Witness Lee's "Local Church"?

[Scotth1960]

Dear friends, What about Witness Lee's Local Church? Have you read any of their books, or studied them at all? I know very little about them, but I used to read their magazine "Affirmation and Critique" I believe it was called. It had some interesting insights, and had an "air of correctness" about it, which was hard to object too. But then some of what the Local Church teaches may be in some way questionable, from a Biblical perspective. Further study needed before making a decision on them, that is for sure.

See: Witness Lee's Local Church Denomination (The Recovery Movement)
http:// Witness Lee's Local Church


God bless all of you and all of us. All of us here in God's one planet earth.
God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott Harrington
:nod

 

[Strangelove]

I only read the first line and it already looks unsound to me.

Quote:

Question asked of Watchman Nee in China 1947, “If a servant of the Lord from another Christian group gives us more or higher spiritual light, do we receive it?†Watchman Nee thought for a while and then said: “God did not give us all the light. If somebody gives us more light, we should be very glad to receive it!â€

Endquote.

Sola Scriptura.

 

[Scotth1960]

I only read the first line and it already looks unsound to me.

Quote:

Question asked of Watchman Nee in China 1947, “If a servant of the Lord from another Christian group gives us more or higher spiritual light, do we receive it?†Watchman Nee thought for a while and then said: “God did not give us all the light. If somebody gives us more light, we should be very glad to receive it!â€

Endquote.

Sola Scriptura.

Dear Strangelove, Chapter and verse in the Bible that says "Sola Scripture" (the Bible alone). In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Strangelove, Chapter and verse in the Bible that says "Sola Scripture" (the Bible alone). In Erie PA Scott H.

Chapter and verse that says 'Trinity' please.

In the mean time heres some verses that SHOW and POINT TO Sola Scriptura:

4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.​

1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a
declaration of those things which are most surely believed among
us,
1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning
were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all
things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most
excellent Theophilus,
1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein
thou hast been instructed.

Matthew 4:1-11. Three times Jesus was tempted by the Devil and each time Jesus replied exactly the same three dangerous words that defeated the Devil: "IT IS WRITTEN" Read it for yourself! If any one could have used oral tradition, it was Jesus, yet he chose the only safe and sure way to defeat Satan: Scripture.

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
good works.

Luke 10:26: "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" Jesus expected even his enemies to correctly interpret the Bible by simply reading and studying it. Unlike Jesus, Catholics and Orthodox don’t ask you what you think scripture says, they just tell you how their church interprets it and you have no choice but to accept what they tell you.

Acts 17:11-12: Even though the apostles were inspired with genuine oral revelation, they always directed people to the scriptures for the final determination of truth. Oral tradition is worthless without the witness of scripture! Unlike the apostles, Catholics and Orthodox would never send you to scripture, since they don’t think you can even understand it!

The Gospel of John, by itself, is sufficient to bring about saving faith in Christ without oral traditions and the other three gospels! Actually, this may be true of each of the four gospels, although it is only stated by John:

Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. (John 20:30-31)

In Lolz GM Doc Q.​

 

[Scotth1960]

Chapter and verse that says 'Trinity' please.

In the mean time heres some verses that SHOW and POINT TO Sola Scriptura:

4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.​

1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a
declaration of those things which are most surely believed among
us,
1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning
were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all
things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most
excellent Theophilus,
1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein
thou hast been instructed.

Matthew 4:1-11. Three times Jesus was tempted by the Devil and each time Jesus replied exactly the same three dangerous words that defeated the Devil: "IT IS WRITTEN" Read it for yourself! If any one could have used oral tradition, it was Jesus, yet he chose the only safe and sure way to defeat Satan: Scripture.

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
good works.

Luke 10:26: "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" Jesus expected even his enemies to correctly interpret the Bible by simply reading and studying it. Unlike Jesus, Catholics and Orthodox don’t ask you what you think scripture says, they just tell you how their church interprets it and you have no choice but to accept what they tell you.

Acts 17:11-12: Even though the apostles were inspired with genuine oral revelation, they always directed people to the scriptures for the final determination of truth. Oral tradition is worthless without the witness of scripture! Unlike the apostles, Catholics and Orthodox would never send you to scripture, since they don’t think you can even understand it!

The Gospel of John, by itself, is sufficient to bring about saving faith in Christ without oral traditions and the other three gospels! Actually, this may be true of each of the four gospels, although it is only stated by John:

Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. (John 20:30-31)

In Lolz GM Doc Q.​

Dear Strangelove, Scripture alone, and no spoken words for Christians? What does St. Paul say (write) in 2 Thessalonians 2:15? "So then, brothers, stand for, and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter" (ESV, emphasis added). If Scripture alone is commanded for Christians, St. Paul could not have commented upon Scripture, and could not have preached, but would have just read the OT aloud in the synagogues and house churches where he preached Christ. The NT was not completed in the days of the apostles; some of it took until St. John died on Patmos. So the NT canon was not complete until this Apostle died, and the whole NT was not widely circulated among the churches until many centuries later; some churches may not have even had the whole NT or the whole OT, for that matter. It took a long time to write and produce written manuscripts 2,000 years ago. In Erie PA
Scott

 

[Elijah674]

Dear Strangelove, Scripture alone, and no spoken words for Christians? What does St. Paul say (write) in 2 Thessalonians 2:15? "So then, brothers, stand for, and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter" (ESV, emphasis added). If Scripture alone is commanded for Christians, St. Paul could not have commented upon Scripture, and could not have preached, but would have just read the OT aloud in the synagogues and house churches where he preached Christ. The NT was not completed in the days of the apostles; some of it took until St. John died on Patmos. So the NT canon was not complete until this Apostle died, and the whole NT was not widely circulated among the churches until many centuries later; some churches may not have even had the whole NT or the whole OT, for that matter. It took a long time to write and produce written manuscripts 2,000 years ago. In Erie PA
Scott

And what does GOD SAY in Jer. 17:5 about making 'The Arm Of Flesh your TRUST'?! That the Mat. 7 World's Broadway ones that have many traditions with hardly any two alike. And the Rev. 17:1-5 ones ALL HAVE Eternally lost church traditions. (if one believes God?)

--Elijah

 

[Scotth1960]

And what does GOD SAY in Jer. 17:5 about making 'The Arm Of Flesh your TRUST'?! That the Mat. 7 World's Broadway ones that have many traditions with hardly any two alike. And the Rev. 17:1-5 ones ALL HAVE Eternally lost church traditions. (if one believes God?)

--Elijah

Dear Elijah, Again your words are incomprehensible. The words from God should be comprehensible. As for tradition, Scripture distinguished between 2 kinds of tradition: the traditions of men, where Christ was referring to the vain, hypocritical traditions of the Pharisees, and he wasn't discussing Roman Catholicism or any other tradition. Roman Catholicism can be refuted from Scripture and Church history, as in John 15:26, and the case of pope Honorius of Rome, who was heretical. For example. As for the other traditions, there are the traditions of God. Christ preached the tradition (truth) of God, as Christ Himself was The Tradition, The Truth, the Way, the Life, the Light of the world, etc.
St. Paul St. Peter St. Andrew St. John St. James, all the other apostles of Christ preached the traditions of God (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:15). These we receive because they are mentioned in Scripture (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:15), but also received from the spoken word of historic Christian tradition, as in communion in both kinds (holy Eucharist) using leavened bread, and baptism by immersion in the name of the Trinity in three immersions, three immersions for the Trinity's 3 persons. This is not mentioned in Scripture, but is part of the spoken word of the apostles mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:15. In Erie Scott Harrington

 

[Sam21]

The traditions taught by Paul ARE scripture because he received them directly from Jesus Christ.

 

[Scotth1960]

The traditions taught by Paul ARE scripture because he received them directly from Jesus Christ.

Dear Sam21, Not at all. Some of what Paul preached was NOT WRITTEN down, because that is what 2 Thess. 2:15. Can't you read CAREFULLY what St. Paul wrote? He talked about his spoken words, and that is not written Scripture. Some tradition is oral only, and not written down anywhere. How do we know what Paul said that was not written down except from oral traditions passed down through the Church? In Erie PA Scott

 

[Scotth1960]

The traditions taught by Paul ARE scripture because he received them directly from Jesus Christ.

Sam21 Paul received his traditions from Jesus Christ, but not everything Paul received was written down in the NT. Some of the Gospel traditions were spoken in words only by Paul and the 12 apostles. How do we know these except through oral traditions passed on down through the centuries. Eventually, some of these oral traditions get written down, but the point is some traditions remain unwritten. In Erie Scott

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Strangelove, Scripture alone, and no spoken words for Christians? What does St. Paul say (write) in 2 Thessalonians 2:15? "So then, brothers, stand for, and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter" (ESV, emphasis added). If Scripture alone is commanded for Christians, St. Paul could not have commented upon Scripture, and could not have preached, but would have just read the OT aloud in the synagogues and house churches where he preached Christ. The NT was not completed in the days of the apostles; some of it took until St. John died on Patmos. So the NT canon was not complete until this Apostle died, and the whole NT was not widely circulated among the churches until many centuries later; some churches may not have even had the whole NT or the whole OT, for that matter. It took a long time to write and produce written manuscripts 2,000 years ago. In Erie PA
Scott

Thats why he said by WORD OR EPISTLE. His or the Apostles Word. Those commisioned by Christ Himself. Not made up traditions by fallible church 'leaders' who veered from scripture.

Please stop using 2 Thessalonians 2:15 as your ONLY proof text. It's clearly not talking about extra-biblical traditions. Stuff that Jesus despised.

 

[Strangelove]

Dear Sam21, Not at all. Some of what Paul preached was NOT WRITTEN down, because that is what 2 Thess. 2:15. Can't you read CAREFULLY what St. Paul wrote? He talked about his spoken words, and that is not written Scripture. Some tradition is oral only, and not written down anywhere. How do we know what Paul said that was not written down except from oral traditions passed down through the Church? In Erie PA Scott

Sam21 Paul received his traditions from Jesus Christ, but not everything Paul received was written down in the NT. Some of the Gospel traditions were spoken in words only by Paul and the 12 apostles. How do we know these except through oral traditions passed on down through the centuries. Eventually, some of these oral traditions get written down, but the point is some traditions remain unwritten. In Erie Scott

How do you know what traditions Paul HIMSELF transmitted to the church orally that he forgot to write down in his epistles?

Is it likely that Paul forgot to write down some important traditions that Christians should be doing?

Ludicrous.

Or is it more likely that heretical sects invented their own rituals which they tried to put Christians in BONDAGE to in order to control them and exercise worldly power and influence over their flock?

I challenge you to a one on one debate on the EO lithurgy.

Lets see you defend all these rituals in the light of scripture and see if they are biblical.

Game?