CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[Cooper]

I'll tell you the truth Cooper,
I understand modulism more.
It doesn't even seem wrong to me, but we don't have the brain power the early theologians did.

The below is from Wikipedia.
Modulism and the Trinity, Trinitariansim, are at odds with each other.

If you find anything easier to understand, you could post it.
I'd start a thread on this but there have been so many and nothing ever gets accomplished.

Modalistic Monarchianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, I have problems with the way trinitarianism is explained in the diagram. They say the father is not the son, the son is not the Holy Spirit etc, whereas I think to apply the word 'not' to the Almighty is inappropriate. God is all in all.
I will look forward to the thread, but really I think I have expressed my view already.

Added. I would say Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply three titles. I'm not oneness either.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, I have problems with the way trinitarianism is explained in the diagram. They say the father is not the son, the son is not the Holy Spirit etc, whereas I think to apply the word 'not' to the Almighty is inappropriate, but there we are.
I will look forward to the thread, but really I think I have expressed my view already.

Added. I would say Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply three titles. I'm not oneness either.
.

They are 3 titles...right and good statement.
That would be, though, like your undercover boss.

The problem here is that they DO each have their individual work to do.
For instance, the Father did not go to the cross.
So that seems to really separate them even though they are one.

No thread. They never amount to anything except some statements that Jesus is not God.

 

[Cooper]

They are 3 titles...right and good statement.
That would be, though, like your undercover boss.

The problem here is that they DO each have their individual work to do.
For instance, the Father did not go to the cross.
So that seems to really separate them even though they are one.

No thread. They never amount to anything except some statements that Jesus is not God.

Well the Father was in the Son. The Son did what the Father did and the Father did what the Son did. The One God made visible. This seems to satisfy most people.

Henry Ford was visible in John Doe likewise. One did the physical work, the other had his duties elsewhere. They were one. Only the name was different. Harry Webb was Cliff Richard they are one.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well the Father was in the Son. The Son did what the Father did and the Father did what the Son did. The One God made visible. This seems to satisfy most people.

Henry Ford was visible in John Doe likewise. One did the physical work, the other had his duties elsewhere. They were one. Only the name was different. Harry Webb was Cliff Richard they are one.
.

We don't have to understand the Trinity 100% in order to be Trinitarians.
The bible uses the word GODHEAD.
As long as we understand that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God and that there's only One God, NOT three.

 

[Cooper]

We don't have to understand the Trinity 100% in order to be Trinitarians.
The bible uses the word GODHEAD.
As long as we understand that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God and that there's only One God, NOT three.

That is true and the word GODHEAD speaks to me of One.

In America, they have the Head of State, Chief Executive, Commander in Chief, Head of Government, Chief Diplomat, Manager of the Economy and Ceremonial Head of State.” They are ONE, not seven and that one is the President of America. Light's out.
.

 

[Cooper]

If you need a physical representation of the Godhead for the children, we can do no better than follow Christs example who used a tree as an illustration. A tree has roots, a trunk, and branches. The roots are not the trunk and the trunk is not the branches, but they are One tree. It gives new life, provides sustenance for those who feed off it, and it keeps us safe from life's storms for those who shelter under it, the same as our God who shelters us from life's storms and holds us tight in his loving arms while they are past. May God bless one and all. Thank you Lord.
.

 

[Iconoclast]

Wondering said;


[OK Iconoclast

I went to the 3rd link.
Again, it's reformed.
I don't agree with reformed theology.]

The OP is about reformed theology, so should you be surprised ?
No one asked you to identify who wrote the link. You asked to to post links ,so I did.
You deny these Covenants exist, yet then you say this;

[Of course this Covenant was made BEFORE TIME BEGAN, as is the rule with the reformed.]

Here you speak of the Covenant of Redemption but once again deny it???

[I don't know what you'd like me to say.]

I asked you and now any other non Cal to go over the link, line by line. I do not think you can because attempts are being made to avoid the link's truth.

I am not suggesting "what you should say", but if you asked me to offer a link, I would like you to interact with the link and verses offered, not just give a generic opinion on your "feelings about reformed theology which you claim you do not like. Here is an example:


The Covenant of Redemption: God’s Blueprint for Our Salvation
by PASTOR MICHAEL BROWN on Wednesday, February 26, 2020 | AGR Live, Biblical Theology, Covenant of Grace, Covenant Theology, Gospel, Grace, Reformed Theology, Salvation
The covenant of redemption is essentially God’s blueprint for our salvation. Just as a house begins with a plan of meticulous engineering and technical design, so also did our redemption originate on the drafting table of God. Before the creation of the world, a plan was already in place to send the Son as the second Adam to remedy the disastrous results of the first Adam’s failure to fulfill the covenant of works in the garden of Eden and bring humankind to glory. The covenant of redemption was not a “plan B” to fix the mess Adam made, but the original blueprint for the work of Christ and the plan of redemption.

Yes I agree, there is no plan "b:


The covenant of redemption is the first of three overarching covenants in redemptive history, namely, thecovenant of redemption, the covenant of works, and the covenant of grace. There are, of course, more covenants in Scripture, such as the Abrahamic covenant, the Mosaic covenant, and so on. As we will learn in the subsequent articles in this series, however, these are subsets of the three overarching covenants. The first overarching covenant is the covenant of redemption. Sometimes referred to by its Latin title, pactum salutis, the covenant of redemption is the origin and firm foundation of the covenant of grace. Without it, there would be no election, no incarnation of the Son, no cross, no resurrection, and no promise of heaven. In short, there would be no salvation of sinners.

Yes I agree, as we are told by God He is a Covenant keeping God.


The covenant of redemption is unique for at least two other reasons. First, it was made between the persons of the Trinity, and not, as in most biblical covenants, between God and humans. The covenant of redemption is a pact between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit with the purpose of redeeming God’s elect. The Father gave to the Son those whom he chose to save and required him to accomplish their salvation though his obedient life and atoning death as the second Adam. He also promised the Son a reward on the completion of his work. The Son accepted the Father’s gift, agreed to the conditions of this covenant, and submitted himself to the Father’s will. The Holy Spirit promised to apply the benefits earned by the Son to the elect and unite them with the Son forever. Thus, we say the covenant of redemption is an “intratrinitarian” covenant between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Yes, I agree as this is what scripture reveals


Second, the covenant of redemption is unique because it was established before time. All other biblical covenants were made intime and history. The covenant of redemption, however, was made in eternity, before the foundation of the world and all things temporal. Thus, we say that it is a “pretemporal” covenant.

Yes revealed in scripture

Therefore, behind all of God’s covenanting with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Israel, David, and his elect, stands the covenant of redemption. Planned from eternity by the members of the Godhead, the covenant of redemption is the basis and driving purpose of all redemptive history. We can define the covenant of redemption as “the covenant established in eternity between the Father, who gives the Son to be the Redeemer of the elect and requires of him the conditions for their redemption; and the Son, who voluntarily agrees to fulfill these conditions; and the Spirit, who voluntarily applies the work of the Son to the elect.”[1]

Yes because...... or No , because of x,y, z,
That is what was requested

[1] Michael G. Brown and Zach Keele, Sacred Bond: Covenant Theology Explored (Grandville: Reformed Fellowship, 2012), 25.

Share this:

 

[GodsGrace]

If you need a physical representation of the Godhead for the children, we can do no better than follow Christs example who used a tree as an illustration. A tree has roots, a trunk, and branches. The roots are not the trunk and the trunk is not the branches, but they are One tree. It gives new life, provides sustenance for those who feed off it, and it keeps us safe from life's storms for those who shelter under it, the same as our God who shelters us from life's storms and holds us tight in his loving arms while they are past. May God bless one and all. Thank you Lord.
.

Great!

 

[GodsGrace]

Part 1.

If you're correct, then Christ's offering did not save to the uttermost, as we have been told (see Heb 7:25 below). But you are not correct. His offering does save perfectly and to the uttermost, otherwise our salvation would be dependent upon ourselves,

I hear this all the time Roger. How we on this side try to save ourselves.
This is something you just read and heard and have either not thought through, or refuse to accept the position on my side. NO Christian I know believes he saves himself. We believe there is cooperation in our salvation. Call it synergism. JESUS SAVES. Were it not for His sacrifice, no one would be saved - not in the OT and not in the NT times.
Jesus died for everyone, everywhere, for all time, past present future. Another bone of contention, maybe, but let it go for not. Even some calvinists believe that Jesus died for everyone.
There is so much difference between Calvinism and the rest of Christianity, that almost every sentence can become a thread of its own. Frankly, I would question this if I were in a reformed church. Why does no other denomination agree at all with TULIP? (some questions will be rhetorical, no reply necessary).

thereby negating the efficacy of Christ - you do believe Christ the Saviour, don't you? We are saved solely by what He did and not by anything we may or may not do. That is why He has the title of Saviour and we do not.

UFFA.

Regarding John 15:5-6, those who are saved learn from the Bible and will follow its admonitions. If they weren’t taught by the Bible, then they wouldn't become edified. That they do learn, is not to bring them salvation but because they already have salvation. For the unsaved, they will misunderstand and interpret it into something they must do for salvation.

So are you saying I'm not saved because I don't agree that Jesus spent over 3 years wasting His breath to teach the Apostles stuff they already knew from their Rabbi's?

The GOOD NEWS is that God has made a way for our salvation.
If I decide to make you a mechanic and change your brain to understand engines,
WHY would you need to read a book?
The reformed claim that God changes the heart to 1. be saved, 2. learn how to behave.
I mean, if God changes your heart first - what more do you require?
The entire reason for Jesus and the New Covenant and the Holy Spirit is to help us to behave as person in the Kingdom of God.

Yes. We must DO after we are saved.
Jesus left us with many commandments so that we can know what that is.
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.
That says a lot.
Matthew 24/25 gives us more specific things to DO.
Matthew 7:24 tell us how it will be IF we listen to Jesus' words.
Jesus tells us TO ACT on His words...and our house will not fall.

Why give instruction when IT IS GOD that has predestinated everything - even the dust that floats in the air.

Also, you neglected to include verses 7 - 8 which relates to 5-6. Those saved have Christ's words abiding in them - but they abide in them as a fruit of the Holy Spirit from salvation.

John 15:1-6
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

Roger, just read all of the above again...
You said I kept out verses 7 and 8....

Verse 7
IF you abide in Me
IF

Verse 8
Father is glorified that we bear much fruit AND THIS PROVES that we are the disciples of Jesus.

IOW, It's UP TO US to remain abiding in Jesus, verse 7.
We are to bear much fruit, verse 8.

I thought the reformed believed God was somehow glorified by the dishonorable vessels,
by the unregenerate?

Thanks for that reply...and please confirm my understanding.
I've asked MANY TIMES HOW God is glorified by humanity going to hell and have NEVER received a reply.

The reason the Father is glorified is that by having been saved by God, they bring forth much fruit

I agree that God is glorified when we honor and obey Him.
Is this what the reformed mean however?
I always thought they were speaking of the unregenerate...?

[Heb 7:24-25, 27 KJV]
24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. ...
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Save them to the uttermost...
OK,,,but how do we ignore all the verses that say we could fall away?
The excuse is that they were never saved to begin with, but Jesus says they were.

Also, if you're willing to listen to what Augustine believed in the 400,s
why are you not willing to listen to the early theologians that came BEFORE him...
who did not believe in predestination,
did not believe in eternal unconditional security,
and believed in good works.

[Jhn 15:7-8 KJV]
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

OK. I mentioned about the first word...IF...which you haven't highlighted...
this is the problem, we all just see what we want to see.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, true faith is a fruit of the Spirit (see Gal 5:22 below) and as such, a gift.

Galatians 5:22 is not FAITH
It's FAITHFULNESS that is a gift of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22 Interlinear: And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,

Faith.—Rather, perhaps, faithfulness; not here in the sense peculiar to St. Paul, in which faith is the primary Christian virtue, but rather (as the context shows) “faithfulness,” or “trustworthiness” in dealing with men, along with, perhaps, that frank and unsuspicious temper which St. Paul ascribes specially to charity (1Corinthians 13:7).

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/galatians/5-22.htm

My Italian bible, which is better translated due to the proximity of the Latin languages,
also translate it as FAITHFULNESS.

The Holy Spirit is Himself God. One obtains true faith only from becoming born again (from salvation) which cannot be self-imparted. Many claim to have faith, but unless given by the Holy Spirit, that faith must be of their work, not God's -- true faith is given of the Holy Spirit with Christ as its centerpiece – by whom is everything else relating to salvation, to include that faith, given – and because it is given, it is free and eternal. A false faith does not have Christ as its centerpiece but requires work - to include that faith itself, because it was not given but manufactured is false.

We're getting into too much stuff.
I think I've said before that there is no recipe for salvation...
different persons become saved for different reasons.
Some arrive by an experience,
some by study and knowledge,
God gives His faith to everyone that desires it.
THIS is true justice...not picking some and leaving others behind as Calvin taught.

That which brought salvation to us was Christ's faith(fulness) and His obedience not ours. From and because of that, those saved have His faith imputed unto them, and by that, come faith and righteousness.
Regarding your recipe comment, I do not understand what you mean.

I hope you understand my recipe comment better now.
Read Romans 1:19-20 God has always revealed Himself to man so that man will have no excuse when he stands before God.

I think I undestand better what you mean that we are saved by the faith of Jesus.
IOW, we're not saved by the faith Jesus had
but by the fact that He was faithful in carrying out His work of salvation.
This is agreed on.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Addressed.

BTW, dispensing grace is not the work of the Holy Spirit but of God Father.
But this dish is full !

[Eph 2:8 KJV]
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Right. God Father...the Holy Spirit is address as such - not as FATHER.

And look at the Ordo Salutis:
Through faith
we are saved
by grace

1. GRACE
2. FAITH
3. SALVATION

[Gal 2:20 KJV]
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I have the following for
Galatians 2:20 NASB
20“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

[Rom 3:22 KJV]
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I have the following for
Romans 3:22 NASB
22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;


I dislike saying this, but the KJV is not the best out there.
It's old and many new manuscripts have been found and the
actual translation is more in keeping with the original Greek.
The translators are better and more knowledgeable.
I wonder what other translations say...

Look, even the NKJV doesn't agree with the KJV!

New International Version
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

New Living Translation
We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

English Standard Version
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Berean Standard Bible
And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,

Berean Literal Bible
And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing. For there is no distinction,

King James Bible
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

New King James Version
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

New American Standard Bible
but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction,

 

[GodsGrace]

Part 2 (I'm not real good at cutting and pasting so I may have messed it up. If so, please let me know)

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit (see Gal 5;22 below). The Holy Spirit is Himself God. One obtains true faith only from becoming born again (from salvation) and it cannot be self-imparted. Many claim to have faith, but unless given by the Holy Spirit, that faith is their work, not God's -- true faith is given of the Holy Spirit and has Christ as its centerpiece – by whom is everything else relating to salvation to include that faith, given – and because it is given, it is eternal. A false faith does not have Christ as its centerpiece but requires work - to include that faith itself as a work because it was not given.
That which brought salvation to us was Christ's faith(fulness) and His obedience not ours. From and because of that, those saved have His faith imputed unto them, and from that, are given their faith and righteousness.
Regarding your recipe comment, I do not understand what you mean.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Eph 2:8 KJV]
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

[Gal 2:20 KJV]
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

[Rom 3:22 KJV]
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The rest of that particular post above, I don't understand.


There are two manifestations of faith: 1) Christ's faith which brought salvation to the elect, and from that, 2) faith given to those saved. Faith given to those who become saved, grows over time in the hearing of the gospel and growth in the excellency of the knowledge of Christ. This faith, however, is not the one that saves, only Christ's faith does that.
Read closely the parts of 2:16 that are underscored. To paraphrase: by Christ's faith we believe, and by His faith we are saved – it is all by Christ, not ourselves.

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We may all have human ears, but no one can hear spiritually with them. To truly hear the gospel requires spiritual ears not physical, therefore not all hear - only the saved can.

[Jhn 8:42-43 & 47 KJV]
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
(hat tip to brightfame52 for v47)

[Mat 13:16 KJV]
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.



I already included that in my prior post to you, but here it is again:
Look at the verses preceding 1 Pet 1:5 - it is easier to understand if taken in context:
V3 informs that it is God Himself who has begotten again (has made born again) those who are kept in v5; v4 informs that their inheritance is already reserved, awaiting them in heaven - and in being reserved by God for them, they cannot fall from it neither can it be lost to them; v5 informs that to receive the inheritance as promised by God in v4, they are kept by the power of God.
By the way, the "unto salvation" of v5, is the final manifestation of salvation on the last day - the final rejuvenation.

[1Pe 1:3-5 KJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Phl 1:6 tells us essentially the same thing – that God has made Himself guarantor of the salvation of those saved

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

In your verse 4, I don't think you included that it had been "reserved in heaven for them". Because it is "their inheritance" from God, that inheritance is reserved in heaven. Since the elect alone are the beneficiaries of the will of God, when the testator (Christ) died, that will came into full force and effect, is frozen, and unchangeable. Therefore, whomever was in it then, they, and they alone, will be in it forever (and no one else can be), and thereby receives the inheritance of God and eternal life.

[Gal 3:15 KJV] 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

[Heb 9:16-17 KJV]
16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Think about that. If God reserved an inheritance in heaven for them, then that inheritance must be received by them and only by them, and in being reserved, cannot be lost. So, going back to 1Pet 1:5, those given faith, through the power of God, will remain in faith unto the end.

Part 2!


OK. But not tonight!

HAPPY NEW YEAR Roger.
Prayers for a healthy one!

 

[rogerg]

Part 2!


OK. But not tonight!

HAPPY NEW YEAR Roger.
Prayers for a healthy one!

Thanks, same to you. At this point, don't see any benefit in continuing this particular dialogue further.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks, same to you. At this point, don't see any benefit in continuing this particular dialogue further.

It's interesting.
You gave me a couple of answers.
At least you answer questions and are pleasant...
thanks for that.

Look up that Galatians 5:22 word FAITH/FAITHFULNESS.
It really is FAITHFULNESS.

And the Ordo Salutis is important.
But I know we won't be changing our view points.

A member here told me he could argue with Leighton Flowers, or something like that.
So I looked him up on YouTube.
He used to be reformed for years.
He's a pastor now and no longer a calvinist.
Been watching it...it's good.

I've read a lot of Calvin's institutes but I can't read all that much anymore.
So maybe I'll be watching more YouTube...
(plus I wish somebody would put it in modern English).

See you around.

 

[Iconoclast]

It's interesting.
You gave me a couple of answers.
At least you answer questions and are pleasant...
thanks for that.

Look up that Galatians 5:22 word FAITH/FAITHFULNESS.
It really is FAITHFULNESS.

And the Ordo Salutis is important.
But I know we won't be changing our view points.

A member here told me he could argue with Leighton Flowers, or something like that.
So I looked him up on YouTube.
He used to be reformed for years.
He's a pastor now and no longer a calvinist.
Been watching it...it's good.

I've read a lot of Calvin's institutes but I can't read all that much anymore.
So maybe I'll be watching more YouTube...
(plus I wish somebody would put it in modern English).

See you around.

Leighton Flowers was never a Calvinist. He claims that , but every Cal knows he does not know the position. I interacted with him for four years on another board. All the Cals dealt with Him.
His failed debate on romans 9 vs. James White was telling.

 

[rogerg]

Look up that Galatians 5:22 word FAITH/FAITHFULNESS.
It really is FAITHFULNESS.

Nope, it isn't - and since you bring it up, I have many times...
"faithfulness" in this context, is a derivative of faith but faithfulness isn't a correct usages of the word
for Gal 5:22 .

pistis definition
People also ask:
What is the Greek root word for faith?

In Greek, the root word from which we get 'faith, the noun is PISTIS, and 'believe', the verb is PISTUEO. FAITH means- belief, firm persuasion, assurance, firm conviction, faithfulness.

pistis (Key)

The KJV translates Strong's G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x), assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x), fidelity (1x).

I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

1. relating to God
   1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
2. relating to Christ
   1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
3. the religious beliefs of Christians
4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

Mat 8:10
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, G4102 no, not in Israel.

[Mar 11:22 KJV]
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith[G4102] in God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Leighton Flowers was never a Calvinist. He claims that , but every Cal knows he does not know the position. I interacted with him for four years on another board. All the Cals dealt with Him.
His failed debate on romans 9 vs. James White was telling.

Actually, Flowers doesn't interest me too much.
I know what John Calvin taught and I go by that.

Incredible, however, that Flowers could lie about having been a Calvinist and no one calls him out on it.
I'm sure most of the people he knew are still alive...

Some of us just don't trust anybody-
how do we trust some person that lived 2,000 years ago?

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope, it isn't - and since you bring it up, I have many times...
"faithfulness" in this context, is a derivative of faith but faithfulness isn't a correct usages of the word
for Gal 5:22 .

pistis definition
People also ask:
What is the Greek root word for faith?

In Greek, the root word from which we get 'faith, the noun is PISTIS, and 'believe', the verb is PISTUEO. FAITH means- belief, firm persuasion, assurance, firm conviction, faithfulness.

You already had this...you need it again?

pistis (Key)

The KJV translates Strong's G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x), assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x), fidelity (1x).

I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

1. relating to God
   1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ

Correct.
God Father gives us the gift of faith - which in turn gives us eternal life.

• relating to Christ
  
  1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
• the religious beliefs of Christians
• belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

Mat 8:10
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, G4102 no, not in Israel.

Look, it's the same word 4102.
Find out why it's faith at times and faithfulness at times.

[Mar 11:22 KJV]
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith[G4102] in God.

You know any romance languages?
I know 2.
Yeah. Pride is an ugly thing.

It's FAITHFULNESS.

I don't even understand your explanation.
But let me tell you something, STRONG's, which I do respect, falls short.

Guess all those different verses I posted meant nothing.
The KJV is very flawed...
but it's in keeping with your belief system...

Faith is a gift from God Father,
NOT from the Holy Spirit.

Gal 5:22 are gifts we get AFTER we're saved and living in the Kingdom.

If you believe Perseverance of the Saints and OSAS
WHY do you ALSO believe that faith has to be given on a continual basis?
You're saved once and then God keeps you, right?

 

[Iconoclast]

Actually, Flowers doesn't interest me too much.
I know what John Calvin taught and I go by that.

Incredible, however, that Flowers could lie about having been a Calvinist and no one calls him out on it.
I'm sure most of the people he knew are still alive...

Some of us just don't trust anybody-
how do we trust some person that lived 2,000 years ago?

I interacted with him for four years. I do not say he is lying. he went to a reformed church, but he never really grasped the teaching. He might have thought he was a Cal, but he most surely was not.
I found him to be a nice guy. He could take critical remarks, and offer his own back at you.
He posted under the name Skandelon, on Baptistboard from 2011-2015

 

[Free]

Well, I have problems with the way trinitarianism is explained in the diagram. They say the father is not the son, the son is not the Holy Spirit etc, whereas I think to apply the word 'not' to the Almighty is inappropriate. God is all in all.
I will look forward to the thread, but really I think I have expressed my view already.

Added. I would say Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply three titles. I'm not oneness either.
.

But the diagram is correct since the Father is not the Son and neither are the Holy Spirit. Each is fully and truly God, each coeternal and coequal, but they are in some way distinct from each other. They are not merely three titles.

 

[rogerg]

God Father gives us the gift of faith - which in turn gives us eternal life.

Only with, and by, the Holy Spirit is His fruit is it given. He only gives the Holy Spirit at becoming born-again,
and only becoming born again with salvation. So, one has to be saved to be given true faith from God.
Therefore, it is not given to everyone - and the only language I need to know is the language of God
in the Bible, of which, we can only gain an understanding of from the Bible.