Bible Study Defining Biblical Terms

[eddif]

Of course.

Does “of course” just totally negate my point? Are you just stomping my thoughts?
And
Really I am not offended if that is the case. What I will do is re-double my effort to make sure that I lengthen (re-double) the point of present day kingdom living.

Romans 7:25 makes the version of kingdom living I present different from some versions.
The flesh I live in does not have dominion over my life. I sin regretfully. If I ( not in a lukewarm way) seek first the kingdom of God Spiritual Gifts can manifest at times. I do not have to wait for judgement day. If we are not in the kingdom now, I might as well not type another word on this web site.

If a person lives a sin dominated life depending on works of the flesh for salvation, then I might try and answer the following.

If they had already inherited the kingdom of God, then why would he warn them of not inheriting the kingdom of God, by practicing the works of the flesh.

Ok this will be tough for me to explain. This is an area where the battle inside me keeps me out of the garden at times.

If we just choose to abandon the daily crucifiction of our flesh and allow the practice of the works of the flesh to dominate our life (have dominion), then our practice of spiritual gifts will diminish / go away / be unfruitful (?).

There are folks I consider saved that at judgement may enter heaven by their belief in Christ Jesus, but in this lifetime miss the opportunity to let the Holy Spirit use them. He works in us to will and do of his good pleasure (not I / we but Christ who works in us). He works if we permit the rod and staff to operate.

Did I say anything? Did I use enough scripture verses?

Again the disciples entered the kingdom and became apostles. Do we enter the same kingdom today? I believe we can. Not in an ego driven way, but in a humble led way. Not without the help of other folks either.

eddif

 

[JLB]

Does “of course” just totally negate my point? Are you just stomping my thoughts?

Of course means I agree with you.

 

[JLB]

He works if we permit the rod and staff to operate.

Agreed.

 

[JLB]

Again the disciples entered the kingdom and became apostles. Do we enter the same kingdom today? I believe we can. Not in an ego driven way, but in a humble led way. Not without the help of other folks either.

Please post the scripture you are referring to, so I understand the context of what you are saying

 

[eddif]

Please post the scripture you are referring to, so I understand the context of what you are saying

This will be tough.
Acts 2:15 KJV
For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 5:15 KJV
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

This seems like a Peter example day, but who else got a (get thee behind me Satan).
So Peter has an encounter.

Acts 10:9 KJV
On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

And a vision starts
........

Acts 6:8 KJV
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

And Stephen was not an apostle,
Acts 6:2 KJV
Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

We live in an age of pretended miracles, but the real still happens. Fake yes. Real yes.

If I am able to make a valid point, that gets pretty close to a miracle. I joke about not chewing gum and walking at the same time, but I actually miss some functionality (undefined).

We are talking about disciples that fled at the crucifiction, showed unbelief, and still got better. Wonderful? No. The circumcism party led some astray.

Today Romans 7:25 still exists.

Redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

This will be tough.
Acts 2:15 KJV
For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 5:15 KJV
Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

This seems like a Peter example day, but who else got a (get thee behind me Satan).
So Peter has an encounter.

Acts 10:9 KJV
On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

And a vision starts
........

Acts 6:8 KJV
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

And Stephen was not an apostle,
Acts 6:2 KJV
Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

We live in an age of pretended miracles, but the real still happens. Fake yes. Real yes.

If I am able to make a valid point, that gets pretty close to a miracle. I joke about not chewing gum and walking at the same time, but I actually miss some functionality (undefined).

We are talking about disciples that fled at the crucifiction, showed unbelief, and still got better. Wonderful? No. The circumcism party led some astray.

Today Romans 7:25 still exists.

Redneck
eddif

I appreciate your insight, and your thoughtful perspective of the scriptures.

I have seen some really awesome things come from you concerning biblical revelation.


However, I was referring to a specific statement you made from post # 41 which said -

Again the disciples entered the kingdom and became apostles. Do we enter the same kingdom today? I believe we can. Not in an ego driven way, but in a humble led way. Not without the help of other folks either.

to which I replied -

Please post the scripture you are referring to, so I understand the context of what you are saying

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just wanting to know what context you are referring to concerning entering the kingdom of God.


I don't see the phrase entering the kingdom of God mentioned in any of the scriptures you quoted.


Here are my examples:


21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” Acts 14:21-22

• exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

A couple of things about this verse I would like to point out.


First of all, Paul exhorted these disciples of Jesus Christ that they must through many tribulations, enter the kingdom of God, which refers to some time in the future, since it is by these very tribulations, that they would experience throughout their life, are the means by which they will enter the kingdom of God.

Paul is plainly referring to that Day, when we stand before the Lord to be Judged according to our deeds, and hear one of two things from Him:

1. ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
   
2. ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jesus this to His disciples.

And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— Mark 9:47

• It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—

JLB

 

[JLB]

If a person lives a sin dominated life depending on works of the flesh for salvation, then I might try and answer the following.

There are two ways for the born again, Christian to live their life:

• According to the flesh
• According to the Spirit

 

[eddif]

There are two ways for the born again, Christian to live their life:

• According to the flesh
• According to the Spirit

I tend to agree if we have
Romans 7:25 in the mix.

Salvation is only through Jesus though. The flesh will be of no profit.

eddif

 

[Randy]

I would suggest the Bible defined very simply the Kingdom of God

Jesus seemed to associate the kingdom of God with where the Holy Spirit dwells. And since Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit no one enters the Kingdom of God except by Him.

Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”c
c: or with in you

 

[JLB]

I tend to agree if we have
Romans 7:25 in the mix.

Salvation is only through Jesus though. The flesh will be of no profit.

eddif

I don’t understand your statement.

Of course salvation is only through Jesus Christ.

I plainly stated that -

There are two ways for the born again, Christian to live their life:

• According to the flesh
• According to the Spirit

The born again, Spirit empowered Christian has a choice.

We can live our lives

• According to the flesh

Or

• According to the Spirit

Those who live according to the flesh, in which they practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus said it this way -


And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— Mark 9:47



JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

There are two ways for the born again, Christian to live their life:

• According to the flesh
• According to the Spirit

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

How is it possible for a person that has died to self and has been made alive in Christ live "according to the flesh". It is impossible for the carnal mind to be subject to the law of God because it has died. It no longer is alive in believers. The only place that a carnal mind operates is in those that have never been saved( died to self).

Romans 5:20-21 " Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound, But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: that as hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[JLB]

How is it possible for a person that has died to self and has been made alive in Christ live "according to the flesh".

It’s seems that you are insinuating that when a person is born again, that they have somehow “automatically” died to self.

The way to follow Christ is to obey His command to take up your cross daily, and to come after Me.

Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.
Luke 9:23

Paul said it this way -

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

It’s up to each of us to put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the power of the Holy Spirit... daily.


JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

It’s seems that you are insinuating that when a person is born again, that they have somehow “automatically” died to self.

The way to follow Christ is to obey His command to take up your cross daily, and to come after Me.

Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.
Luke 9:23

Paul said it this way -

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

It’s up to each of us to put to death the deeds of the flesh, by the power of the Holy Spirit... daily.


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

When a person is born physically the are born with a spirit( small s), but that spirit does not acknowledge God. Therefore it is considered dead and has no life but is subject to the soul of man which is adverse to anything that has to do with God. When we are born by the Spirit(capital S) he, the Spirit(capital S), witnesses to our spirit(small s) that we are the children of God- Romans 8:16.

The dying to self is the dividing our spirit from our soul and made alive to the Spirit of God

 

[JLB]

When a person is born physically the are born with a spirit( small s), but that spirit does not acknowledge God. Therefore it is considered dead and has no life but is subject to the soul of man which is adverse to anything that has to do with God. When we are born by the Spirit(capital S) he, the Spirit(capital S), witnesses to our spirit(small s) that we are the children of God- Romans 8:16.

Amen.

When we are born again, by the Spirit old things have passed away, and all things have become new.

From there we move on to being baptized in water.

Then from there baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The born again Christian has a new nature, that is empowered by the Holy Spirit, to reign and rule in dominion over the sin that dwells in our mortal body, or flesh.


This means we have the power, to put to death, or mortify the sinful deeds of the flesh, so that we walk, or live our lives according to the Spirit who dwells within our heart, rather than living our lives to express or practice the works of the flesh.


Paul said the answer to this issue is to walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Walking in the Spirit, which is to say, walking according to the Spirit, walking in truth, walking in the light, are all ways of saying the same thing.

Living our lives by expressing the righteous life of Jesus Christ, who dwells within us, rather than expressing the lustful desires of the flesh.


Peter teaches us we have been given everything we need for living godly and having eternal life, however we are to do some things with what we have been given as any steward who is faithful will both want to do and do.


2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:2-11

• But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

We are called to, with all diligence to: add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.


Only the born again, Spirit empowered Christian has the power or authority or right to do these things.


Jesus said it this way -

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

• to them gave he power to become the sons of God

To become, denotes a process.



JLB

 

[eddif]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

When a person is born physically the are born with a spirit( small s), but that spirit does not acknowledge God. Therefore it is considered dead and has no life but is subject to the soul of man which is adverse to anything that has to do with God. When we are born by the Spirit(capital S) he, the Spirit(capital S), witnesses to our spirit(small s) that we are the children of God- Romans 8:16.

The dying to self is the dividing our spirit from our soul and made alive to the Spirit of God

God is still speaking today.
https://www.growinggenerations.com/resources-for-egg-donors/are-you-born-with-all-of-your-eggs/

Luke 1:15

Normally born with potential? When we are overshadowed?

eddif

 

[JLB]

God is still speaking today.
https://www.growinggenerations.com/resources-for-egg-donors/are-you-born-with-all-of-your-eggs/

Luke 1:15

Normally born with potential? When we are overshadowed?

eddif

Yes, still speaking today.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Amen.

When we are born again, by the Spirit old things have passed away, and all things have become new.

From there we move on to being baptized in water.

Then from there baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The born again Christian has a new nature, that is empowered by the Holy Spirit, to reign and rule in dominion over the sin that dwells in our mortal body, or flesh.


This means we have the power, to put to death, or mortify the sinful deeds of the flesh, so that we walk, or live our lives according to the Spirit who dwells within our heart, rather than living our lives to express or practice the works of the flesh.


Paul said the answer to this issue is to walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Walking in the Spirit, which is to say, walking according to the Spirit, walking in truth, walking in the light, are all ways of saying the same thing.

Living our lives by expressing the righteous life of Jesus Christ, who dwells within us, rather than expressing the lustful desires of the flesh.


Peter teaches us we have been given everything we need for living godly and having eternal life, however we are to do some things with what we have been given as any steward who is faithful will both want to do and do.


2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:2-11

• But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

We are called to, with all diligence to: add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.


Only the born again, Spirit empowered Christian has the power or authority or right to do these things.


Jesus said it this way -

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

• to them gave he power to become the sons of God

To become, denotes a process.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Baptism with water has nothing to do with salvation, it is work of the flesh. We have discussed this before and there is no use in rehashing those conversations

The power to become sons of God is sanctification not justification. Justification is an act of the Spirit that places us in the body of Christ. Sanctification is different from justification and is a continual process.

You can quote scripture from the gospels but that doesn't change the fact of God's grace that was revealed to Paul about the believer being secure in Christ eternally.

 

[reba]

Lets not go to the 2000 year old battle guys

 

[JLB]

Baptism with water has nothing to do with salvation, it is work of the flesh.

Baptism in water is not a work of the flesh.

Works of the flesh refers to sin.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,

However, baptism is not what we are discussing.

If you believe baptism in water has nothing to do with salvation then start a thread about it.




JLB

 

[JLB]

The power to become sons of God is sanctification not justification. Justification is an act of the Spirit that places us in the body of Christ. Sanctification is different from justification and is a continual process.

That could be a good topic for discussion.

The point I was making is: believing starts the process of becoming sons of God.


JLB