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Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

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No you do not have to kill but would you even fight, let me ask you this what would you do if you were drafted ? And to the other comment I am not trying to shame anyone. As a matter of fact what would all of you do if you got drafted, would you fight or go to jail, which one would you all do ?

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:biggrinoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->[FONT=&quot]Go to jail of course. Or take whatever penalty the authorities deemed fit.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Just an article, don't go crazy.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]â€Wherever there have been fought wars, where pillaging, burning and bloodshed have taken place, the holy church has participated.â€[/FONT]

Indeed many wars have been fought in the name of religion. Biblical Christianity, however, is something completely different.
 
Does anybody remember the trouble, Cassius Clay=Muhammed Ali got in when he refused the draft. I found this article, but I remember it really well. And in my hippie days I was dead against any fighting, I protested the Vietnam war, we held many rallies, all kinds from drug hazed LSD and reefer smoking concerts to just straight out cussing the government out.


On This Day: Muhammad Ali Convicted of Draft Evasion



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June 20, 2010 09:00 AM
by Denis Cummings
On June 20, 1967, heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali was sentenced to five years in prison for refusing to serve in the military.
Religious Opposition Leads Ali to Draft Evasion


Afterwards, Ali read a statement explaining his actions: “I have searched my conscience and I find I cannot be true to my belief in my religion by accepting such a call. … If justice prevails, if my Constitutional rights are upheld, I will be forced to go neither to the Army nor jail. In the end I am confident that justice will come my way for the truth must eventually prevail.”

Two months later, a Houston jury took 21 minutes to convict Ali—still called Cassius Clay in court—of draft evasion. He was given a five-year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine. He would also be stripped of his passport and his heavyweight title, and was banned from fighting in the United States.

“Overnight he became a ‘nigger’ again,” said sportswriter and Ali promoter Harold Conrad, according to Time. “He threw his life away on one toss of the dice for something he believed in. Not many folks do that.”

Ali was free on appeal, and the judge told him that his sentence would likely be reduced. “Whatever the final sentence,” wrote Time, “it appears unlikely that Clay—still indisputably the best heavyweight in the world—will ever again be a championship contender.”

Later Developments: Clay v. United States; return to boxing


Ali spent the next three years free while his conviction was on appeal lecturing at universities and Muslim gatherings around the United States and gaining support as anti-war sentiment increased.

His appeal would reach the Supreme Court in 1971. In Clay v. United States, the Court ruled 8-0 that Ali met the three standards for conscientious objector status: that he opposed war in any form, that his beliefs were based on religious teaching and that his objection was sincere. His conviction was reversed.

He returned to boxing in 1970 in an unsanctioned bout against Jerry Quarry. In 1971, he fought undefeated champion Joe Frazier in “The Fight of the Century” for a record purse of $2.5 million. He lost a unanimous decision, but would beat Frazier in their 1974 rematch.

Later that year, he upset champion George Foreman to reclaim the heavyweight championship for the first time since it was stripped away in 1967.On This Day: Muhammad Ali Convicted of Draft Evasion
 
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I don't think we should compare the crucificition of Christ to men fighting in wars. It only cheapens the act of Christ ultimate sacrifice and the purpose of his non-resistance. Trying to justify non-resistance and anti-military sentiment by comparing it with the actions of Christ has no argument in it what so ever.
Christ himself said in John 18 vs 36 Jesus answered "My kingdom is not of this world: If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." I see Christ saying that there are things worth fighting for. Christ through his death was declaring the truth to all nations.
No one wants war, no one wants violence and destruction, but when circumstance forces people to defend themselves and there families then they have been given the God given right to protect themselves. Soloman who prayed for wisdom and was given wisdom from GOD, not from man. He said in verse 8: a time to love, and a time to hate: a time for war, and a time for peace. There are many Christians in the armed forces that I would not even compare myself to when it comes to their faith in Christ. Who am I to judge them, they are brothers and sisters in Christ. Its time to pray for them for wisdom when facing difficult decisions in the battlefields. We should be thanking them for their commitment to serve and protect our families, our churches and our country..
 
I want hear what you all think of Ali's flat out refusal to be drafted, did he have the right to do so ? Do you have the right to do so.

Does anybody remember the trouble, Cassius Clay=Muhammed Ali got in when he refused the draft. I found this article, but I remember it really well. And in my hippie days I was dead against any fighting, I protested the Vietnam war, we held many rallies, all kinds from drug hazed LSD and reefer smoking concerts to just straight out cussing the government out.


On This Day: Muhammad Ali Convicted of Draft Evasion



<form id="EBwidget_export" target="_blank" method="post" style="display: block; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; text-align: right;" action="http://www.easybib.com/cite/bulk"></form>
June 20, 2010 09:00 AM
by Denis Cummings
On June 20, 1967, heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali was sentenced to five years in prison for refusing to serve in the military.
Religious Opposition Leads Ali to Draft Evasion


Afterwards, Ali read a statement explaining his actions: “I have searched my conscience and I find I cannot be true to my belief in my religion by accepting such a call. … If justice prevails, if my Constitutional rights are upheld, I will be forced to go neither to the Army nor jail. In the end I am confident that justice will come my way for the truth must eventually prevail.”

Two months later, a Houston jury took 21 minutes to convict Ali—still called Cassius Clay in court—of draft evasion. He was given a five-year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine. He would also be stripped of his passport and his heavyweight title, and was banned from fighting in the United States.

“Overnight he became a ‘.......’ again,” said sportswriter and Ali promoter Harold Conrad, according to Time. “He threw his life away on one toss of the dice for something he believed in. Not many folks do that.”

Ali was free on appeal, and the judge told him that his sentence would likely be reduced. “Whatever the final sentence,” wrote Time, “it appears unlikely that Clay—still indisputably the best heavyweight in the world—will ever again be a championship contender.”

Later Developments: Clay v. United States; return to boxing


Ali spent the next three years free while his conviction was on appeal lecturing at universities and Muslim gatherings around the United States and gaining support as anti-war sentiment increased.

His appeal would reach the Supreme Court in 1971. In Clay v. United States, the Court ruled 8-0 that Ali met the three standards for conscientious objector status: that he opposed war in any form, that his beliefs were based on religious teaching and that his objection was sincere. His conviction was reversed.

He returned to boxing in 1970 in an unsanctioned bout against Jerry Quarry. In 1971, he fought undefeated champion Joe Frazier in “The Fight of the Century” for a record purse of $2.5 million. He lost a unanimous decision, but would beat Frazier in their 1974 rematch.

Later that year, he upset champion George Foreman to reclaim the heavyweight championship for the first time since it was stripped away in 1967.On This Day: Muhammad Ali Convicted of Draft Evasion
 
I don't think we should compare the crucificition of Christ to men fighting in wars. It only cheapens the act of Christ ultimate sacrifice and the purpose of his non-resistance. Trying to justify non-resistance and anti-military sentiment by comparing it with the actions of Christ has no argument in it what so ever.
Christ himself said in John 18 vs 36 Jesus answered "My kingdom is not of this world: If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." I see Christ saying that there are things worth fighting for. Christ through his death was declaring the truth to all nations.
No one wants war, no one wants violence and destruction, but when circumstance forces people to defend themselves and there families then they have been given the God given right to protect themselves. Soloman who prayed for wisdom and was given wisdom from GOD, not from man. He said in verse 8: a time to love, and a time to hate: a time for war, and a time for peace. There are many Christians in the armed forces that I would not even compare myself to when it comes to their faith in Christ. Who am I to judge them, they are brothers and sisters in Christ. Its time to pray for them for wisdom when facing difficult decisions in the battlefields. We should be thanking them for their commitment to serve and protect our families, our churches and our country..

thanks. i appreciate that.
i do believe like lewis some are called to be defenders of the weak, and helpess and to administer justice.

i believe that is my calling. but i aslo realise not all are that way. i do respect the pacifists. some arent called to be the protecters but rather the peacemaker. not that we arent all to be that way but some are more confrontational in thier nature.
 
Does anybody remember the trouble, Cassius Clay=Muhammed Ali got in when he refused the draft. I found this article, but I remember it really well. And in my hippie days I was dead against any fighting, I protested the Vietnam war, we held many rallies, all kinds from drug hazed LSD and reefer smoking concerts to just straight out cussing the government out.


On This Day: Muhammad Ali Convicted of Draft Evasion


<FORM style="TEXT-ALIGN: right; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; DISPLAY: block; PADDING-TOP: 0px" id=EBwidget_export method=post action=http://www.easybib.com/cite/bulk target=_blank></FORM>June 20, 2010 09:00 AM
by Denis Cummings
On June 20, 1967, heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali was sentenced to five years in prison for refusing to serve in the military.
Religious Opposition Leads Ali to Draft Evasion


Afterwards, Ali read a statement explaining his actions: “I have searched my conscience and I find I cannot be true to my belief in my religion by accepting such a call. … If justice prevails, if my Constitutional rights are upheld, I will be forced to go neither to the Army nor jail. In the end I am confident that justice will come my way for the truth must eventually prevail.”

Two months later, a Houston jury took 21 minutes to convict Ali—still called Cassius Clay in court—of draft evasion. He was given a five-year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine. He would also be stripped of his passport and his heavyweight title, and was banned from fighting in the United States.

“Overnight he became a ‘nigger’ again,” said sportswriter and Ali promoter Harold Conrad, according to Time. “He threw his life away on one toss of the dice for something he believed in. Not many folks do that.”

Ali was free on appeal, and the judge told him that his sentence would likely be reduced. “Whatever the final sentence,” wrote Time, “it appears unlikely that Clay—still indisputably the best heavyweight in the world—will ever again be a championship contender.”

Later Developments: Clay v. United States; return to boxing


Ali spent the next three years free while his conviction was on appeal lecturing at universities and Muslim gatherings around the United States and gaining support as anti-war sentiment increased.

His appeal would reach the Supreme Court in 1971. In Clay v. United States, the Court ruled 8-0 that Ali met the three standards for conscientious objector status: that he opposed war in any form, that his beliefs were based on religious teaching and that his objection was sincere. His conviction was reversed.

He returned to boxing in 1970 in an unsanctioned bout against Jerry Quarry. In 1971, he fought undefeated champion Joe Frazier in “The Fight of the Century” for a record purse of $2.5 million. He lost a unanimous decision, but would beat Frazier in their 1974 rematch.

Later that year, he upset champion George Foreman to reclaim the heavyweight championship for the first time since it was stripped away in 1967.On This Day: Muhammad Ali Convicted of Draft Evasion


I was not in the U.S at the time and was too young to remember anyway, but many years later I heard some of what he said, and I have to say I agreed with him.<O:tongue</O:tongue
 
I asked did he have a right to refuse, you are not a citizen so you have a right, didn't you say you are not a citizen Bazz ?
 
So Bazz if you are not a citizen, you have a right to refuse, but if you have been here for a longtime and you have not applied for American citizenship, but is enjoying freedom that this country affords you, there is a problem.
 
So Bazz if you are not a citizen, you have a right to refuse, but if you have been here for a longtime and you have not applied for American citizenship, but is enjoying freedom that this country affords you, there is a problem.

What problem? I see no problem......I am free regardless of where I happen to live. No man or Country gave me my freedom.....God did.<O:tongue</O:tongue
 
No man if you have been here as long as you have been, you should be a citizen, you are here in America, the greatest country in the world,and you talk about our government, who has not kicked you out, but has allowed you to enjoy everything that we enjoy. But for you to not be a citizen, and then talk about our government is a slap in the face to us, it is an affront to us.
 
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No man if you have been here as long as you have been, you should be a citizen, you are here in America, the greatest country in the world,and you talk about our government, who has not kicked you out, but has allowed you to enjoy everything that we enjoy. But for you to not be a citizen, and then talk about our government is a slap in the face to us, it is a affront to us.

Big deal.....I am a citizen of the Greatest Kingdom that will ever be, the one that will not only rule the world but the entire universe. What is puny America in comparison or any other for that matter? Nothing.

America is in its final stage.....it is declining and will cease to be what it was just as all man's governments of the past.<O:tongue</O:tongue
 
Well if you feel the way that you do about America, why are you here ? Right now we are not talking about the kingdom of God, we are talking about you, and your blatant disregard and disrespect for America. You said big deal, well it is a big deal to us. You keep talking about the kingdom, well the book of the kingdom says that you should obey the laws of the land and you are not, because you won't obtain citizenship.
 
Well if you feel the way that you do about America, why are you here ? Right now we are not talking about the kingdom of God, we are talking about you, and your blatant disregard and disrespect for America. You said big deal, well it is a big deal to us. You keep talking about the kingdom, well the book of the kingdom says that you should obey the laws of the land and you are not, because you won't obtain citizenship.

I am here because God has put me here for His purpose the same way He has placed His sons and daughters all over various parts of the world.....to be a light in this dark and ever increasingly dark world and to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom of God.....to be the salt of the Earth. He did not put us wherever we might be to talk about how wonderful the government where we are is.<O:tongue</O:tongue
 
You should not talk to American born citizens about their government, that is just blatant disrespect.
 
The truth is often an offense.<O:tongue</O:tongue

you dont have to answer this but if you are here illegally then how can that be off GOD? does he command us to break laws that he doenst really mention? and somewhere in this world you are a citizen of a country.

paul was a roman citizen by birth, and used it to do the lords work.
 
Yes Jason Bazz has no right to come into this country and talk about us to our faces, that is just no respect whatsoever, and I have a problem with that.
 

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