ahigherway
Member
Hi everyone!
A word came to me last night before falling asleep: "all will come."
Now some do not believe that God is able to love His enemies, or save them, either.
So I would like to look at a word which has much relevance with regard to eternal torment. This word is "extortion."
extortion (n.) "to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power."
(Now before someone says, well that's just "Webster's" definition, and he isn't born again-- I'd like to say this: God gave us a brain for a purpose, and if we don't want to use it, then we probably should turn our computers off.)
Ok.
Does the Bible mention extortion? YES! I like the KJV, so I'll use it here, but if someone has a version which mentions it in a different place, add it here!
In the OT:
- "Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour." Psalm 109: 11
- "Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land." Isaiah 16:4
- "In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD." Ezek. 22:12
In the NT:
- "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess." Matt. 23:25
- "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican." Luke 18:11
- "Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world." 1 Cor. 5:10
- "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." 1 Cor. 5:11
- "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 6:10.
The first thing I noticed here, was that the Pharisees believe that they are not extortioners; Jesus says that they are!
Question: Would God use extortion in order to get people to follow Him? (It's implied that God "could" if He wanted to, since He's GOD.)
Does God threaten people with punishment so that they might "obey Him?" Is this consistent with the notion that God IS Love? Can love and extortion go hand-in-hand?
I think that most Christians would say that God is not an extortioner. Indeed, it seems that extortion is understood throughout scripture to be not a good thing. And not a fruit of the Spirit, either!
Blessings of God's Love to all here,
brian
Just a small postscript:
as "extortion" means to intimidate, looking at the definition of "intimidate" and other synonyms may help us to understand the implications of the doctrine of eternal torment.
intimidate: to make timid or fearful; frighten.
browbeat: to intimidate or disconcert by a stern manner or arrogant speech.
bully (v) : to treat abusively; to affect by means of force or coercion.
bulldoze: to coerce or restrain by threats.
cow (v.) : to destroy the resolve or courage of. To "cow" implies reduction to a state where the spirit is broken or all courage is lost. (It's interesting what God tells us in Isaiah 57: "For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made." It seems here, that if God stays angry, His Spirit suffers. This is in agreement with the fact that Love "is not resentful." God cannot stay angry forever. Whether there is a "punishment" or not, He does not let anger overcome Him.)
Food for thought...
A word came to me last night before falling asleep: "all will come."
Now some do not believe that God is able to love His enemies, or save them, either.
So I would like to look at a word which has much relevance with regard to eternal torment. This word is "extortion."
extortion (n.) "to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power."
(Now before someone says, well that's just "Webster's" definition, and he isn't born again-- I'd like to say this: God gave us a brain for a purpose, and if we don't want to use it, then we probably should turn our computers off.)
Ok.
Does the Bible mention extortion? YES! I like the KJV, so I'll use it here, but if someone has a version which mentions it in a different place, add it here!
In the OT:
- "Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour." Psalm 109: 11
- "Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land." Isaiah 16:4
- "In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD." Ezek. 22:12
In the NT:
- "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess." Matt. 23:25
- "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican." Luke 18:11
- "Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world." 1 Cor. 5:10
- "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." 1 Cor. 5:11
- "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Cor. 6:10.
The first thing I noticed here, was that the Pharisees believe that they are not extortioners; Jesus says that they are!
Question: Would God use extortion in order to get people to follow Him? (It's implied that God "could" if He wanted to, since He's GOD.)
Does God threaten people with punishment so that they might "obey Him?" Is this consistent with the notion that God IS Love? Can love and extortion go hand-in-hand?
I think that most Christians would say that God is not an extortioner. Indeed, it seems that extortion is understood throughout scripture to be not a good thing. And not a fruit of the Spirit, either!
Blessings of God's Love to all here,
brian
Just a small postscript:
as "extortion" means to intimidate, looking at the definition of "intimidate" and other synonyms may help us to understand the implications of the doctrine of eternal torment.
intimidate: to make timid or fearful; frighten.
browbeat: to intimidate or disconcert by a stern manner or arrogant speech.
bully (v) : to treat abusively; to affect by means of force or coercion.
bulldoze: to coerce or restrain by threats.
cow (v.) : to destroy the resolve or courage of. To "cow" implies reduction to a state where the spirit is broken or all courage is lost. (It's interesting what God tells us in Isaiah 57: "For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made." It seems here, that if God stays angry, His Spirit suffers. This is in agreement with the fact that Love "is not resentful." God cannot stay angry forever. Whether there is a "punishment" or not, He does not let anger overcome Him.)
Food for thought...