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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Why is the sin nature not remove completely...
- Thread starter iLOVE
- Start date
Nathan
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- Sep 1, 2010
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At first I replied with assuming you meant something else than what you wrote. After reading what I wrote I had to scratch my head. I completely misread your post.
The sin nature is removed when a person becomes a new creation in Christ. Completely. The 'natural' inclination to sin is no longer there.
Is there another way to word the question?
The sin nature is removed when a person becomes a new creation in Christ. Completely. The 'natural' inclination to sin is no longer there.
Is there another way to word the question?
iLOVE
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- Oct 4, 2012
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The new creation continues to live with corruption (the sin nature) (1 Corinthians 15:53) until the rapture of the Church. However, the younger (the new creation) is greater than the elder (the sin nature) (Genesis 25:23). Why? Because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world (1 John 4:4, Romans 6). We are still dying which shows that the sin nature lives in us. If the sin nature did not live in the Christian we would not age or die.
iLOVE
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And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. Exodus 17:11
Amalek was to dwell in the land, but not to reign in it. Romans 6:12 says, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies." The command would be unmeaning if the sin nature were not existing in the Christian. The sin nature dwells in a Believer, but dwells and reigns in an unbeliever.
Let me say this again! Do not miss this!
Works of the flesh
Paul tells us this in the 5th Chapter of Galatians. The entire Book of Galatians, but especially the 5th Chapter, is a warning from Paul to the Church at Galatia, which is also meant for us. The warning is that if they place their faith in anything except “Christ and Him Crucified,” that “Christ shall profit you nothing” (Gal. 5:2).
The Apostle goes on to say that if the Believer doesn’t adhere to the Way of the Spirit, which is the Way of the Cross, then works of the flesh will manifest themselves. He said:
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).
Now let me say it again, because it is so very important:
If the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross of Christ, as it regards Sanctification, then, in some way, one or more of these “works of the flesh” are going to manifest themselves in his life. As stated, such is inevitable! The first four, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness,” are obvious and easily understood. But the modern Christian quickly dismisses “idolatry, witchcraft, and heresies,” thinking they do not really apply today.
Let us address that:
First of all, any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.
Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.
The Message of the Cross - Pastor Jimmy Swaggart
Amalek was to dwell in the land, but not to reign in it. Romans 6:12 says, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies." The command would be unmeaning if the sin nature were not existing in the Christian. The sin nature dwells in a Believer, but dwells and reigns in an unbeliever.
Let me say this again! Do not miss this!
Works of the flesh
Paul tells us this in the 5th Chapter of Galatians. The entire Book of Galatians, but especially the 5th Chapter, is a warning from Paul to the Church at Galatia, which is also meant for us. The warning is that if they place their faith in anything except “Christ and Him Crucified,” that “Christ shall profit you nothing” (Gal. 5:2).
The Apostle goes on to say that if the Believer doesn’t adhere to the Way of the Spirit, which is the Way of the Cross, then works of the flesh will manifest themselves. He said:
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).
Now let me say it again, because it is so very important:
If the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross of Christ, as it regards Sanctification, then, in some way, one or more of these “works of the flesh” are going to manifest themselves in his life. As stated, such is inevitable! The first four, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness,” are obvious and easily understood. But the modern Christian quickly dismisses “idolatry, witchcraft, and heresies,” thinking they do not really apply today.
Let us address that:
First of all, any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.
Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.
The Message of the Cross - Pastor Jimmy Swaggart
iLOVE
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- Oct 4, 2012
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The hands "upheld" signified total dependence on the Lord. When the Believer is totally depending on the Lord, and what He did for us at the Cross, the victory of Christ belongs to us; otherwise, it doesn't!
Exodus 17:12 says, "But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."
(The "Stone," as well, is symbolic of Christ. Moses exhaustion portrays the fact that our own efforts soon result in spiritual burn-out. But once we are in God's glorious way [sitting on the Stone], the victory is ours. "Aaron" was a Type of Christ as our Great High Priest, and "Hur," whose name means "light," speaks to us of the Holy Spirit. This is the help afforded the Child of God. But unfortunately, most Christians are trying to hold up their hands [trusting in God] by their own personal strength, which is doomed to failure.)
The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation. Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross, understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory. When we stay "victory" we are speaking Victory in every capacity, be it spiritual, financial, domestically, physical, etc. God's Prescribed Order of Victory is "the Cross of Christ."
The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)
Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!
The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).
Exodus 17:13 says, "And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword." (The "sword" here is a Type of the Word of God [Eph. 6:17]. The Word of God holds the answer to every single problem which pertains to "Life and Godliness" [2 Peter 1:3-4].)
1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
The Expositor's Study Bible - Pastor Jimmy Swaggart
Exodus 17:12 says, "But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."
(The "Stone," as well, is symbolic of Christ. Moses exhaustion portrays the fact that our own efforts soon result in spiritual burn-out. But once we are in God's glorious way [sitting on the Stone], the victory is ours. "Aaron" was a Type of Christ as our Great High Priest, and "Hur," whose name means "light," speaks to us of the Holy Spirit. This is the help afforded the Child of God. But unfortunately, most Christians are trying to hold up their hands [trusting in God] by their own personal strength, which is doomed to failure.)
The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation. Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross, understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory. When we stay "victory" we are speaking Victory in every capacity, be it spiritual, financial, domestically, physical, etc. God's Prescribed Order of Victory is "the Cross of Christ."
The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)
Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!
The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).
Exodus 17:13 says, "And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword." (The "sword" here is a Type of the Word of God [Eph. 6:17]. The Word of God holds the answer to every single problem which pertains to "Life and Godliness" [2 Peter 1:3-4].)
1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
The Expositor's Study Bible - Pastor Jimmy Swaggart
Last edited:
Nathan
Member
- Sep 1, 2010
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I see. I thought you might be speaking in this way, but I was thrown off by the verbiage used.
I wouldn't call it a sin nature after a person is born from above. I am not sure what I would label it, but when I think "nature" I think that which comes from what's inside.
When we are born from above we have a new 'nature' in Christ. We are still tempted by the body of sin, and all other things around us(other bodies of sin), but we are free from its control - completely.
Before, with the sin nature inherited from Adam, we were not in control - we were slaves to sin.
The Spirit of God is who now who leads us from inside - or at least He should be.
So I do see what your saying, and I think it's one of those very deep and worth while subjects to consider. I hope the conversation grows.
iLOVE
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The Holy Spirit, He Works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "the Cross of Christ", which demands that our Faith be exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15). The Holy Spirit is the sanctifier for the Christian; we cannot sanctify ourselves.
And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee (Deuteronomy 7:22). The beasts of the field represent pride and self righteousness.
We learn from Deuteronomy 7:21-23 (Type and Shadow), little by little will He remove the sin nature that is made dormant in our lives. Isaiah 28:10 says, "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
Romans 8:13 says, "If you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live." Paul warns the Believer, he said, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, (the) sin (nature) revived, and I died (failed God by sinning, using the flesh) (Romans 7:9)." Zechariah 4:6
The sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit mortifies the deed of the flesh by changing my condition into my position which is perfect and Holy because God has declared us justified (not guilt and innocent).
As a Christian we were "set free" the moment we are saved - "made free" speaks of a process. "Set Free," i.e., instantaneous - "Made Free, " i.e., You should know the truth and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32, John 14:6). "Made Free" = sanctification.
Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15
2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3
The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.
JSM
And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee (Deuteronomy 7:22). The beasts of the field represent pride and self righteousness.
We learn from Deuteronomy 7:21-23 (Type and Shadow), little by little will He remove the sin nature that is made dormant in our lives. Isaiah 28:10 says, "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
Romans 8:13 says, "If you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live." Paul warns the Believer, he said, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, (the) sin (nature) revived, and I died (failed God by sinning, using the flesh) (Romans 7:9)." Zechariah 4:6
The sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit mortifies the deed of the flesh by changing my condition into my position which is perfect and Holy because God has declared us justified (not guilt and innocent).
As a Christian we were "set free" the moment we are saved - "made free" speaks of a process. "Set Free," i.e., instantaneous - "Made Free, " i.e., You should know the truth and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32, John 14:6). "Made Free" = sanctification.
Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15
2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3
The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.
JSM
Last edited:
Cygnus
Member
- Mar 12, 2016
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Why are we not fully sanctified when we are born again.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
- Aug 16, 2015
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This might not be a direct answer to the question, "why is sin still in us," but I think the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus has merrit in this conversation. (John 3:1-21). Expecially John 3:8, comparing where the wind comes from or where it goes no one knows, and it's the same for how people can't explain how one is born of the spirit.
My best guess for answering the question though is to refer to Paul's writing about the thorn in his flesh in 2 Corinthians 12:5-10.
Perhaps our sin nature is there to keep us humble and keep us from being proud. Possibly to keep us relying on God, or possibly to keep us from thinking of ourselves as greater then the unbelievers because of perfection.