Senior
Member
Well, it certainly sounds to me that ...
Paul doesn't put a lot of importance on water baptism.
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the security of our salvation
- Thread starter ezra
- Start date
Paul doesn't put a lot of importance on water baptism.
Paul doesn’t want to make followers of Paul, but followers of Christ.
That is the context.
Paul is not minimizing the importance of baptism, but the point of what he said was he wanted unity, that comes from following Christ, not following man.
Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. 1 Corinthians 1:12-17
JLB
Not at all, just that you seem to have taken it upon yourself to speak on behalf of others.
If you have forgotten that love covers a multitude of sins, then just simply repent, in humility and don’t project your shortcomings on others.
That is presumption.
JLB
what if we fail to do this after the holy spirit is leading us to we refuse -------rebellion--which is the same as ???????? witchcraft
Yes rebellion is as witchcraft.
JLB
Whoever has been given the authority to pastor His sheep, and is responsible for them.
JLB
stovebolts
Member
Yes, I agree with what you've written. But I want to broaden the discussion if permitted.
What I want to parse is how one gets lost.
1. They dont know the truth, but are seeking the truth. This assumes an infant knowledge of Christ.
2. They know the truth, but willfully wander from it and get lost in sin. This assumes some maturity in the faith.
I believe salvation includes sanctification, and this is related to discipleship. That means we walk as Jesus walked. We pattern our behaviors after Jesus where applicipble. (I dont think any of us will be turning water into wine anytime soon, but if you can, let me know and I'll head over to your place lol).
Jusus tells a parable of seed spread on four different soils and I believe that parable speaks to discipleship. What I think the modern church gets wrong is the idea that bringing people to church is the same as dicipleship.
Peter walked with Jesus for 3 years and didnt really know Jesus until the resurection. When Jesus was crucified, Peter even denied him 3 times to save his own skin. Why? Because Peter was lost... all 12 were confused and went back to their lives. They didnt understand...it didnt make since to them what had just happened.
There are times in our life when we can find ourselves in that same situation and that's usually when God does his best work in us because just like the 12, Jesus came back and found them, and we have assurance of that.
But the church doesnt always teach that, nor does it participate in finding the lost because it's easier to write them off as lost and leave them to their own distruction.... and we wonder why their hearts become hardened and they fall away.
I believe it is our role as the church to be the hands and feet of Jesus and create diciples, not simply believers.
What I want to parse is how one gets lost.
1. They dont know the truth, but are seeking the truth. This assumes an infant knowledge of Christ.
2. They know the truth, but willfully wander from it and get lost in sin. This assumes some maturity in the faith.
I believe salvation includes sanctification, and this is related to discipleship. That means we walk as Jesus walked. We pattern our behaviors after Jesus where applicipble. (I dont think any of us will be turning water into wine anytime soon, but if you can, let me know and I'll head over to your place lol).
Jusus tells a parable of seed spread on four different soils and I believe that parable speaks to discipleship. What I think the modern church gets wrong is the idea that bringing people to church is the same as dicipleship.
Peter walked with Jesus for 3 years and didnt really know Jesus until the resurection. When Jesus was crucified, Peter even denied him 3 times to save his own skin. Why? Because Peter was lost... all 12 were confused and went back to their lives. They didnt understand...it didnt make since to them what had just happened.
There are times in our life when we can find ourselves in that same situation and that's usually when God does his best work in us because just like the 12, Jesus came back and found them, and we have assurance of that.
But the church doesnt always teach that, nor does it participate in finding the lost because it's easier to write them off as lost and leave them to their own distruction.... and we wonder why their hearts become hardened and they fall away.
I believe it is our role as the church to be the hands and feet of Jesus and create diciples, not simply believers.
stovebolts
Member
I dont think he is as hardcore as you think.
ezra
Member
just call me peter as soon as he walks on water i will retract my statement
From post # 50 -
You are claiming it is Jesus who goes after the lost sheep.
If you want to play words games and talk in circles, then please find someone else to do this with.
If you are truly interested in seeing harmony in this this Forum Community over foundational doctrines, then please refer to what the language of the scriptures say.
Again, please point out where these following passages indicate that Jesus Christ, who is seated in heaven, and is the One who does the searching for people who have wandered away from Him and become lost.
What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7
Jesus is teaching His disciples, the Church, what to do if one of His sheep should go astray, and how it pleases heaven if they should repent
Matthew goes into more detail about how a person is to be restored, as well as the principle of forgiveness for this restoration to take place.
“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17
- “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
2. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
3. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
James says it this way -
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
A brother who wanders from the truth, is a sinner in need of repentance, or he will perish.
JLB
ezra
Member
there are many things today the modern church is missing we bring them into the church so they can be disciples .the real work is out side the church .".great post "
Sorry bro, they are not my beliefs, but the teachings of Christ, that I have chosen to believe.
Believing and obeying these teachings of Christ, is how we grow, mature and are transformed, as well as healed from a backsliding lifestyle. (Speaking for myself)
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5
JLB
stovebolts
Member
Speaking of love...
1 Corinthians 13:7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
it is easy to become blinded from things that are right in front of our eyes when we refuse to look for them.
Reconcilliation is always possible when one abides in Gods commands.
stovebolts
Member