Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation

[reba]

CFnet is first a Christian site. We are open to different denominations , differing theologies that fall within the different historical views of Christianty...


As Christians we are not required to think EXACTLY like the other guy... We all walk with the same Lord... He opens our eyes to His Word as He sees fit... not always as we, think, it should be. We are not the other guy's Holy Spirit.... Condemnation does not come from the brethern . Can we, should we, learn from one another absolutely.


Because we don't all see this or that the same does not always mean someone is WRONG.

Simply at a different spot in His path...


As a parent i so want my kids to get along , to be friends, while not expecting them to think alike... This paragraph of our Terms of Service has been a huge help to me over the years...


2.4....... Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

Do not reply to this post in this thread

 

[ezra]

there is no doubt in my mind that there is a true gift of tongues ..i have never denied this...see the problem and i keep trying to a dress is the baptism of the spirit . no place i find in scripture says it is speaking in tongues. i am well aware of the denoms who teach it is.. i do not mock them nor be little those who do nor have i ever spoke to some one in a manner of correctness who has.
i know of a community revival . what was on a southern baptist church parking lot. a person was praying in tongues the pastor told him he could not be doing this... several errors in both parties .
even though it being community it was on a baptist property. many baptist do not believe in tongues.. so it would have been wiser to either refrain or pray in a low tone with tongues... the pastor should have refrained from saying anything . the AOG ministers i know preach in a baptist Church .but never speak in tongues out loud but once gain the post is not about speaking in tongues .
i have used scripture there are many things i can prove beyond a shadow of doubt.. tongues is one of them they are in scripture . when they ceased or will cease i do not know..
it does appear in 1 cor 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. they will be no longer needed. imo the perfect is come would be Christ . the last thing i want is a my doctrine can beat your doctrine up debate . we are all in the Body of Christ and one thing that will not be in heaven in a denominational name . so if your name tag is more superior than your bro or sister .your name tag will either fall off going up or burn off going down... so let us all do as jesus said strive to enter in at the straight gate

 

[Paoli S.]

It's a sad situation in our churches today.
(Not all of them but many.)
Suppose I went out and asked 100 pastors from different denominations and tested them on were the gifts of the Spirit are mentioned in the Bible. We probably lose 75 of them right then. And if I would ask these pastors of different denominations to list the 9 gifts, we lose 20 more of them. We have only 5 left. And if I gave them 10 minutes to write the definition of each of the nine gifts and list how they operate, we might possibly have two or three left. God works for the Body through the knowledge of the Pastor. Usually people believe what is preached in church. (Because many people don't read their Bibles.) Go to a Baptist church and you will believe what they preach. Go to a Catholic Church and you believe the priest. Etc Etc Sturdy the Word of God. He says: "I change not". Mal. 3:6 The only two gifts of the Spirit that did not operate in the Old Testament are "tongues" and "interpretation of tongues". They came into being after the Day of Pentecost, when tongues visited the 120 in the upper room. And Jesus said He's the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[ezra]

It's a sad situation in our churches today.
(Not all of them but many.)
Suppose I went out and asked 100 pastors from different denominations and tested them on were the gifts of the Spirit are mentioned in the Bible. We probably lose 75 of them right then. And if I would ask these pastors of different denominations to list the 9 gifts, we lose 20 more of them. We have only 5 left. And if I gave them 10 minutes to write the definition of each of the nine gifts and list how they operate, we might possibly have two or three left. God works for the Body through the knowledge of the Pastor. Usually people believe what is preached in church. (Because many people don't read their Bibles.) Go to a Baptist church and you will believe what they preach. Go to a Catholic Church and you believe the priest. Etc Etc Sturdy the Word of God. He says: "I change not". Mal. 3:6 The only two gifts of the Spirit that did not operate in the Old Testament are "tongues" and "interpretation of tongues". They came into being after the Day of Pentecost, when tongues visited the 120 in the upper room. And Jesus said He's the same yesterday, today and forever.

your dealing with interpolations your seem more concerned over the gifts (they are important) how concerned are you over the church being revived and seeing souls saved ?

 

[Paoli S.]

Without the Gifts of the Holy Spirit there will not be revival.
Of course I am concerned about what you mention.
The 9 gifts of the Spirit are the answer to the world';s problems .
Every church should have the 9 gifts in operation.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Without the Gifts of the Holy Spirit there will not be revival.
Of course I am concerned about what you mention.
The 9 gifts of the Spirit are the answer to the world';s problems .
Every church should have the 9 gifts in operation.

hello Paoli, dirtfarmer here

Why do you think the true church, the body of Christ needs revival? what have they lost that needs to be brought back to life?

 

[Sister Christian]

Is there Scripture to answer this?

Acts 2? Verse 17?

 

[ezra]

The 9 gifts of the Spirit are the answer to the world';s problems .
Every church should have the 9 gifts in operation.

what gift do you think is the most important

1. The Word of Knowledge 2. The Word of Wisdom 3. The Gift of Prophecy
4. The Gift of Faith 5. The Gifts of Healings 6. The Working of Miracles
7. The Discerning of Spirits 8. Different Kinds of Tongues 9. The Interpretation of Tongues there are links with each of these gifts that has comments . i just did quick search copied pasted them. which the comments are not the important thing . the gifts come through the Holy Spirit,the anointing .the spirit is to move freely like the wind we can not see it. but we can see the effects . no man can make anything happen . but we are off topic from the baptism of the spirit. which takes place with the spiritual birth Born of the spirit .
at our physical birth we get our parents traits . so when we get saved God gives us His Holy Spirit and from there we grow in the Grace and knowledge . it takes time to mature

 

[FreeGrace]

1Genesis said: ↑
If we are in relationship with the Father wouldn't each one of us have experienced a unique marker the Father designed for us? In order to give us evidence of our Holy Spirit baptism?

To which I asked:
"Is there Scripture to answer this?"

Acts 2? Verse 17?

This is the verse:
“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

Do you agree that the unique marker mentioned by 1Genesis is the universal indwelling of the Holy Spirit on all believers during the church age?

What is interesting is that this verse says nothing about tongues. It does mention prophesy, visions and dreams.

 

[Paoli S.]

By Dirtfarmer: Why do you think the true church, the body of Christ needs revival? what have they lost that needs to be brought back to life?

My answer to this question is this:

Because most of the modern church has lost it's first love.

Revival starts by fasting and prayer.
Revival will not start in a luke warm church.
We all know what Christ said about being "lukewarm".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ezra: Quote: "but we are off topic from the baptism of the spirit. which takes place with the spiritual birth Born of the spirit . "

By Me: "We are BORN OF the Spirit when we become Christians AFTER the Spirit draws us to Christ.


Baptism in the Holy Spirit follows later as you can find at several occasions in the New Testament. But I'm done with discussing this issue."

 

[ezra]

Without the Gifts of the Holy Spirit there will not be revival.
Of course I am concerned about what you mention.
The 9 gifts of the Spirit are the answer to the world';s problems .
Every church should have the 9 gifts in operation.

if the Holy Spirit is there the gifts will be.not all have same gift

 

[Paoli S.]

No not all have the same gift.
I agree on that one.

 

[ezra]

No not all have the same gift.
I agree on that one.

this is a good start in finding agreements
thast why i say all will not speak in tongues

 

[Paoli S.]

True, the ones not baptized with the Holy Spirit don't speak with other tongues.

 

[Sister Christian]

1Genesis said: ↑
If we are in relationship with the Father wouldn't each one of us have experienced a unique marker the Father designed for us? In order to give us evidence of our Holy Spirit baptism?

To which I asked:
"Is there Scripture to answer this?"

This is the verse:
“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

Do you agree that the unique marker mentioned by 1Genesis is the universal indwelling of the Holy Spirit on all believers during the church age?

What is interesting is that this verse says nothing about tongues. It does mention prophesy, visions and dreams.

I am not unfamiliar with the course of our discussion.
Do you believe that verse in first Genesis is telling us Father's Holy Spirit will bestow all those gifts upon every believer?
Of course the faithful who are called to Christ are to be indwelt by God's Holy Spirit. He said this would be and thus it is so.
That tongues are not mentioned in Genesis 1 means Acts 2's account of Pentecost is incorrect or false?

 

[ezra]

True, the ones not baptized with the Holy Spirit don't speak with other tongues.

see there is our gray area you may call it baptism of the spirit... but no place in scripture does it say its speaking in tongues .that has been my point all a long . i have read the scriptures on tongues they are there, as per cease to be honest it does make me wonder.. but it does not say when or where . i know everyone has a theory but in my case i have to see scripture expressly say . that is where i stand yes i have read the book of acts and Corinthians. but still it does not say the baptism of the spirit is tongues..i have been straight up with you and honest . yes i have done reading upon it the pro for it the con against it.. i have been in services where many was speaking in tongues at the same time.. seen a guy take of running and hit the way then i been in services that went quite and tongues came in and the interpretation followed . yes many questions but i feel the holy spirit will guide what i need to know,,

 

[Paoli S.]

I am aware that tongues are being misused in some churches.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul asked them: “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” He would not have asked them that unless there was a possibility that they had not been filled with the Holy Spirit. In fact, when Paul told them of Jesus and they received Him into their hearts and were baptized in water, they still had not been filled with the Holy Spirit. They were not baptised in the Holy Spirit until Paul laid his hands on them, just as Peter and John did with new Christians in Samaria.

In other words they were not baptized with the holy Spirit when they became Christians.

Anyhow, we'r not going to agree on this issue by the looks of it.
So, I will leave it at this.

 

[Paoli S.]

By sister Christian: That tongues are not mentioned in Genesis 1 means Acts 2's account of Pentecost is incorrect or false?

There are no false statements in the Word of God.

 

[FreeGrace]

True, the ones not baptized with the Holy Spirit don't speak with other tongues.

Since it seems from your comment here that the bapatism with the Holy Spirit is special; only some get it. So, from Scripture, could you show us the criteria for how one receives this baptism with the Holy Spirit. Thanks.

 

[dirtfarmer]

By Dirtfarmer: Why do you think the true church, the body of Christ needs revival? what have they lost that needs to be brought back to life?

My answer to this question is this:

Because most of the modern church has lost it's first love.

Revival starts by fasting and prayer.
Revival will not start in a luke warm church.
We all know what Christ said about being "lukewarm".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ezra: Quote: "but we are off topic from the baptism of the spirit. which takes place with the spiritual birth Born of the spirit . "

By Me: "We are BORN OF the Spirit when we become Christians AFTER the Spirit draws us to Christ.


Baptism in the Holy Spirit follows later as you can find at several occasions in the New Testament. But I'm done with discussing this issue."

hello Paoli, dirtfarmer here

What you call "modern church", is it 4 walls and a roof with a steeple? If so, that is not the true church.