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Is It Possible For A Christian To Fall From "Grace"?
- Thread starter iLOVE
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Jethro Bodine
Member
Mods? Can you help her out and point her to a thread talking about Joel Osteen's statement in an interview that some can be saved apart from Jesus?
Interesting statement you have made, here's what Strong's Concordance says about the word inspired as used in the Greek language.
theopneustos
theh-op'-nyoo-stos
From G2316 and a presumed derivative of G4154; divinely breathed in: - given by inspiration of God.
theo---pneustos
Theo in the Greek is God and pneustos comes from the primary word pneō (from which our word pneumatic is derived and pneu in French which is the word for a tire) which means to breath hard.
As I see it it's meaning is not derived from some fundamentalist domination, but comes directly from the Greek language which is the language used in the New Testament.
Makes sense to me, what do you think?
As for you question about which of the four examples you gave, ...here, you tell me.
Strong's Concordance for the word kill in Ex 20:13, ...Thou shalt not kill.
râtsach
raw-tsakh'
A primitive root; properly to dash in pieces, that is, kill (a human being), especially to murder: - put to death, kill, (man-) slay (-er), murder (-er).
Mike do you have any Bible Study aids, do you use Strong's Concordance?
In the definition of the word above, after the colon: that is how the Hebrew word râtsach is translated in the King James Bible, it is used 47 times in the Old Testament, it's the same word for: put to death, kill, man-slayer, murder and murderer, all of these terms in English from the word râtsach, but used in different nuances to explain the subtle variation in how the Hebrew language intended the reader to understand.
I hope that helps.
Crucified on Friday before the Sabbath...
...the evening and the morning were the first day
Brother, you are not reading what I wrote correctly.
Crucified on Friday before the Sabbath, He rose on the Third Day, which is the first day of the week after the Sabbath.
Thursday evening to Friday - Day 1 - Thursday night - Night 1
Friday Evening to Saturday - Day 2 - Friday Night - Night 2
Saturday evening to Sunday - Day 3 - Saturday Night - Night 3
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5
JLB
Oops, you're right, stupid me!
Thursday evening to Friday - Day 1 - Thursday night - Night 1
Friday Evening to Saturday - Day 2 - Friday Night - Night 2
Saturday evening to Sunday - Day 3 - Saturday Night - Night 3
Let me see if I can read it correctly.
Thursday evening to Friday - Day 1 - Thursday night - Night 1
That"s Thursday evening starting at sunset to Friday at sunset, is that correct?
Then Jesus was arrested Thursday night and crucified Friday morning at 9:00 AM and gave up His spirit at 3:00PM Friday afternoon and was buried before sunset Friday, is that correct?
Wait a minute, I'm confused,
if He was in the tomb Thursday night - Night 1 then that means there wasn't a Passover supper, no communion instituted, no betrayal, no High Priestly prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane, no arrest????
Then that means He was in the tomb Friday morning, Friday morning follows Thursday night doesn't it (?) then that means he couldn't be crucified on the Cross Friday afternoon for my sins because He was already in the tomb! ........Oh woe is me, my sins are not forgiven!Again, I'm trying to be light hearted, with no malice intended, but truthfully I don't have any confidence in your way of counting,
may I suggest we come at this from a different angle, since you always quote Scripture, why don't you give us a Scripture that specifically states He was crucified on Friday, I have previously posted, from both the Old and New Testaments, Scriptures that state it was Thursday.
Blessings
Oops, you're right, stupid me!
Thursday evening to Friday - Day 1 - Thursday night - Night 1
Friday Evening to Saturday - Day 2 - Friday Night - Night 2
Saturday evening to Sunday - Day 3 - Saturday Night - Night 3
Let me see if I can read it correctly.
Thursday evening to Friday - Day 1 - Thursday night - Night 1
That"s Thursday evening starting at sunset to Friday at sunset, is that correct?
Then Jesus was arrested Thursday night and crucified Friday morning at 9:00 AM and gave up His spirit at 3:00PM Friday afternoon and was buried before sunset Friday, is that correct?
Wait a minute, I'm confused,
Again, I'm trying to be light hearted, with no malice intended, but truthfully I don't have any confidence in your way of counting,
may I suggest we come at this from a different angle, since you always quote Scripture, why don't you give us a Scripture that specifically states He was crucified on Friday, I have previously posted, from both the Old and New Testaments, Scriptures that state it was Thursday.
Blessings
Friday started Thursday evening.
A day was an evening and morning.
Any part of Saturday was conceived as a night and a day, thus the phrase three days and three nights.
...So the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5
JLB
I agree with Gen 1:5, and what you are purposing would hold water if Jesus had said three days, but He went even further and was more specific when He said three nights and anyone that counts the nights between Friday and Saturday can clearly see there are only two!
On top of that you are saying Old Testament prophecy and New Testament chronology are wrong, ...have it your way, I'm through here.
bluegirl
Member
Karl, hi. Why is this issue so pressing? I don't get the importance of knowing the answer to that. Why does this make any difference to my being saved or not? Why do I need to take a stand, especially given the answer is arrived at by human logic, a faulty thing to begin with? Thank you. 
Mike S
Member
Yes, you're right. God is not inconsistent, God is manifest in His perfection. It's man who cannot record and translate without error, and man cannot thoroughly understand without interpretation.
I accept Jesus as the Son of God, and as my savior. It doesn't matter that there are inconsistencies in the way the Gospel authors record their narrative because I understand Jesus' life, ministry, death, and resurrection in the larger context of the Bible in its entirety The Gospel authors are addressing different audiences, and tailor their narratives in a way understandable to those audiences. Matthew writing for a very Jewish community goes to great lengths to establish Jesus's Jewish pedigree and constant reference to the Hebrew writings, establishing Him as a prophet and the fulfilment of Old Testament prophecies. John was writing later for a community in the later stages of disconnecting themselves from Judaism. He emphasizes Jesus's divinity over and over in every way possible describing His life and death in an overwhelmingly spiritual way. The Gospel of John is quite different from the other three Gospels in tone, and is frequently even called the "Spiritual Gospel."
bluegirl
Member
Yes, that is really good of you to point out. And I love John's gospel, well, of course - it's the gospel of love.
Karl, hi. Why is this issue so pressing? I don't get the importance of knowing the answer to that. Why does this make any difference to my being saved or not? Why do I need to take a stand, especially given the answer is arrived at by human logic, a faulty thing to begin with? Thank you.
Dear one, precious sister, when I first read your post I thought, she's right and I asked myself why, what's the use?
First may I respond to what you have inferred as human logic, it's not human logic, it's wisdom taught to God's children by the Holy Spirit 1 Jn 2:27, it's understanding Old Testament prophesy about our Lord, over 300 prophesy's about the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus, ...and he fulfilled every one of them, I humbly ask in brotherly love, ...how many of the 300 do you know and understand, this isn't a put down, it's meant as an encouragement to cause you search the Scriptures and grow in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, to study to show yourself approved so that you will not be deceived and will be able to teach others.
As to the why?
We are indebted to the Jewish scribes for their perseverance and fidelity in preserving the Word of God of the Old Testament pure and undefiled for us, you and me personally, we hold in our hands the actual Word of God as spoken and inspired by the Holy Spirit to the Old Testament writers.
Let me explain, the Jews used their alphabet to count with, i.e., a=1, b=2, c=3, etc. (using English as an example), when they would copy a scroll they added up the sum of the letters and if the sum was not the same as the original they didn't look for the error, they burned the scroll, ...it's recorded a scribe was so familiar with his work he could pass a needle through the scroll and tell us what letter had been pierced by the needle, ...a requirement for requiting new scribes.
We know from the discovery of the Qumran Scrolls in the '40s and a practically complete scroll of the Book of Isaiah, when compared to the original texts our Bibles have been translated from, they were identical.
With that in mind, we, you and me, this generation, have been passed the torch to continue to keep the Word of God pure and unadulterated for the next generation. The enemy of our souls is also the enemy of the Word of God and he has been trying to change, add to or take from what God has said since his encounter with the first human in the Garden, here is the admonition and warning Paul has left us,
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Co 11:3, 4
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Co 11:13-15
I'll let Jesus himself and the writers of the New Testament tell you why,
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:15
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. Mat 24:3, 4
And from Miletus he (Paul) sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. Act 20:17
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Act 20:27-31
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Rom 16:17
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 1Co 11:18, 19
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. 2Co 2:17
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:14
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:8
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1Ti 4:1, 2
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 1Ti 4:7
Dear one I congratulate you if you have made it this far, do you see what Paul has said to us, a Friday crucifixion is profane and an old wives' fable perpetrated and perpetuated by the RCC and is refuted by both the Old and New Testaments.
I serve my Lord and His Church to hear Him say, Well done, good and faithful servant, ...and that, my beloved sister, is my heartfelt desire for you to receive the same approbation.
Blessing in His Love
James 1:13-14 "Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, and He himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire."
Something to remember is that the world, and some religious people do not agree with the ways that some preachers teach. So be very careful of what kind of gossip or "scuttlebut" you listen to.
Dear one, I agree we are never tempted by our Heavenly Father, what I don't understand is why you tagged my post with the verses from James, maybe you could explain your thoughts on this?
Blessings
Deborah13
Member
Larry King interview when Larry asked him about Mormons. King's wife is Mormon and Mitt Romney was running for President. There was an up roar. He didn't condemn the Mormons as a cult. He clarifies this statement in a later interview with Oprah. He said that Jesus was the only way to the Lord but there were many ways to get to Jesus. She asked him if homosexuality was sin and you could see him struggle with how to say yes without offending but he said, yes he believes it is.
I agree with him when I read testimonies of people who have rejected Mormonism after many years of being in it. The Lord can work with people in all kinds of ways to lead them to Him even through other religions.
That is how I understood what he was trying to say without offending anyone. He may have been too meek in his attempt not to appear the arrogant Christian, trying to respect where they are and trust the Lord with the rest.
My opinion is that he is a very gentle and mild man and it is very hard for him to say anything that is hurtful.
Jethro Bodine
Member
It is difficult standing up for the truth among unbelievers. If you stand strong you are called arrogant and intolerant. If you waffle and compromise you are called a hypocrite. It's a no-win situation. I've had to just flat out say that to unbelievers, 'cause one thing they are not is stupid. Even they have to agree that what you say about it being a no-win situation is right.Larry King interview when Larry asked him about Mormons. King's wife is Mormon and Mitt Romney was running for President. There was an up roar. He didn't condemn the Mormons as a cult. He clarifies this statement in a later interview with Oprah. He said that Jesus was the only way to the Lord but there were many ways to get to Jesus. She asked him if homosexuality was sin and you could see him struggle with how to say yes without offending but he said, yes he believes it is.
I agree with him when I read testimonies of people who have rejected Mormonism after many years of being in it. The Lord can work with people in all kinds of ways to lead them to Him even through other religions.
That is how I understood what he was trying to say without offending anyone. He may have been too meek in his attempt not to appear the arrogant Christian, trying to respect where they are and trust the Lord with the rest.
My opinion is that he is a very gentle and mild man and it is very hard for him to say anything that is hurtful.