˒ĕlōhı̂m: Plural Persons, or Majesty?

[SolaScriptura]

The very first verse in the Holy Bible reads, “In the beginning ˒ĕlōhı̂m Created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1)

“˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a Name of God, but more a description or identity of the Supreme Divine Being in the Old Testament. “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is masculine in gender, and plural in number. It has most probably from the root “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, both are also masculine, but singular.

How are we to understand the plural form “˒ĕlōhı̂m”? The Jews understand it to mean:

“The most common of the originally appellative names of God is Elohim (אלהים), plural in form though commonly construed with a singular verb or adjective. This is, most probably, to be explained as the plural of majesty or excellence, expressing high dignity or greatness” (Jewish Encyclopedia)

The Jews, it must be remembered, do not accept that the God of the Old Testament, is a “Plurality of Persons”. To them, God is just the One Person, Who is the Father.

Those who also reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person, and anti-Trinitarian, are known as Unitarian, who, like the Jews, believe that God is just the One Person, Who is the Father.

The plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, as we are told here, by the Jews and Unitarians, is used to show the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of the God of the Old Testament. Some Hebrew grammarians call the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “plural of Majesty”. There is no evidence in the entire Old Testament, to support this definition. It has been thought up by those, like the Jews and Unitarians, and others who reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person. The evidence from the Old Testament, will show that “plural of Majesty”, is no more than human conjecture.

In the first place, “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is not a unique word, that is used only for The One True God of the Old Testament. It is not the same as the Name of God, “Yehôvâh”, which is only used for The One True God of the Old Testament, and is always in the singular. Why was not the singular, “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, not used in every instance in the Old Testament, for The One True God, as opposed to the false “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, idols, and human judges? Are we to assume, that it is only when “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used for “God”, that it means “plural of majesty”; but, the singular “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, when used for “God”, does not mean, “Majesty”, or “Greatness”, or “Excellence”? We shall see, that there are clear places in the Old Testament, where the singular “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah” are used, and the meaning does mean, “Majesty”, or “Greatness”, or “Excellence”.

Secondly, there are many instances in the Old Testament, where “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used for false “gods”. In Exodus chapter 20, when The Ten Commandments were Written by God:

“And God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) spoke all these words, saying, “I am the LORD (Yehôvâh) your God (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...“You shall have no other gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) beside Me” (verses 1-3)

And verse 23, “You shall not make gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of silver to be with me, nor shall you make for yourselves gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of gold”

Does “˒ĕlōhı̂m” in all of these uses mean, “plural of Majesty”?

Another good example, is Psalm 82, which shows that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, cannot be used as “plural of majesty”.

Verse 1 reads: “God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) He holds judgment”

In verse 6 it says, “I said, “You are gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), sons of the Most High, all of you”

verse 8, “Arise, O God (˒ĕlōhı̂m), judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!”

Here we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” used twice for The One True God of the Bible; and once for false “gods”, and once for “judges”. Each time it is the same plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”. Are we to understand that the same meaning, “plural of majesty”, is applied to the false gods, and human judges?

In other places we also have “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, used for humans who are “judges”

Exodus 21:6, “then his master must bring him to the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

Exodus 22:8, 9, “then the owner of the house will be brought before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...come before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m), and the one whom the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m) declare guilty ” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

“˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is also used for false idols, as in Genesis 31:30, 32 “And now you have gone away because you longed greatly for your father's house, but why did you steal my gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m)?...Anyone with whom you find your gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) shall not live”. Genesis 35:2,4 “So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Put away the foreign gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) that are among you and purify yourselves and change your garments...So they gave to Jacob all the foreign gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) that they had”. Exodus 32:31, “So Moses returned to the LORD and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) of gold”

In Exodus 7:1, God tells Moses, “And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (˒ĕlōhı̂m) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet”

“˒ĕlōhı̂m” is used about 2600 times in the Old Testament for The One True God. However, as we can see, it is also used for false gods, false idols, human judges, etc. If, as those who argue that we are to understand the plural form of “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, to describe God’s “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”; then are we to take these same meanings, for the false gods, false idols, human judges, etc? How exactly, can these be “majestic” or “great” or “excellent”? It is absurd!

I shall give examples from the Old Testament, where both the singular forms, “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, and used for Almighty God, to describe His “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”. So, why could these words have been used in every instance in the Old Testament, for The One True God? This would have made it very clear, that GOD in the Old Testament, is just One Person, Who is the Father.

For the singular, “˒ēl”, there are examples that show it is used to decrible God’s “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”:

Genesis 14:18-22, “And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the Most High (‛elyôn) God (˒ēl). And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram by God ('êl) Most High (‛elyôn), Possessor of heaven and earth. And blessed be the Most High (‛elyôn) God (˒ēl)... But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have lifted my hand to the LORD (yehôvâh), God (˒ēl) Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth”

Deuteronomy 7:21, “You shall not be in dread of them, for the LORD (yehôvâh) your God (˒ĕlōhı̂m) is in your midst, a great and awesome God (˒ēl)”

Joshua 22:22, “The LORD (yehôvâh) God (˒ēl) of gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), the LORD (yehôvâh) God (˒ēl) of gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m), he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD (yehôvâh), (save us not this day,)”

2 Samuel 22:33, “This God (˒ēl) is my strong refuge and has made my way blameless”

Psalm 18:2, “The LORD (yehôvâh) is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God (˒ēl), my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower”

Psalm 90:2, “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from Everlasting to Everlasting you are God (˒ēl)”

Psalm 95:3, “For the LORD (yehôvâh) is a great God (˒ēl), and a great King above all gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m)”

Jeremiah 32:18, “Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great (gâdôl), the Mighty (gibwōr) God,(˒ēl) the LORD (yehôvâh) of hosts, is His Name”

Isaiah 9:6, is a Prophecy of The Messiah, Jesus Christ. One of Names by which He will be called, is “’êl gib·bō·wr”, translated even in the New World Translation, as “Mighty God”. The same Hebrew is found in chapter 10:21; Jeremiah 32:18; Deuteronomy 10:17. It is clear that there are Two distinct Persons Who are Mighty God.

 

[SolaScriptura]

cont...

The same can be seen for the singular ˒ĕlōah:

Deuteronomy 32:15, 17, “then he forsook God (˒ĕlōah) which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation...They sacrificed unto devils, not to God (˒ĕlōah); to gods (˒ĕlōhı̂m) whom they knew not”

Job 11:7, “Canst thou by searching find out God (˒ĕlōah)? canst thou find out the Almighty (shadday) unto perfection?”

Job 22:26, “For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty (shadday), and shalt lift up thy face unto God (˒ĕlōah)”

Job 27:10, “Will he delight himself in the Almighty (shadday)? will he always call upon God (˒ĕlōah)?”

Job 33:12, “Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God (˒ĕlōah) is Greater (râbâh) than man”

Psalm 18:31, “For who is God (˒ĕlōah) save the LORD (yehôvâh)? or who is a Rock save our God (˒ĕlōhı̂m)?”

Psalm 114:7, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord ('âdôn), at the presence of the God (˒ĕlōah) of Jacob”

Isaiah 44:8, “Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God (˒ĕlōah) besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”

In all of these examples, it is clear that both “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”, are used to describe “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of The One True God of the Old Testament. So why would the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, be used, for what the singular already does?

It is clear that the use of the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is not to describe the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of The One True God of the Old Testament, which is already done by the singular, “˒ēl”, and “˒ĕlōah”. There is also clear evidence in the Old Testament, to show that the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, is used because The One True God of the Old Testament, is not One Person, Who is the Father.

If, as those who argue for Unitarianism, God is One Person, there can be no doubt, that Genesis 1:1, would have been written, “bərē’šîṯ bārā’ ’ĕl/˒ĕlōah ’ēṯ haššāmayim wə’ēṯ hā’āreṣ”, where the singular, “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, would have been used instead of the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”; this would also agree with the singular verb, “bā·rā (Created)”. In the Book of Isaiah, we read, “Thus says God (hā·’êl, lit, The God), the LORD (yehôvâh), Who Created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and what comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it” (42:5). In referring to the Creation of the entire universe, as in Genesis 1:1, Isaiah uses the singular “’êl”, and not the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”.

From Genesis 1:2, onwards, we have a more detailed Account of the Creation of “the heavens and the earth”.

When we get to verses 26 and 27, it becomes clear why the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, and not the singular “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, is used in verse 1, and in over 2600 times in the Old Testament.

“Then God said, “Let Us Make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”. So God Created man in His Own Image; in the Image of God He created him; male and female He created them”

In verse 26, we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” (mas. plural), as the Speaker, Who says, “let US make (na-‘ă-śeh, plural) man, in OUR Image (bəṣaləmēnû, plural) , according to OUR Likeness (kiḏəmûṯēnû, plural)

It must be asked, if God were Unitarian, then surely we would have expected verse 26 to read:

“Then God said, I have Made man in My Image, according to My Likeness”

In verse 27 it goes on to say, “So God (ĕlōhı̂m) Created man in His Own Image (bə·ṣal·mōw) ; in the Image (bə·ṣe·lem) of God (ĕlōhı̂m) He created him”. As we read in Genesis 9:6, “for in the Image of God (bə·ṣe·lem ˒ĕlōhı̂m) made He man”. Why the plural in verse 26?

Those who reject the Plurality of Persons in “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, have suggested, as in the Jewish Palestinian Targum, “And the Lord said to the angels who ministered before Him, who had been created in the second day of the creation of the world, Let us make man in Our image, in Our likeness”. However, in verse 27, it reads, “And the Lord created man in His likeness: In the image of the Lord He created him”. In verse 26, God is supposed to be talking to His created “angels”, that He was going to Create humans, in OUR (God and His angels), Image and Likeness. But, in verse 27, and 9:6, it is clear, that humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God, with no mention of the “angels”! Some have even suggested that God is here talking to His “divine council”. This is no more than human speculation, as there is not a single verse in the entire Old Testament, that even hints humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God and His angels!

It is interesting, that in another Jewish Targum, The Jerusalem, verse 27 reads, “And the Word (Memra) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them”. In the Targums, the “Memra of Yahweh”, is a Person, and Himself also Yahweh. Clear that the Jews themselves admit to Creation by more than One Person.

Some quote Malachi 2:10, as their “proof”, that the Father alone is the Creator; “Have we not all one Father (’e·ḥāḏ ’āḇ)? Has not one God (’e·ḥāḏ ’êl, sing) Created (bə·rā·’ā·nū) us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?”

Similarly, in Isaiah 51:13, “and have forgotten the LORD (Yehôvâh), your Maker (‘ō·śe·ḵā, sing), Who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth”

But, in Job 35:10, it is very interesting, “But none says, ‘Where is God my Maker, who gives songs in the night”. Here “God” is “˒ĕlōah”, masculine, singular; and “Maker”, “‘ō·śāy”, masculine, plural, literally, “God my Makers”. Again, why the singular “˒ĕlōah”, with the plural, “‘ō·śāy”? It is clear from this, that “˒ĕlōah”, is used to show the “Essential Unity”; and “‘ō·śāy”, for the “Plurality of Persons”. There is not other explanation for this. We should have expected, the singular “‘ō·śê·nî”.

This is also seen in Isaiah 54:5, “For your Maker (‘ō·śa·yiḵ, plural, your Makers) is your Husband (ḇō·‘ă·la·yiḵ, plural, your Husbands), the LORD of Hosts is His Name (šə·mōw, sing); and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called”. Why not as in Isaiah 51:13, where we read the singular?

Likewise, in Ecclesiastes 12:1, “Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth”

Here “your Creator”, “bō·wr·’e·ḵā”, is the masculine, plural, “your Creators”. Why the plural?

Genesis 46:3, “Then he said, “I am God (hā·’êl), the God (ĕ·lō·hê) of your father”

Literally, “I am the God, the Gods”

Exodus 20:5, “You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God”

“’ā·nō·ḵî Yehôvâh ’ĕ·lō·he·ḵā ’êl qan·nā”, literally, “I Yahweh your Gods God jealous” (also Deuteronomy 4:24, etc)

2 Samuel 22:32, “For who is God (’êl), but the LORD (Yehôvâh)? And who is a Rock, except our God (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)?”

“God...Yahweh...Gods”

The singular ’êl, in these, and other passages, can only denote the “Essential Unity” of God; and the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “Plurality of Persons”.

There is also clear evidence in the Old Testament, of more than One Person Who is The Creator.

In Job chapter 38 we read, “Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said...Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” (verses 1, 4)

And Isaiah 44:6, “This is what the LORD says, He who is the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no god besides Me”

Here we have “Yehôvâh”, as The Creator, and the Eternal God.

In Isaiah 48:12-13, it says:

“Listen to Me, Jacob, and Israel, the one called by Me: I am He; I am the first, I am also the last. My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summoned them, they stood up together”

verse 16 reads,

“Approach Me and listen to this. From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time anything existed, I was there.” And now the Lord God has sent Me and His Spirit”

Here the Speaker (1st Person, singular), Who is Himself The Creator and the Eternal God, says, that “’ă·ḏō·nāy Yehôvâh”, is SENDING (šə·lā·ḥa·nî, 3rd person, Another Person) Himself and the Spirit (wə·rū·ḥōw 3rd person, Another Person). Verse 17 confirms Who the Speaker is, “Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go”

In Proverbs 9:10, we read, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight”

“the LORD”, “Yehôvâh”, masculine, singular

“the Holy One”, “qə·ḏō·šîm”, masculine, plural, “the Holy Ones”

Proverbs 30:3, “I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One”

“the Holy One”, “qə·ḏō·šîm”, masculine, plural, “the Holy Ones”

The evidence from the Old Testament is overwhelmingly against God being Unitarian. It is abundantly clear to those who want to know what the Bible really teaches, that “˒ĕlōhı̂m” is not a single Person.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The most puzzling part is not Elohim, but the three "Us" announcements:

"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;" (Gen. 1:26)
"Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil." (Gen. 3:22)
"Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Gen. 11:7)

I believe this is referring to God's divine council, the key verse to understand this is in Gen. 1:27, where God created man and woman in His OWN image instead of "our" image as indicated in Gen. 1:26. His divine council may or may not have assisted God in the creation of mankind on Day 6, but make no mistake, the outcome was God's own image, not any council member's image.

 

[SolaScriptura]

The most puzzling part is not Elohim, but the three "Us" announcements:

"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;" (Gen. 1:26)
"Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil." (Gen. 3:22)
"Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Gen. 11:7)

I believe this is referring to God's divine council, the key verse to understand this is in Gen. 1:27, where God created man and woman in His OWN image instead of "our" image as indicated in Gen. 1:26. His divine council may or may not have assisted God in the creation of mankind on Day 6, but make no mistake, the outcome was God's own image, not any council member's image.

Hi the Bible says that humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God. There is nothing about any "divine council", or "angels", or any of the "heavenly beings"

It is very clear from the Bible, that God the Father Created, as in Hebrews 2:10. In Hebrews 1:10-12, the Father addresses Jesus Christ as The Actual Creator, and applies the Old Testament passage of Creation by ˒ĕlōhı̂m, in Psalm 102:24-27, to Jesus Christ. In Job 33:4, Creation is the Work of God the Holy Spirit. So, the plural ˒ĕlōhı̂m is correctly used because there is more than One "Person" in the Eternal Godhead, as Paul says in Romans 1:20, "θειότης"

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hi the Bible says that humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God. There is nothing about any "divine council", or "angels", or any of the "heavenly beings"

It is very clear from the Bible, that God the Father Created, as in Hebrews 2:10. In Hebrews 1:10-12, the Father addresses Jesus Christ as The Actual Creator, and applies the Old Testament passage of Creation by ˒ĕlōhı̂m, in Psalm 102:24-27, to Jesus Christ. In Job 33:4, Creation is the Work of God the Holy Spirit. So, the plural ˒ĕlōhı̂m is correctly used because there is more than One "Person" in the Eternal Godhead, as Paul says in Romans 1:20, "θειότης"

Yeah, maybe, I'm just generally against the idea of interpreting the OT with the NT. A rule of thumb is, NT is the fulfillment of the OT and is interpreted with the OT, and NOT the other way around.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yeah, maybe, I'm just generally against the idea of interpreting the OT with the NT. A rule of thumb is, NT is the fulfillment of the OT and is interpreted with the OT, and NOT the other way around.

The Teaching of the Trinity is not a New Testament invention, as some very wrongly conclude. It is there in the very first verse and chapter of the Book of Genesis, and right through the Old Testament.

Even in the Jewish Targum translations, there is a distinctive Person Who is called "Memra", which in the Greek is, "Logos". As The Jerusalem Targum, reads in Genesis 1: 27, “And the Word (Memra) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them”. In the Targums, the “Memra of Yahweh”, is a Person, and Himself also Yahweh. Clear that the Jews themselves admit to Creation by more than One Person.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The Teaching of the Trinity is not a New Testament invention, as some very wrongly conclude. It is there in the very first verse and chapter of the Book of Genesis, and right through the Old Testament.

Even in the Jewish Targum translations, there is a distinctive Person Who is called "Memra", which in the Greek is, "Logos". As The Jerusalem Targum, reads in Genesis 1: 27, “And the Word (Memra) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them”. In the Targums, the “Memra of Yahweh”, is a Person, and Himself also Yahweh. Clear that the Jews themselves admit to Creation by more than One Person.

Amen. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made." - John. 1:2-3

 

[SolaScriptura]

Amen. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made." - John. 1:2-3

I have never liked this translation, as it does not correctly define the use of the Greek preposition, δι’, here. The meaning cannot be "through", which is not taught anywhere in the Bible. Nor, "by" (KJV,etc), but must be "with", as used by Paul in Galatians 1:1. As it is clear that Jesus Christ, the Father and Holy Spirit, Three distinct equal Persons, Created the entire universe, the use "with", which is "together", best suits this.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I have never liked this translation, as it does not correctly define the use of the Greek preposition, δι’, here. The meaning cannot be "through", which is not taught anywhere in the Bible. Nor, "by" (KJV,etc), but must be "with", as used by Paul in Galatians 1:1. As it is clear that Jesus Christ, the Father and Holy Spirit, Three distinct equal Persons, Created the entire universe, the use "with", which is "together", best suits this.

You know, rather than obessing with "preposition" and other such trivialities, I wish I could know what those strange Hebrew names mean. So far I don't know one single translation with some footnotes that could shed a light on these names. Not a single translation I know could simply inform its readers that Jesus Christ means "the annointed savior." A lot of people have a new year resolution of reading the whole bible in that year, then they give up at Leviticus due to the rituals and bloods. I have no problem with that, I stop at Numbers because I can't pronounce these names in Num. 1-2.

 

[SolaScriptura]

You know, rather than obessing with "preposition" and other such trivialities, I wish I could know what those strange Hebrew names mean. So far I don't know one single translation with some footnotes that could shed a light on these names. Not a single translation I know could simply inform its readers that Jesus Christ means "the annointed savior." A lot of people have a new year resolution of reading the whole bible in that year, then they give up at Leviticus due to the rituals and bloods. I have no problem with that, I stop at Numbers because I can't pronounce these names in Num. 1-2.

what you call "obsessing", is actually very important to correctly understand what the Holy Spirit is saying through His Word.

In Matthew 1:1, The Amplified Bible has a note for "Jesus", "Heb Yeshua (Joshua), meaning The Lord is salvation. And for "Messiah", "Gr Christos. Greek for Messiah, which means Anointed One. Throughout his gospel, which is directed primarily to Jewish believers, Matthew uses OT Scripture to emphasize the fact that Jesus is their promised Messiah." There are many Bible Versions that have foot notes on various terms used, and there are also study Bibles for those who want to dig deeper

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings SolaScriptura,

The plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, as we are told here, by the Jews and Unitarians, is used to show the “Majesty”, and “Greatness”, and “Excellence”, of the God of the Old Testament. Some Hebrew grammarians call the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, the “plural of Majesty”. There is no evidence in the entire Old Testament, to support this definition. It has been thought up by those, like the Jews and Unitarians, and others who reject that the God of the Bible is more than One Person. The evidence from the Old Testament, will show that “plural of Majesty”, is no more than human conjecture.

I appreciate your comprehensive cover of this topic and I will not initially answer all that you have stated and possibly I do not know how to answer everything you have stated. I am a believer that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father but I do not accept the explanation that "Elohim" is a "plural of Majesty".

In other places we also have “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, used for humans who are “judges”
Exodus 21:6, “then his master must bring him to the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)” (KJV, NKJV, NET)
Exodus 22:8, 9, “then the owner of the house will be brought before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m)...come before the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m), and the one whom the judges (˒ĕlōhı̂m) declare guilty ” (KJV, NKJV, NET)

I suggest that the occurrence of "Elohim" here gives some indication of the meaning of this word. It is not just simply an alternative word for "judges", but it indicates the wider range of the word "Elohim", showing that those who represent the One God, Yahweh can be addressed with this title. It is interesting that some modern translations translate "Elohim" here as "God":
Exodus 21:6 (NASB95): then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.

Exodus 22:8–9 (NASB95): 8 “If the thief is not caught, then the owner of the house shall appear before the judges, to determine whether he laid his hands on his neighbor’s property. 9 “For every breach of trust, whether it is for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, or for any lost thing about which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor.

Exodus 21:6 (ESV): then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

Exodus 22:8–9 (ESV): 8 If the thief is not found, the owner of the house shall come near to God to show whether or not he has put his hand to his neighbor’s property. 9 For every breach of trust, whether it is for an ox, for a donkey, for a sheep, for a cloak, or for any kind of lost thing, of which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before God. The one whom God condemns shall pay double to his neighbor.
It is interesting that the NASB does not seem to be consistent as it uses both "God" in the first reference and "the judges" in the second reference, while the ESV uses "God" in each reference.

I also suggest that this gives a clue to the application of the word "Elohim" to many occasions when an Angel appeared:
Exodus 3:2–6 (KJV): 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Just as the Judges represented God and were called "Elohim", the Angels represent God and speak and act on His behalf.

When we get to verses 26 and 27, it becomes clear why the plural “˒ĕlōhı̂m”, and not the singular “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, is used in verse 1, and in over 2600 times in the Old Testament.

“Then God said, “Let Us Make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”. So God Created man in His Own Image; in the Image of God He created him; male and female He created them”
In verse 26, we have “˒ĕlōhı̂m” (mas. plural), as the Speaker, Who says, “let US make (na-‘ă-śeh, plural) man, in OUR Image (bəṣaləmēnû, plural) , according to OUR Likeness (kiḏəmûṯēnû, plural)
It must be asked, if God were Unitarian, then surely we would have expected verse 26 to read:
“Then God said, I have Made man in My Image, according to My Likeness”

I believe that the One God, Yahweh, God the Father invited the Angels to participate in the creation of man in the image and after the likeness of God and the Angels. Verse 27 then is also correct as man is created in the image of God.

I consider the following is David's summary and commentary on Genesis 1:26-27 which states that Yahweh made man a little lower than the Angels (Elohim).
Psalm 8:1–6 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Here "Elohim" is used for the Angels who helped God in the creation of man.

My tentative understanding of the word "Elohim" and the plurality is that it speaks of the One God who delights to share his plan, purpose and work with others, including the Angels and Judges.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[SolaScriptura]

Greetings SolaScriptura,

I appreciate your comprehensive cover of this topic and I will not initially answer all that you have stated and possibly I do not know how to answer everything you have stated. I am a believer that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father but I do not accept the explanation that "Elohim" is a "plural of Majesty".

I suggest that the occurrence of "Elohim" here gives some indication of the meaning of this word. It is not just simply an alternative word for "judges", but it indicates the wider range of the word "Elohim", showing that those who represent the One God, Yahweh can be addressed with this title. It is interesting that some modern translations translate "Elohim" here as "God":
Exodus 21:6 (NASB95): then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.

Exodus 22:8–9 (NASB95): 8 “If the thief is not caught, then the owner of the house shall appear before the judges, to determine whether he laid his hands on his neighbor’s property. 9 “For every breach of trust, whether it is for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, or for any lost thing about which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor.

Exodus 21:6 (ESV): then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

Exodus 22:8–9 (ESV): 8 If the thief is not found, the owner of the house shall come near to God to show whether or not he has put his hand to his neighbor’s property. 9 For every breach of trust, whether it is for an ox, for a donkey, for a sheep, for a cloak, or for any kind of lost thing, of which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before God. The one whom God condemns shall pay double to his neighbor.
It is interesting that the NASB does not seem to be consistent as it uses both "God" in the first reference and "the judges" in the second reference, while the ESV uses "God" in each reference.

I also suggest that this gives a clue to the application of the word "Elohim" to many occasions when an Angel appeared:
Exodus 3:2–6 (KJV): 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Just as the Judges represented God and were called "Elohim", the Angels represent God and speak and act on His behalf.

I believe that the One God, Yahweh, God the Father invited the Angels to participate in the creation of man in the image and after the likeness of God and the Angels. Verse 27 then is also correct as man is created in the image of God.

I consider the following is David's summary and commentary on Genesis 1:26-27 which states that Yahweh made man a little lower than the Angels (Elohim).
Psalm 8:1–6 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Here "Elohim" is used for the Angels who helped God in the creation of man.

My tentative understanding of the word "Elohim" and the plurality is that it speaks of the One God who delights to share his plan, purpose and work with others, including the Angels and Judges.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks for taking the time for your detailed response

From what I read in your response, it seems clear, that you are a "Unitarian", and opposed to the teaching of the Trinity

I don't think that you have fully grasped what I have said in my OP. If, as you and others argue, that the God of the Bible is only One Person, the Father, then there is no justification for the use of the Hebrew "˒ĕlōhı̂m", which is plural in number. Either “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, both singular, would be very clear if God is indeed "UniPersonal". There is simply no need to have used the plural form, over 600 times in the Old Testament, when the singular would leave no doubts about Who God really is, IF He is only One Person.

I don't see anywhere in the entire 66 Books of Inspired Scriptures, where humans are said to have been Created in the "image and likeness" of "angels", or any other "heavenly beings". Nor is there even a hint in the entire Bible, where angels are said to have "helped" God to Create? How can Created beings, angels, in any way "help" Almighty God? The term "Almighty" itself is clear, "absolute power, omnipotent".

In Hebrews chapter 1, we read of God the Father address Jesus Christ:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail" (verses 10-12)

These words are from Psalm 102, where it is used of the Creation by "˒ĕlōhı̂m";

"I say, “My God (˒ĕlōhı̂m), do not take me up in the midst of my days,” Your years [are] through all generations. You founded the earth before time, And the heavens [are] the work of Your hands. They perish, and You remain, And all of them become old as a garment, You change them as clothing, And they are changed. And You [are] the same, and Your years are not finished." (verses 24-27)

Genesis 1:1 says that "˒ĕlōhı̂m" Created the entire Universe. God the Father says that Jesus Christ Created the entire Universe.

Hebrews 2:10 says that God the Father Created the entire Universe;

"For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the originator of their salvation through sufferings"

Note here, that the Greek preposition, "δι’" is used twice, translated, "for whom", and "through whom". The same preposition is used for Jesus Christ in Creation in John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2, etc.

In Job 33:4, we read of Creation as the Work of the Holy Spirit;

“The Spirit of God has Made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

“made”, from the Hebrew verb, “asah”, which is used in Genesis 1

“in the beginning God created (bara) the heavens and the earth…God made (asah) the expanse” (Genesis 1:1, 7)

Genesis chapter 2, verses 3-4, “And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven”

In the Bible it is clear, that THREE distinct PERSONS, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, were jointly active in the Creation of the entire Universe. Which is why I argue that the Greek preposition, "δι’", must be rendered as "WITH", in places like John 1:3, Hebrews 1:2, etc, as more than One Person Created.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

what you call "obsessing", is actually very important to correctly understand what the Holy Spirit is saying through His Word.

In Matthew 1:1, The Amplified Bible has a note for "Jesus", "Heb Yeshua (Joshua), meaning The Lord is salvation. And for "Messiah", "Gr Christos. Greek for Messiah, which means Anointed One. Throughout his gospel, which is directed primarily to Jewish believers, Matthew uses OT Scripture to emphasize the fact that Jesus is their promised Messiah." There are many Bible Versions that have foot notes on various terms used, and there are also study Bibles for those who want to dig deeper

The problem is not "obsessing" itself, but obsessing with the wrong details. The meaning of the Lord's name (or title) is just one small example, others include the names of John the Baptist's family - Zechariah, Elizabeth and John himself in hebrew actually mean "God remembers", "God's oath", "grace or favor" in Hebrew, so when John the Baptist was conceived, that was when "God remembered his oath of grace". These have become common names in English, but without such information you'd never know such secrets.

As for God's name, elohim, that's more of a title than a name, and of course there are plenty of other lesser elohims who are in contention with the one and only Creator of the universe, and they'll be judged.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again SolaScriptura,

From what I read in your response, it seems clear, that you are a "Unitarian", and opposed to the teaching of the Trinity

I usually do not use the word "Unitarian" because this usually defines a particular group with particular ideas. On the other hand, if only used in the sense of believing that God is only one Person, not three, then there are a very wide range of different opinions. My definition is that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. As such I do not accept the idea that he existed before his conception.

I don't think that you have fully grasped what I have said in my OP. If, as you and others argue, that the God of the Bible is only One Person, the Father, then there is no justification for the use of the Hebrew "˒ĕlōhı̂m", which is plural in number. Either “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, both singular, would be very clear if God is indeed "UniPersonal". There is simply no need to have used the plural form, over 600 times in the Old Testament, when the singular would leave no doubts about Who God really is, IF He is only One Person.

If you use the same logic, then there is a conflict between the fact that "Eloah" is singular and describes the One God, Yahweh. How does "Eloah" allow three Persons? I am no Hebrew scholar, but at present I accept the possible meaning of the three words as "El" = Strength, Power, describing God as the source of all power. "Eloah" = Strong or Powerful One, and this word is based upon "El". Now one definition of "Elohim" is that it is the plural of "Eloah", and an actual literal translation would be Strong or Powerful Ones. The question is then, what is the significance of the plural form, and I have given my assessment that it represents the One God, Yahweh, God the Father who delights to share his purpose, plan and work with others, including the Angels and Judges. Seeing we are in the early chapters of Genesis, how to you understand/interpret the use of Elohim in the following?
Genesis 3:5 (KJV): For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:5 (NASB95): “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3:5 (ESV): For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Is the Serpent suggesting the Angels here, or God Himself? I suggest that the Serpent is referring to the Angels with whom Adam and Eve were acquainted with in the Garden.

I don't see anywhere in the entire 66 Books of Inspired Scriptures, where humans are said to have been Created in the "image and likeness" of "angels", or any other "heavenly beings". Nor is there even a hint in the entire Bible, where angels are said to have "helped" God to Create? How can Created beings, angels, in any way "help" Almighty God? The term "Almighty" itself is clear, "absolute power, omnipotent".

One piece of evidence is that when Angels appeared the word "man" is used, and the Angels were often mistaken for men at first. Anyway, from my perspective, as there is only One God, the Father, then the "us", "our", "our" is God speaking to others, and this MUST be the Angels as no other being is present in the Garden. Genesis 1:26-27 AND Psalm 8:5 is proof that God created man in his own image AND in the image of the Angels, as man is lower than the Angels. Yes, God's Power is absolute, but did God collect the dust, or did the Angels collect the dust to form Adam? Did God Himself operate on Adam to form Eve, or did the Angels help? Similar to but much greater than "Veni, vidi, vici". Has God used Angels and Prophets to announce his plan and purpose? He could speak directly from heaven.

In the Bible it is clear, that THREE distinct PERSONS, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, were jointly active in the Creation of the entire Universe. Which is why I argue that the Greek preposition, "δι’", must be rendered as "WITH", in places like John 1:3, Hebrews 1:2, etc, as more than One Person Created.

This is the part that I will not directly address, but I have heard different expositions of the various prepositions. You have your resources or your own specialist knowledge of Greek. I rely on some scholars. I understand that the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator Psalm 8:1-3, Matthew 11:25-30. I believe that Jesus is the Firstborn of the New Creation who was "made" Psalm 8:5.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I usually do not use the word "Unitarian" because this usually defines a particular group with particular ideas. On the other hand, if only used in the sense of believing that God is only one Person, not three, then there are a very wide range of different opinions. My definition is that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. As such I do not accept the idea that he existed before his conception.

You know, this "Unitarianism" vs "Trinitarianism" has more to do with identity politics than theology, it's weaponized to identify "us" and exclude "them", and that really is a disservice to God.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Carry_Your_Name,

You know, this "Unitarianism" vs "Trinitarianism" has more to do with identity politics than theology, it's weaponized to identify "us" and exclude "them", and that really is a disservice to God.

An interesting assessment, but I believe that God has revealed Himself sufficiently and asks us to worship Him correctly. My interest in the subject of the Name and Titles of God was awakened when I was 19 y.o., now 60 years ago when I attended a Young People's Study Weekend in the Southern Highlands of N.S.W. Australia. My understanding has progressed to some extent since then. I have a thread "The Yahweh Name" which is a brief summary of my understanding of some aspects of this subject. I am not really interested in discussing the Trinity, but I am interested in considering both "Yahweh" and "Elohim", two Hebrew words that have a large range of meaning, and I suggest that very few Trinitarians consider and understand this properly.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[CherubRam]

Meaning of Elohiym translated from Aramaic
The title "Elohiym / elohiym" is always plural.
I would like to point out that there is only one person who is truly a God; and that is Yahwah our Holy Father. The term (elohiym / gods) is used to mean that the person-s, have, or will have, life immortal. The term "gods" does not mean the people have any special powers.

Upper and lower case translation for the word elohiym.

Upper case: Elohiym, translation: (God of the living ones.) Referring to God, the Father of creation.

Lower case: elohiym, translation: (gods of The Living One.) Referring to the created beings whom have life immortal.

Translation is from the Aramaic.

 

[SolaScriptura]

"˒ĕlōhı̂m"Greetings again SolaScriptura,

I usually do not use the word "Unitarian" because this usually defines a particular group with particular ideas. On the other hand, if only used in the sense of believing that God is only one Person, not three, then there are a very wide range of different opinions. My definition is that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. As such I do not accept the idea that he existed before his conception.

If you use the same logic, then there is a conflict between the fact that "Eloah" is singular and describes the One God, Yahweh. How does "Eloah" allow three Persons? I am no Hebrew scholar, but at present I accept the possible meaning of the three words as "El" = Strength, Power, describing God as the source of all power. "Eloah" = Strong or Powerful One, and this word is based upon "El". Now one definition of "Elohim" is that it is the plural of "Eloah", and an actual literal translation would be Strong or Powerful Ones. The question is then, what is the significance of the plural form, and I have given my assessment that it represents the One God, Yahweh, God the Father who delights to share his purpose, plan and work with others, including the Angels and Judges. Seeing we are in the early chapters of Genesis, how to you understand/interpret the use of Elohim in the following?
Genesis 3:5 (KJV): For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:5 (NASB95): “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3:5 (ESV): For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Is the Serpent suggesting the Angels here, or God Himself? I suggest that the Serpent is referring to the Angels with whom Adam and Eve were acquainted with in the Garden.

One piece of evidence is that when Angels appeared the word "man" is used, and the Angels were often mistaken for men at first. Anyway, from my perspective, as there is only One God, the Father, then the "us", "our", "our" is God speaking to others, and this MUST be the Angels as no other being is present in the Garden. Genesis 1:26-27 AND Psalm 8:5 is proof that God created man in his own image AND in the image of the Angels, as man is lower than the Angels. Yes, God's Power is absolute, but did God collect the dust, or did the Angels collect the dust to form Adam? Did God Himself operate on Adam to form Eve, or did the Angels help? Similar to but much greater than "Veni, vidi, vici". Has God used Angels and Prophets to announce his plan and purpose? He could speak directly from heaven.

This is the part that I will not directly address, but I have heard different expositions of the various prepositions. You have your resources or your own specialist knowledge of Greek. I rely on some scholars. I understand that the One God, Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator Psalm 8:1-3, Matthew 11:25-30. I believe that Jesus is the Firstborn of the New Creation who was "made" Psalm 8:5.

Kind regards
Trevor

the singular “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah, is used when One Person of the Godhead is meant; and the plural "˒ĕlōhı̂m", when the Three are spoken of together.

Psalm 8:5 is not about God Creating humans in the "Image and Likeness" of "angels"; but, as seen in Hebrews 2:9, that for the duration of His Incarnate state, Jesus Christ was also "lower" than these Created angels, because of the fact that He suffered death on the cross, which the angels have not. Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:7, is very clear, that all humans are Created in the Image of God ONLY. As does James 3:9

You cannot get around the fact, that in Hebrews 1:10-12, God the Father says to Jesus Christ, that He is The Creator of the Universe. Creation is the Work of Almighty God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi the Bible says that humans are Created in the Image and Likeness of God. There is nothing about any "divine council", or "angels", or any of the "heavenly beings"

It is very clear from the Bible, that God the Father Created, as in Hebrews 2:10. In Hebrews 1:10-12, the Father addresses Jesus Christ as The Actual Creator, and applies the Old Testament passage of Creation by ˒ĕlōhı̂m, in Psalm 102:24-27, to Jesus Christ. In Job 33:4, Creation is the Work of God the Holy Spirit. So, the plural ˒ĕlōhı̂m is correctly used because there is more than One "Person" in the Eternal Godhead, as Paul says in Romans 1:20, "θειότης"

Great thread and I agree with all you've said.
But wouldn't you say that creation is the "work" of the 2nd Person?
The Son...the Logos? (and not the Holy Spirit).

Colossians 1:16-17
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I would like to point out that there is only one person who is truly a God; and that is Yahwah our Holy Father

the Old Testament is against this

Read the Prophecy of the Birth of the Lord Jesus Christ in Isaiah 9:6, where one of HIS Titles is, "“’êl Gibbôr”, which is "Mighty God". In the next chapter, 10:21, we have the Father Who is also called “’êl Gibbôr”. Clearly there are TWO distinct Persons Who are equally called “’êl Gibbôr”. There can be no difference in the meaning in either the Hebrew or English translation.

In fact, the older Jewish Rabbis, understood this passage to refer to The Messiah. In the 1st/2nd century AD, Rabbi Yose HaGelili, said of this passage:

“Thus rabbi Jose, of Galilee, says, ‘The name of the Messiah is שׁלום shâlôm, as is said in Isa 9:6, “Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.” ‘Ben Sira (fol. 40, of the Amsterdam Edition, 1679) numbers among the eight names of the Messiah those also taken from this passage, Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace. The later Jews, however, have rejected this interpretation, because the Messiah is here described as God” (Albert Barnes Commentary)

About the same time we have the Jewish Targum of Jonathan Ben Uziel the disciple of Hillel (110 BC-10AD; Bab. Meg. 32):

“The prophet saith to the house of David, A child has been born to us, a son has been given to us; and he has taken the law upon himself to keep it, and his name has been called from of old (from eternity, Pauli ed), Wonderful counsellor, Mighty God, He who lives for ever, the Anointed one (or, Messiah), in whose days peace shall increase upon us. Great shall be the splendour of them that observe the law, and of them that preserve peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to build it in judgement and in righteousness from henceforth and for ever: by the Memra of the Lord of hosts shall this be wrought” (Targum Jonathan Ben Uziel. J F Stenning; The Targum of Isaiah, p 32. Oxford 1953 ed, also, Rev. C. W. H. Pauli; Targum Jonathan Ben Uziel: The Chaldee Paraphrase on The Prophet Isaiah; pp.30, 31)

Clearly that the Prophecy is for Someone Who is Almighty God, Who is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.