Seriously.. whom is the tribulation actually for.

[knab70]

The metaphor of the end time churches are not mentioned after Rev.3:21.We the church is taken to heaven in Rev.4 though in Rev.19:11 We the Bride (church) is back in light now ready to leave heaven to return with Christ in our white gowns (Robes) to defeat the Armies at armageddon... who are we going to bail out of trouble? none other than Israel. Who is at the aid of Israel today? Reading between the lines right here may help the mentality of believers not pre-trib.

The Judgement Period (7yr.Tribulation) known as the time of Jacobs trouble (Jewish remnant) is not the Bride of Christ because we begin our honeymoon in heaven right at the sound of the trump rapture @ 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ~Rev.4

The Church during this 7 yr. period will be with Christ which will involve three major events that must take place. (1) The Judgement Seat of Christ (2) The Great Supper of the lamb (3) Preparations made for the ride with Christ to defeat the armies of armageddon. Just to reiterate the Tribulation in scripture was never for the Gentiles Note: All humanity left behind without Christ after the event of the rapture will have to deal with the tribulation. Remember the first 3-1/2 will be temporary peace when the last half of the 7 is the Great tribulation such as the world has never seen!! Who is instructed to flea to the mountains?

I basically paraphrased the event.. so much scripture needs to be applied for due justice from the Old to New testament with that being said... I deeply believe the Body of Christ all believers will be raptured prior to the tribulation "Pre-trib".

In Christ Jesus Richard

 

[follower]

there's a paperback book entitled "Jesus Against the Rapture" printed decades ago, maybe no longer available, that explained in Jesus' own words why Jesus is against the rapture as promulgated by men around the world since basically 1832.
It was written simple, and gentle, and put to rest all the so-called arguments peacefully, in line with all of Scripture.
.....
the fact that if a doctrine contradicts any part of Scripture then it cannot be true seems to escape the grasp of multitudes in the last 2000 years(by the mere historical observations that multitudes have been tricked with obvious errors instead of testing all things with Scripture as the Bereans did/do). it(the contradiction(s)) cannot just be ignored nor 'reasoned away' with a shrug and a 'let it be'.

Edited reba.

 

[knab70]

The best commentary on the bible is the bible...paperbacks are not inspired. Let God be true every man a liar. The rapture was a mystery (secret) revealed only to the apostle Paul by Jesus Christ which was passed onto the churches. Inspired scripture does not contradict doctrine will.

 

[Gary]

All humanity left behind without Christ after the event of the rapture will have to deal with the tribulation.

Would you mind posting the verse or verses that verify your comment? Where in the bible does it refer to those who are left behind?

Thanks.
.

 

[knab70]

Would you mind posting the verse or verses that verify your comment? Where in the bible does it refer to those who are left behind?

Thanks.
.

Their are no direct scripture ref. to unbelievers left behind.. many circles over the years have used the Matt. 24 writings to try and fit into the rapture.The bible states we need to rightly divide the Word truth... sadly many don't. Schooled Christian's know these passages relate to the olivet discourse the Second Coming. Back to your question we know scripture tells us sin can not enter the kingdom God (heaven) we know their are only two conditions for the living soul..1)The Saved where their name is written into the Lambs book of Life in the Body of Christ the Church and 2) The non-saved unbelievers (Hell Bound). When people ask what scriptures is their for a ref. the people left behind I refer to the following....

Much scripture can be indirectly be used but for me I use Paul's writings on the subject at hand.1 Thessalonians 4: (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead (IN) Christ shall rise first.(17) Then we which are alive (and) remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The lost, the non-christians are not in the body of Christ which common sense tells you these will be left behind at the sound of the trump their souls are not conditioned for heaven!

Rich in Christ

 

[Willie T]

Their are no direct scripture ref. to unbelievers left behind.. many circles over the years have used the Matt. 24 writings to try and fit into the rapture.The bible states we need to rightly divide the Word truth... sadly many don't. Schooled Christian's know these passages relate to the olivet discourse the Second Coming. Back to your question we know scripture tells us sin can not enter the kingdom God (heaven) we know their are only two conditions for the living soul..1)The Saved where their name is written into the Lambs book of Life in the Body of Christ the Church and 2) The non-saved unbelievers (Hell Bound). When people ask what scriptures is their for a ref. the people left behind I refer to the following....

Much scripture can be indirectly be used but for me I use Paul's writings on the subject at hand.1 Thessalonians 4: (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead (IN) Christ shall rise first.(17) Then we which are alive (and) remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The lost, the non-christians are not in the body of Christ which common sense tells you these will be left behind at the sound of the trump their souls are not conditioned for heaven!

Rich in Christ

Then, how do all stand before the throne? What's the point of a judging time of dividing if the "separating" was already done?

 

[Gary]

The lost, the non-christians are not in the body of Christ which common sense tells you these will be left behind at the sound of the trump their souls are not conditioned for heaven!

Ok, so if the only people left on earth are nonbelievers, what's point of a 7 year tribulation period?
.

 

[knab70]

Then, how do all stand before the throne? What's the point of a judging time of dividing if the "separating" was already done?

Hello... Their are two Judgements one for the Christians called the Judgement Seat of Christ or the Bema and the other for the lost souls and the devil which is the white throne judgement.

(1) Judgement seat of Christ for all believers! Judged for our faithfulness in the Lord not sins..our sins are at the foot of the cross. This event take place after the rapture. Read.1 Corinthians 3: 9-15 and Romans14:10

(2) The White Throne Judgement is for the lost and the devil and his angels.
Read Rev. 20:11-15 will be judged for their sins after the 1,000 yr. Millennium.

Rich in Christ

 

[gr8grace3]

The best commentary on the bible is the bible...paperbacks are not inspired. Let God be true every man a liar. The rapture was a mystery (secret) revealed only to the apostle Paul by Jesus Christ which was passed onto the churches. Inspired scripture does not contradict doctrine will.

Many Jews were blind of the first coming of Christ in the OT.And did not "see" that In the OT it showed He was coming twice....the suffering Servant and then the King. Many did not see the First coming in the OT.

The Church was a mystery in the OT and Hidden.

The mystery is revealed and we have 2 comings in the NT. Many do not "see" the rapture in the Church. Many see the King coming and setting up His Kingdom. But,Many do not see the rapture.

2 comings in the OT and many did not see the first one.

2 comings in the NT and many do not see the first one.

 

[Kathi]

Hello... Their are two Judgements one for the Christians called the Judgement Seat of Christ or the Bema and the other for the lost souls and the devil which is the white throne judgement.

(1) Judgement seat of Christ for all believers! Judged for our faithfulness in the Lord not sins..our sins are at the foot of the cross. This event take place after the rapture. Read.1 Corinthians 3: 9-15 and Romans14:10

(2) The White Throne Judgement is for the lost and the devil and his angels.
Read Rev. 20:11-15 will be judged for their sins after the 1,000 yr. Millennium.

Rich in Christ

I am with you on this.Are you pre-trib knab?

 

[JLB]

The metaphor of the end time churches are not mentioned after Rev.3:21.We the church is taken to heaven in Rev.4 though in Rev.19:11 We the Bride (church) is back in light now ready to leave heaven to return with Christ in our white gowns (Robes) to defeat the Armies at armageddon... who are we going to bail out of trouble? none other than Israel. Who is at the aid of Israel today? Reading between the lines right here may help the mentality of believers not pre-trib.

The Judgement Period (7yr.Tribulation) known as the time of Jacobs trouble (Jewish remnant) is not the Bride of Christ because we begin our honeymoon in heaven right at the sound of the trump rapture @ 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ~Rev.4

The Church during this 7 yr. period will be with Christ which will involve three major events that must take place. (1) The Judgement Seat of Christ (2) The Great Supper of the lamb (3) Preparations made for the ride with Christ to defeat the armies of armageddon. Just to reiterate the Tribulation in scripture was never for the Gentiles Note: All humanity left behind without Christ after the event of the rapture will have to deal with the tribulation. Remember the first 3-1/2 will be temporary peace when the last half of the 7 is the Great tribulation such as the world has never seen!! Who is instructed to flea to the mountains?

I basically paraphrased the event.. so much scripture needs to be applied for due justice from the Old to New testament with that being said... I deeply believe the Body of Christ all believers will be raptured prior to the tribulation "Pre-trib".

In Christ Jesus Richard

Hi Richard,

would you take a look at a verse for me from 1 Thessalonians 4:

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Paul teaches us that the Resurrected ones and Raptured ones are caught up together.

To me, this clearly teaches that the Resurrection and Rapture can not be two separate events, but one event in we shall all be Gathered at the same time.

Now, technically the Resurrection does come first, and then the rapture afterward, however I believe it is just a moment, a twinkling of an eye of separation that will hardly be noticable.


The main point I would like for you to consider is that we shall be caught up together with them, which means the Resurrection can not be separated from the Rapture.


Thanks JLB

 

[Kathi]

Hi Richard,

would you take a look at a verse for me from 1 Thessalonians 4:

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Paul teaches us that the Resurrected ones and Raptured ones are caught up together.

To me, this clearly teaches that the Resurrection and Rapture can not be two separate events, but one event in we shall all be Gathered at the same time.

Now, technically the Resurrection does come first, and then the rapture afterward, however I believe it is just a moment, a twinkling of an eye of separation that will hardly be noticable.


The main point I would like for you to consider is that we shall be caught up together with them, which means the Resurrection can not be separated from the Rapture.
Where did knab say that there would be two resurrections?

Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

The Rapture comes after the Resurrection.


Do you believe the Resurrection is before the tribulation?

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5


Those that were faithful unto death during the tribulation who did not take the mark, are the one who are resurrected and live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

This clearly shows us the resurrection is after the tribulation.

The Rapture comes after the Resurrection.


JLB

 

[Gary]

I only see one judgment here.

Daniel 12
1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

.

 

[Kathi]

The Rapture comes after the Resurrection.


Do you believe the Resurrection is before the tribulation?

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5


Those that were faithful unto death during the tribulation who did not take the mark, are the one who are resurrected and live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

This clearly shows us the resurrection is after the tribulation.

The Rapture comes after the Resurrection.


JLB

Don't get too intense on what other people believe.If they agree with your interpretation then fine.If not give that person their space and respect of what they believe.

 

[JLB]

Don't get too intense on what other people believe.If they agree with your interpretation then fine.If not give that person their space and respect of what they believe.

Do you believe the Resurrection is before the tribulation?

 

[knab70]

I only see one judgment here.

Daniel 12
1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

.

Get to Paul's writings in the New T we are in the dispensation of Grace period . I wrote verses above

 

[JLB]

Get to Paul's writings in the New T we are in the dispensation of Grace period . I wrote verses above

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Paul teaches us that the Resurrected ones and Raptured ones are caught up together.

To me, this clearly teaches that the Resurrection and Rapture can not be two separate events, but one event in we shall all be Gathered at the same time.

 

[knab70]

Ok, so if the only people left on earth are nonbelievers, what's point of a 7 year tribulation period?
.

To reiterate from my first post.. who was the tribulation basically for? It's not for the believers in Christ cause we won't be here! but rather it's for the Jews and Gentiles that were left behind.Their will be the 144,000 undefiled jews sent along with two witnesses some believe it will be 2 of these three.. Moses, Elijah or Enoch the bible is not clear. They will be preaching salvation in Christ and will go to the 4 corners of the earth preaching to people that never heard the Gospel. Many jews today still don't believe their messiah has come yet. So the 7 yr. trib. is the time of Jacobs trouble ..their will be a remnant of Jews saved during this time along with ones that never heard the Word prior to the rapture.

 

[Kathi]

Do you believe the Resurrection is before the tribulation?

I believe that the resurrection and the rapture is before the tribulation.I do not believe that the Church will go through the tribulation.I believe that the believers bodies that have been in the gravy will be resurrected to meet their souls in heaven.I think that the Church will then be raptured.Then the tribulation.How long will the tribulation occur after the rapture???I do not know.But that is my belief.I am not going to tell others that is the only way it will happen.That is what I see when I read Scripture literally.Others have other views and that is their choice.I am prepared if it happens differently than what I believe.