums!
Free:
accurate and right on the mark. That is wonderful witness you gave.Tomlane
Rom 11:32-36
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
KJV
Event,
Only he who has become guilty before God can become reconciled to God. Once reconciled, the answers come to questions that you have never asked.
So the first question to ask is concerning your guilt. He has bound us all in unbelief. We are all under condemnation through our natural capacities. We all deserve hell and death. The lust of our flesh and the lust of our eyes has bound us to the service of sin.
Joe
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
KJV
Event,
Only he who has become guilty before God can become reconciled to God. Once reconciled, the answers come to questions that you have never asked.
So the first question to ask is concerning your guilt. He has bound us all in unbelief. We are all under condemnation through our natural capacities. We all deserve hell and death. The lust of our flesh and the lust of our eyes has bound us to the service of sin.
Joe