Works

[Riverwolf]

This has been bothering me for a long time, the idea that so many Christians seem so happy and content in thier lives because they have faith, and so they are saved. I just don't get this at all. Rather than paste a bunch of scripture quotes here, how about answering how you live your life. Do you feel a need to hold that door open? Help that little old lady cross the street? Give all you can to charity? When driving in your nice car, do you stop to give the bum standing at the corner some change? Or look the other way, pretending to change the radio station? Do you REALLY believe you are saved by faith alone? Or is it by faith and works? And if that is so, how high is the bar set that you can be comfortable blowing money on food or clothes that you have no need for? Myself, I firmly believe it is by faith and works together. I certainly don't want to look the Lord in the eye someday while he shows me a picture of my earthly possesions and money in one hand, and a picture of starving people in the other. I pray daily to know how to help others in the best way that I can. This is not to build a stairway to heaven. It's just simply in my opinion the right thing to do.

 

[Alabaster]

We are saved by faith, but the proof is in the pudding, isn't it? Our faith comes to naught if there are no works to attest to that faith.

 

[Guap]

I think there is a difference between works of the law, to earn salvation, and doing good.
You ask questions about doing good. There are plenty of places in the NT where we are told to do good. Nowhere are we told we should earn our salvation.

 

[warhorse]

This has been bothering me for a long time, the idea that so many Christians seem so happy and content in thier lives because they have faith, and so they are saved. I just don't get this at all. Rather than paste a bunch of scripture quotes here, how about answering how you live your life. Do you feel a need to hold that door open? Help that little old lady cross the street? Give all you can to charity? When driving in your nice car, do you stop to give the bum standing at the corner some change? Or look the other way, pretending to change the radio station? Do you REALLY believe you are saved by faith alone? Or is it by faith and works? And if that is so, how high is the bar set that you can be comfortable blowing money on food or clothes that you have no need for? Myself, I firmly believe it is by faith and works together. I certainly don't want to look the Lord in the eye someday while he shows me a picture of my earthly possesions and money in one hand, and a picture of starving people in the other. I pray daily to know how to help others in the best way that I can. This is not to build a stairway to heaven. It's just simply in my opinion the right thing to do.

Works Done properly is evidence that christ is in our lives, we become the hands and feet of christ as we take on his heart.
Works done to earn salvation lacks faith in Gods redeeming ability and tries to, help out the salvation of God. It is an abomination.

 

[Forgiven83]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are not saved by works, but when the Holy Spirit is in control of our life we will walk in His Works.

 

[Drew]

We are saved by faith, but the proof is in the pudding, isn't it? Our faith comes to naught if there are no works to attest to that faith.

While I might express things a little differently, I heartily agree with this characterization, at least to the extent that you are implying that "if there are no good works, the faith is "not real", and the person, sadly, is not "saved".

 

[Drew]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are not saved by works, but when the Holy Spirit is in control of our life we will walk in His Works.

I disagree with what I see as your implicit take on Ephesians 2:9 - about not being "saved by works".

Here is Ephesians 2:8-9 from the NASB:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that (Y)no one may boast.

In verse 9, Paul is denying the salvific power of doing the works of Law of Moses, and not the more general category of “good worksâ€.

A point of method: It simply will not do to declare up front that Paul is talking about good works here – that begs the question. No, the fair-minded reader needs to ask which of the following views makes more sense given both the local context and the broader context of the whole letter:

1. The salvific power of doing good works is being denied;

2. The salvific power of doing the works of the Law of Moses is being denied.

Explanation 2 is the one that makes sense in light of what Paul goes on to say in verse 11 and following as well as what he says in Romans 3, where he makes it clear that, in respect to good works, the Jew and the Gentile are in the same boat.

Proceeding to an examination of Ephesians 2:11 and following, Paul uses the "therefore" to show us that he is now going to fill out the implications of his denial of salvation by “worksâ€

Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Paul is clearly now talking about the Jew-Gentile divide, and how the actions of Jesus have brought Jew and Gentile together. Doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, is what demarcates Jew from Gentile in terms of covenant membership and shuts the Gentile out of citizenship in Israel. Paul continues:

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

How much more clear could Paul be? What has divided the Jew from the Gentile and been the barrier? Good works? Obviously not, both Jew and Gentile are on “the same side†of any good works barrier (first 20 or so verses of Romans 3). It is doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, that is the very thing that the Jew might otherwise boast in and which is now being declared to not be salvific.

 

[Elijah674]

The [post]Sounds 'spiritually' Brain DEAD to me. Saved by Grace alone & then what??

Either one of the two as seen in Rev. 3:16-17 of HOT OBEDIENT LOVE, or SPEWED OUT SICK Stuff.. of NOT much Obedience, but surely Christ's ETERNAL WORD Documents that some love will not get one safe to save in all of eternity regardless of what one wants to falsely believe! Nah. 1:9

Wake up! Matt. 25:10 before the Door Is Eternally SHUT!

--Elijah

PS: And the Works that most FIGHT TO THE BITTER END (666) is the Lord's REQUIRED 7Th Day Sabbath COMMAND!

 

[Riverwolf]

We are saved by faith, but the proof is in the pudding, isn't it? Our faith comes to naught if there are no works to attest to that faith.

Thank you, good answer. In no way was I implying that salvation could be purchased. If that were the case then the rich would win again. But it is those who live with little or no works that confuse me. Does the money you toss out at church on Sunday justify in your heart the new expensive googaw that you buy that you do not need? Or the new car that you buy just because you want it? Now that your soul is saved, do you really care about that homeless person standing outside the store? I can not justify myself in these regards and pray daily for guidance.

 

[Alabaster]

Thank you, good answer. In no way was I implying that salvation could be purchased. If that were the case then the rich would win again. But it is those who live with little or no works that confuse me. Does the money you toss out at church on Sunday justify in your heart the new expensive googaw that you buy that you do not need? Or the new car that you buy just because you want it? Now that your soul is saved, do you really care about that homeless person standing outside the store? I can not justify myself in these regards and pray daily for guidance.

I don't worry about my neighbour, for God looks on the heart---something we cannot see. I can only evaluate my own heart's motive, and where there may be lack, I pray for more passion and compassion and resolve to put those elements of my faith to work, to give them legs, for the sake of Jesus Christ and His love for others.

Now, regarding googaws and new cars---He blesses us over and above, so that we are free to acquire things we like---it pleases God to give them. But we mustn't lose sight of the great Giver and the example He has set for us. People are more important than things.

 

[Joe67]

I don't worry about my neighbour, for God looks on the heart---something we cannot see. I can only evaluate my own heart's motive, and where there may be lack, I pray for more passion and compassion and resolve to put those elements of my faith to work, to give them legs, for the sake of Jesus Christ and His love for others.

Now, regarding googaws and new cars---He blesses us over and above, so that we are free to acquire things we like---it pleases God to give them. But we mustn't lose sight of the great Giver and the example He has set for us. People are more important than things.

Alabaster,

Consider Peter's witness.

1 Peter 4:1-2
:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
KJV
As we suffer for those who are unjustified, through the mind of Christ, we will not serve the lusts of men, but the will of God. Thus we cease from sin.

Joe

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster,

Consider Peter's witness.

1 Peter 4:1-2
:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
KJV
As we suffer for those who are unjustified, through the mind of Christ, we will not serve the lusts of men, but the will of God. Thus we cease from sin.

Joe

My King is pleased to bless me, His princess. This has nothing to do with lust of the flesh. It is actually Satan's desire to withhold believers from material blessing by influencing them that it is sin, because he knows that strong believers with material blessing would be giving it away in honour and gratefulness to God, and influencing the world for Jesus Christ.

 

[Alabaster]

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are not saved by works, but when the Holy Spirit is in control of our life we will walk in His Works.

Amen.

 

[WIP]

Thank you, good answer. In no way was I implying that salvation could be purchased. If that were the case then the rich would win again. But it is those who live with little or no works that confuse me. Does the money you toss out at church on Sunday justify in your heart the new expensive googaw that you buy that you do not need? Or the new car that you buy just because you want it? Now that your soul is saved, do you really care about that homeless person standing outside the store? I can not justify myself in these regards and pray daily for guidance.

I think we have to be careful about judging others based on our insight. If God is steering you toward feeding the hungry and clothing the poor, by all means jump at the opportunity but I don't think anyone is in a position to judge others because they choose to buy a car.

Here's the problem. Consider your new car analogy. When is a car old enough and deteriorated enough to be a justified purchase. There are advantages to owning new things. Sometimes it costs more to own old things as they are wearing out and need constant attention. The cost in both time and money required to maintain these old pieces of junk can take away from one's ability to put attention toward helping the less fortunate.

Does God require us to live destitute lives for the benefit of as many as we can? Job was rewarded with vast riches after his test with God and Satan. Solomon was granted extreme wealth and wisdom. David, the one after God's own heart, was very wealthy.

God is interested in where we keep our treasures. Being wealthy and living a comfortable life is not a sin unless we make it one.

 

[childeye]

This has been bothering me for a long time, the idea that so many Christians seem so happy and content in thier lives because they have faith, and so they are saved. I just don't get this at all. Rather than paste a bunch of scripture quotes here, how about answering how you live your life. Do you feel a need to hold that door open? Help that little old lady cross the street? Give all you can to charity? When driving in your nice car, do you stop to give the bum standing at the corner some change? Or look the other way, pretending to change the radio station? Do you REALLY believe you are saved by faith alone? Or is it by faith and works? And if that is so, how high is the bar set that you can be comfortable blowing money on food or clothes that you have no need for? Myself, I firmly believe it is by faith and works together. I certainly don't want to look the Lord in the eye someday while he shows me a picture of my earthly possesions and money in one hand, and a picture of starving people in the other. I pray daily to know how to help others in the best way that I can. This is not to build a stairway to heaven. It's just simply in my opinion the right thing to do.

Have you read my post titled divided by semantics? This is a case in point for the words works and faith have taken on different meanings. Faith is trust and where you point that trust is what gives it veracity. If one trusts the love in their heart, they will do works of love seeking to be obedient to the Spirit that is God. However if one does righteous works out of a sense of self righteousness, he has his reward with a mighty hand clap. There are in fact two righteousnesses in the bible and two different works therefore. One that gives glory to the worker and one that gives glory to God. I do not wish to sound as if I'm schooling you. I'm agreeing with you but trying to clear up the semantics that divide us all.