Those who don't pay their tithes shall end up in hell

[Jim Parker]

I think what it amounts to is, in the OT we were required to give 10% of what was ours to the Lord.

WE??? Are you an orthodox Jew? The OT law was exclusively for the Jews.

in the NT, it's all His, and we ask how much to keep.

It was always all His and always will be. We are merely stewards.
In the NT, Paul said; "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." (2Co 9:7 NIV)

I think people get hung up about tithing without realizing that everything belongs to the Lord already.

I think people get hung up about tithing because so many preachers falsely teach that Christians are required to tithe and if they don't then they are robbing God. That teaching is a lie and it causes a lot of problems for people who are struggling financially. It teaches people who should be receiving support from the church that they are sinning against God if they don't give "from their lack" and trust God to provide. Then, those Pharisaical preachers won't lift a finger to help relieve the ungodly burden they lay on the shoulders of their flock and have the unmitigated gall to tell them that if they're not prospering it's because they have sin in their lives or they don't have enough faith.
My response to such false preachers includes tar and feathers.

iakov the fool

 

[Edward]

WE??? Are you an orthodox Jew? The OT law was exclusively for the Jews.

It was always all His and always will be. We are merely stewards.
In the NT, Paul said; "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." (2Co 9:7 NIV)

I think people get hung up about tithing because so many preachers falsely teach that Christians are required to tithe and if they don't then they are robbing God. That teaching is a lie and it causes a lot of problems for people who are struggling financially. It teaches people who should be receiving support from the church that they are sinning against God if they don't give "from their lack" and trust God to provide. Then, those Pharisaical preachers won't lift a finger to help relieve the ungodly burden they lay on the shoulders of their flock and have the unmitigated gall to tell them that if they're not prospering it's because they have sin in their lives or they don't have enough faith.
My response to such false preachers includes tar and feathers.

iakov the fool

Well...are we not grafted into the vine? Are not the words of that book for all?

I agree with the rest of what you said. It is all and always has been all His, since before the foundation of the world...

 

[Brother Mike]

Pay your tithe, says a pastor.

The SDA preaches you must tithe or else. I don't know of any other mainstream denomination that preaches this.

 

[JohnDB]

The SDA preaches you must tithe or else. I don't know of any other mainstream denomination that preaches this.

Mormon Church does. But they aren't mainstream.

But those churches who mirror Saddleback's formula usually do. Voting rights are reserved for those who tithe.

 

[WIP]

Yes but if you have borrowed and you have a contract to pay back that debt at so much a week or a bill comes in that needs to be payed the debts must be payed before you tithe the increase.

God expects people to pay there debts owed and not break promises you will pay the phone or power bill by due date. Then you can freely give what's left.

Its ungodly to borrow and not pay the debt owed and give the money to someone else.

The modern system is built on debt and people are up to there neck in it just to survive so they could not even tithe, but they can donate little. You still need gas to get to work after paying a weekly mortgage and Gods expectation you put food on the table and do your duty to look after your wife and children. Or you don't pay the weekly mortgage and have no gas to get to work because you tithed and end up losing your house and job living on the streets out of trash bins why the church and pastor you tithed is living in pure luxury worth millions from everyone's cash.

Donation churches are fine. Tithe churches are crooked.

Spending beyond one's means and living a life of luxury on borrowed money is ungodly.

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21 NKJV

Borrowing money "just to survive" doesn't pencil out. If one doesn't have the money to survive to begin with, how can they possibly be able to repay with interest? Borrowing money without repaying is stealing.

The wicked borrows and does not repay,
But the righteous shows mercy and gives. Psalm 37:21 NKJV

The rich rules over the poor,
And the borrower is servant to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 NKJV

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. Romans 13:8 NKJV

 

[WIP]

What people have left after a budget they can freely give but some might have nothing.

For example if someone struggling earns 500 in the hand a week the church expects 50, but after 250 rent and 50 gas to get to work, and 100 food to feed the wife and kids for a week that's already 500 gone. How on earth can a filthy rich tithe church expect someone on a 500 a week wage to pay 50 tithe?. That's just a random example but semi relevant. Add in other bills like power and maybe debt getting a new reliable car on credit to get to work and get the family around. Who knows. They might be able to give 20 a week donation but not compulsory tithe.

If the reason they have nothing is because they are spending beyond their means and living on credit so they can enjoy "the good life" then I have little compassion for their situation. Society today pushes for this. We have this entitlement mentality that says we deserve everything we can manage to get even if it means putting it back on the rest of society. People run up credit card debt with reckless abandon and then expect society to bale them out when they get into financial trouble.

 

[WIP]

That's just a solo worker on min wage trying to supporta family. I guess someone on welfare struggles more. I do not believe the average family has spare cash each week.

I agree with you but not for the same reason. The average family is not living in dire straits because of a lacking but rather because of greed and excessive spending. We have it in our brain that we deserve to have the good things life has to offer without having to actually work to get there. We are spoiled and greedy.

 

[smaller]

God, at least in my own mind, has in the past blessed me in poverty and also cursed me in riches. And vice versa, blessing me in riches and cursing me in poverty. It seems to be in constant cycle and rotation.

Over time I think I've learned that it is much more of a blessing to not have to relate to God in Christ through the almighty dollar supposedly proving our worth, or not. That is just a pitiful way to try to relate to God in Christ. But when a person has their backs up against the wall on either side of the proverbial coin, we tend to go to Him in a hurry, don't we?

Where I grew up the majority of the masses are quite proud in their poverty and peasantry. Hard work and low pay seems to be a requirement amongst them, as well as a general dislike and much grumbling against the "rich."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The SDA preaches you must tithe or else. I don't know of any other mainstream denomination that preaches this.

Church of God.
Maybe this can read give 10% or never be a member in good standing, therefore, never be right with God.
Southern Baptist if they choose to follow the Southern Baptist Convention

 

[JohnDB]

Church of God.
Maybe this can read give 10% or never be a member in good standing, therefore, never be right with God.
Southern Baptist if they choose to follow the Southern Baptist Convention

Umm
It's a convention and not an association.
There is nothing binding any member church to do or be anything or pay anything. The second you do you're on the outs with the convention. The cooperative program is voluntary...so is the Mission giving. Many member churches give only a token amount. Some give half all receipts.

It's completely up to the different churches and their leadership as to what they do with the money. There is no heirchical leadership to the SBC. And for this reason alone it still stands as the only conservative "denomination" left.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Umm
It's a convention and not an association.
There is nothing binding any member church to do or be anything or pay anything. The second you do you're on the outs with the convention. The cooperative program is voluntary...so is the Mission giving. Many member churches give only a token amount. Some give half all receipts.

It's completely up to the different churches and their leadership as to what they do with the money. There is no heirchical leadership to the SBC. And for this reason alone it still stands as the only conservative "denomination" left.

Conservative?
What does that mean?
Is that good or bad?

 

[JohnDB]

Conservative?
What does that mean?
Is that good or bad?

Conservative is a good thing.
It means that they are so strict that they won't allow any leader in the church to consume any form of adult beverage and frown heavily on cough syrup.
They are currently in a tizzy about some of the members raising hands during singing.

Co-ed adult classes are something of a novelty here. Definitely something that the children don't do unless in the nursery.

Now this conservative is just my church... others are a bit more tolerant. They have been having co-ed classes for a while now even for the kids. Alcohol is still a no-no though.

Speaking in tongues is not done.
Calvinism is only allowed in code speech because....it's an identifier...and SBC is by definition undefinable.

 

[Corn Pop]

At least non tithers can fix there car when it breaks down. I mean after rent, food, gas, people usually have a bit left over so they can donate a little and save a little. With compulsory tithe that's all cash gone, and when something like vehicle registration, doctors, or a vehicle breaks down and unexpected bills come in the multi million dollar tithe pastor and church covered in gold sure ain't going to help.

I think people are brainwashed if they think its not christian to save a little money, and they must give all there cash to the church, because when your car breaks down its not magically just going to be fixed by God. And if you can't service or fix your car you can't get to work.

 

[smaller]

At least non tithers can fix there car when it breaks down. I mean after rent, food, gas, people usually have a bit left over so they can donate a little and save a little. With compulsory tithe that's all cash gone, and when something like vehicle registration, doctors, or a vehicle breaks down and unexpected bills come in the multi million dollar tithe pastor and church covered in gold sure ain't going to help.

I think people are brainwashed if they think its not christian to save a little money, and they must give all there cash to the church, because when your car breaks down its not magically just going to be fixed by God. And if you can't service or fix your car you can't get to work, and I'd you can't get to work you can't feed the family.

God cured me on 'tithing' when I was supporting 11 people not counting myself including 4 kids in college simultaneously, my parents, a brother, and servicing a huge debt load. I am SO glad God got me though it all. It was tremendous pressure on me.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 

[Corn Pop]

If I get a pay rise of 1 dollar is that the increase?, because I'm more than happy to tithe 10% of the increase and give 4 dolla a week for 40 hours work.

 

[JohnDB]

At least non tithers can fix there car when it breaks down. I mean after rent, food, gas, people usually have a bit left over so they can donate a little and save a little. With compulsory tithe that's all cash gone, and when something like vehicle registration, doctors, or a vehicle breaks down and unexpected bills come in the multi million dollar tithe pastor and church covered in gold sure ain't going to help.

I think people are brainwashed if they think its not christian to save a little money, and they must give all there cash to the church, because when your car breaks down its not magically just going to be fixed by God. And if you can't service or fix your car you can't get to work, and I'd you can't get to work you can't feed the family.

Umm
Not everyone fits what you are saying. I've made barely above minimum wage and found creative ways to save money, make extra money, and give great gifts.

Granted it wasn't a lot but I worked hard to make sure that I didn't consume all I made.
Because it's important to me to give. Sure there were weeks when I was exhausted and slowly starving but giving made me happier than being well fed. And the instances of miraculous money appearing as well as great meals every so often kept happening with no rhyme or reason.

So much so that I simply stopped worrying about it and just worked ALL I could and spent as I needed to.

 

[Corn Pop]

I have always said giving is good.

I'm sure there is farmers that go to church, do you think the tithe church would accept 10% increase of there flocks and crops.

It would be hilarious if a farmer took 100 cows into a church and said here is your tithe, it was not to far to travel so i didn't need to exchange them for cash.

 

[turnorburn]

And to think how things have changed... makes you wonder-don't it...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

As for tithing...

II Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

 

[Corn Pop]

Last year a farmers cows produced 20,000 gallons of milk, this year he got 30,000 gallons of milk. That's a 10,000 increase blessed by God Most High. He needs to take 10% of the increase, that is 1,000 gallons of milk, to church next week.

 

[turnorburn]

Is this the definition of New Testament tithing?

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.