Bazz1040
Member
Who said that I was here illegally?.....I did not say I was......I would not want to be in any Country illegally.<O
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Should Christians Fight In Wars ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Who said that I was here illegally?.....I did not say I was......I would not want to be in any Country illegally.<O
</O
Bazz1040
Member
Would it be any more respectful if I said what I said outside of the Country? I am not a coward.....if I have something to say I say it face to face......I don't like talking about others behind their backs. <O
</O
K
kevingomez
Guest
Thats a good article an in depth response for this gnawing subject.
If there is no just war then what about the war at Armegaddon? when Christ will himself defeat the armies that come against Him and Israel?
(Rev 17:12 KJV) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
(Rev 17:13 KJV) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
(Rev 17:14 KJV) These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Kevin Gomez
Build Ministries
If there is no just war then what about the war at Armegaddon? when Christ will himself defeat the armies that come against Him and Israel?
(Rev 17:12 KJV) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
(Rev 17:13 KJV) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
(Rev 17:14 KJV) These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Kevin Gomez
Build Ministries
S
Strangelove
Guest
Yeah but Ed.....what happens if the reasons for going to war are fraudulent....and the soldiers only THINK they are protecting our families, our churches and our country...but in actual fact they are serving an utterly corrupt governement who's sole aim is to steal vast amounts of natural resources....earn billions of dollars through the war marketplace and secure a position of middle eastern territorial primacy?
S
Strangelove
Guest
Agree with him of course. What have we been saying in this whole thread dude?
S
Strangelove
Guest
Is killing 1 million innocent arab civilians 'defending the weak and helpless'?
Is that 'administering justice'?
S
Strangelove
Guest
Does Bazz seem like the kinda guy that is doing this for fun Lewis?
Does he seem like he wants to take a dig at America for kicks?
It is not blatant disrespect, quite the opposite.... it is TRUTH and LOVE.
A bitter pill for many.
S
Strangelove
Guest
Huh? He has EVERY right to do that.
Did the Apostle Paul have no right to travel to foreign lands and preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God?
Cos thats all the Bazzmeister is doing. And I applaud it. theres not enough people like him who want to speak hard truths to the hard headed.
jasoncran
Member
evidence. i want proof from you right know that says bush ordered the murder of civilians, documents.
where is the orders? i dont have that order when i was there. funny i helped more civilains then anything.
in fact we treated them! and thier animals!
did we bomb them? oh yeah nyt times did report stating that the iraquis killed each other more then u.s. did.
if you cant provide a legitimate evidence that is either from a u.n. council or legit newsources. not youtube phony videos but i will take some videos of an investigation.
then you need to repent of that sin, called lying and false acussations.
jasoncran
Member
Who said that I was here illegally?.....I did not say I was......I would not want to be in any Country illegally.<O
because you came across that way and you claim that you are no citizen of any country.
perhaps mandatory service for the immigrants if able is a good idea. and then when they do serve they get the citizenship. i have a co they did just that. he is now a u.s. citizen
heres the problem.
if i go to say australia on a visa, and i gripe and bellyache about how bad it is , one might assume that the aussies would get offended. rightly so. they doesnt mean that i dont have to agree with thier policies on everything, but i am not going to acusse them of something with flimsly evidence , call the govt that gives me healthcare(medicare and they treat immigrants) evil, and also lyiing and opressive.
rather i would be polite and see what the problem is adress that one and ask for help since as a non-citizen of that country i cant vote but i could seek recourse through friends.
i as a floridan hate when nyers gripe about how expensive it is, i want to tell them take I-95 north and dont come back.
they want something for nothing and they know how cheaper it is in florida then ny.
S
Strangelove
Guest
Is the Washington Post legitamate enough for you? And this was 5 years ago!!
Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000
By David Brown
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 11, 2006
A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.
The estimate, produced by interviewing residents during a random sampling of households throughout the country, is far higher than ones produced by other groups, including Iraq's government.
It is more than 20 times the estimate of 30,000 civilian deaths that President Bush gave in a speech in December. It is more than 10 times the estimate of roughly 50,000 civilian deaths made by the British-based Iraq Body Count research group.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html
S
Strangelove
Guest
Among the anecdotes in "Wiser in Battle: A Soldier's Story" is an arresting portrait of Bush after four contractors were killed in Fallujah in 2004, triggering a fierce U.S. response that was reportedly egged on by the president.
During a videoconference with his national security team and generals, Sanchez writes, Bush launched into what he described as a "confused" pep talk:
"Kick ass!" he quotes the president as saying. "If somebody tries to stop the march to democracy, we will seek them out and kill them! We must be tougher than hell! This Vietnam stuff, this is not even close. It is a mind-set. We can't send that message. It's an excuse to prepare us for withdrawal."
"There is a series of moments and this is one of them. Our will is being tested, but we are resolute. We have a better way. Stay strong! Stay the course! Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"
A White House spokesman had no comment.
McClellan Recounts Administration's Missed Chances After '04 Election - washingtonpost.com
jasoncran
Member
did bush order us to kill them? that is what you claim that is a side effect. that is like saying by having patrol neighborhoods more people die, why cause the gangster wouldnt have to shoot the cops and vice versa.
you assume that because we went there that bush ordered us to kill them, and claim that he did just that. he didnt. they died mainly because of the suicide bombers and the nyt times article is a recent as last month.
jasoncran
Member
and your point is that is what we do in war, fight. that is saying that if the enemy wants to stop the freeing of iraqui people and our mission there they will be stopped.
that isnt saying for us to shoot unarmed civilians.in fact i had standing orders not to( and i was in under BUSCH!)
roe states shoot only if threatened,and a guy walking by with a gun muzzle down isnt a threat.
jasoncran
Member
from the nyt times
The reports in the archive disclosed by WikiLeaks offer an incomplete, yet startlingly graphic portrait of one of the most contentious issues in the Iraq war — how many Iraqi civilians have been killed and by whom.
The reports make it clear that most civilians, by far, were killed by other Iraqis. Two of the worst days of the war came on Aug. 31, 2005, when a stampede on a bridge in Baghdad killed more than 950 people after several earlier attacks panicked a huge crowd, and on Aug. 14, 2007, when truck bombs killed more than 500 people in a rural area near the border with Syria.
But it was systematic sectarian cleansing that drove the killing to its most frenzied point, making December 2006 the worst month of the war, according to the reports, with about 3,800 civilians killed, roughly equal to the past seven years of murders in New York City. A total of about 1,300 police officers, insurgents and coalition soldiers were also killed in that month.
The documents also reveal many previously unreported instances in which American soldiers killed civilians — at checkpoints, from helicopters, in operations. Such killings are a central reason Iraqis turned against the American presence in their country, a situation that is now being repeated in Afghanistan.
The archive contains reports on at least four cases of lethal shootings from helicopters. In the bloodiest, on July 16, 2007, as many as 26 Iraqis were killed, about half of them civilians. However, the tally was called in by two different people, and it is possible that the deaths were counted twice. Read the Document »
In another case, in February 2007, an Apache helicopter shot and killed two Iraqi men believed to have been firing mortars, even though they made surrendering motions, because, according to a military lawyer cited in the report, “they cannot surrender to aircraft, and are still valid targets.†Read the Document »
The shooting was unusual. In at least three other instances reported in the archive, Iraqis surrendered to helicopter crews without being shot. The Pentagon did not respond to questions from The Times about the rules of engagement for the helicopter strike.
The pace of civilian deaths served as a kind of pulse, whose steady beat told of the success, or failure, of America’s war effort. Americans on both sides of the war debate argued bitterly over facts that grew hazier as the war deepened.
The archive does not put that argument to rest by giving a precise count. As a 2008 report to Congress on the topic makes clear, the figures serve as “guideposts,’ not hard totals. But it does seem to suggest numbers that are roughly in line with those compiled by several sources, including Iraq Body Count, an organization that tracked civilian deaths using press reports, a method the Bush administration repeatedly derided as unreliable and producing inflated numbers. In all, the five-year archive lists more than 100,000 dead from 2004 to 2009, though some deaths are reported more than once, and some reports have inconsistent casualty figures. A 2008 Congressional report warned that record keeping in the war had been so problematic that such statistics should be looked at only as “guideposts.â€
In a statement on Friday, Iraq Body Count, which did a preliminary analysis of the archive, estimated that it listed 15,000 deaths that had not been previously disclosed anywhere.
The archive tells thousands of individual stories of loss whose consequences are still being felt in Iraqi families today.
Misunderstandings at checkpoints were often lethal. At one Marine checkpoint, sunlight glinting off a windshield of a car that did not slow down led to the shooting death of a mother and the wounding of three of her daughters and her husband. Hand signals flashed to stop vehicles were often not understood, and soldiers and Marines, who without interpreters were unable to speak to the survivors, were left to wonder why. Read the Document »
According to one particularly painful entry from 2006, an Iraqi wearing a tracksuit was killed by an American sniper who later discovered that the victim was the platoon’s interpreter. Read the Document »
The archive’s data is incomplete. The documents were compiled with an emphasis on speed rather than accuracy; the goal was to spread information as quickly as possible among units. American soldiers did not respond to every incident.
And even when Americans were at the center of the action, as in the western city of Falluja in 2004, none of the Iraqis they killed were categorized as civilians. In the early years of the war, the Pentagon maintained that it did not track Iraqi civilian deaths, but it began releasing rough counts in 2005, after members of Congress demanded a more detailed accounting on the state of the war. In one instance in 2008, the Pentagon used reports similar to the newly released documents to tabulate the war dead.
This month, The Associated Press reported that the Pentagon in July had quietly posted its fullest tally of the death toll of Iraqi civilians and security forces ever, numbers that were first requested in 2005 through the Freedom of Information Act. It was not clear why the total — 76,939 Iraqi civilians and members of the security forces killed between January 2004 and August 2008 — was significantly less than the sum of the archive’s death count.
The archive does not have a category for the main causes of Iraqi deaths inflicted by Americans. Compared with the situation in Afghanistan, in Iraq aerial bombings seemed to be less frequently a cause of civilian deaths, after the initial invasion. The reports were only as good as the soldiers calling them in. One of the most infamous episodes of killings by American soldiers, the shootings of at least 15 Iraqi civilians, including women and children in the western city of Haditha, is misrepresented in the archives. The report stated that the civilians were killed by militants in a bomb attack, the same false version of the episode that was given to the news media.
Civilians have borne the brunt of modern warfare, with 10 civilians dying for every soldier in wars fought since the mid-20th century, compared with 9 soldiers killed for every civilian in World War I, according to a 2001 study by the International Committee of the Red Cross.
yes some civilians were killed and that sadly does happen as war is confusing at times. but nothing here states that as a policy we planned to do that.
The reports in the archive disclosed by WikiLeaks offer an incomplete, yet startlingly graphic portrait of one of the most contentious issues in the Iraq war — how many Iraqi civilians have been killed and by whom.
The reports make it clear that most civilians, by far, were killed by other Iraqis. Two of the worst days of the war came on Aug. 31, 2005, when a stampede on a bridge in Baghdad killed more than 950 people after several earlier attacks panicked a huge crowd, and on Aug. 14, 2007, when truck bombs killed more than 500 people in a rural area near the border with Syria.
But it was systematic sectarian cleansing that drove the killing to its most frenzied point, making December 2006 the worst month of the war, according to the reports, with about 3,800 civilians killed, roughly equal to the past seven years of murders in New York City. A total of about 1,300 police officers, insurgents and coalition soldiers were also killed in that month.
The documents also reveal many previously unreported instances in which American soldiers killed civilians — at checkpoints, from helicopters, in operations. Such killings are a central reason Iraqis turned against the American presence in their country, a situation that is now being repeated in Afghanistan.
The archive contains reports on at least four cases of lethal shootings from helicopters. In the bloodiest, on July 16, 2007, as many as 26 Iraqis were killed, about half of them civilians. However, the tally was called in by two different people, and it is possible that the deaths were counted twice. Read the Document »
In another case, in February 2007, an Apache helicopter shot and killed two Iraqi men believed to have been firing mortars, even though they made surrendering motions, because, according to a military lawyer cited in the report, “they cannot surrender to aircraft, and are still valid targets.†Read the Document »
The shooting was unusual. In at least three other instances reported in the archive, Iraqis surrendered to helicopter crews without being shot. The Pentagon did not respond to questions from The Times about the rules of engagement for the helicopter strike.
The pace of civilian deaths served as a kind of pulse, whose steady beat told of the success, or failure, of America’s war effort. Americans on both sides of the war debate argued bitterly over facts that grew hazier as the war deepened.
The archive does not put that argument to rest by giving a precise count. As a 2008 report to Congress on the topic makes clear, the figures serve as “guideposts,’ not hard totals. But it does seem to suggest numbers that are roughly in line with those compiled by several sources, including Iraq Body Count, an organization that tracked civilian deaths using press reports, a method the Bush administration repeatedly derided as unreliable and producing inflated numbers. In all, the five-year archive lists more than 100,000 dead from 2004 to 2009, though some deaths are reported more than once, and some reports have inconsistent casualty figures. A 2008 Congressional report warned that record keeping in the war had been so problematic that such statistics should be looked at only as “guideposts.â€
In a statement on Friday, Iraq Body Count, which did a preliminary analysis of the archive, estimated that it listed 15,000 deaths that had not been previously disclosed anywhere.
The archive tells thousands of individual stories of loss whose consequences are still being felt in Iraqi families today.
Misunderstandings at checkpoints were often lethal. At one Marine checkpoint, sunlight glinting off a windshield of a car that did not slow down led to the shooting death of a mother and the wounding of three of her daughters and her husband. Hand signals flashed to stop vehicles were often not understood, and soldiers and Marines, who without interpreters were unable to speak to the survivors, were left to wonder why. Read the Document »
According to one particularly painful entry from 2006, an Iraqi wearing a tracksuit was killed by an American sniper who later discovered that the victim was the platoon’s interpreter. Read the Document »
The archive’s data is incomplete. The documents were compiled with an emphasis on speed rather than accuracy; the goal was to spread information as quickly as possible among units. American soldiers did not respond to every incident.
And even when Americans were at the center of the action, as in the western city of Falluja in 2004, none of the Iraqis they killed were categorized as civilians. In the early years of the war, the Pentagon maintained that it did not track Iraqi civilian deaths, but it began releasing rough counts in 2005, after members of Congress demanded a more detailed accounting on the state of the war. In one instance in 2008, the Pentagon used reports similar to the newly released documents to tabulate the war dead.
This month, The Associated Press reported that the Pentagon in July had quietly posted its fullest tally of the death toll of Iraqi civilians and security forces ever, numbers that were first requested in 2005 through the Freedom of Information Act. It was not clear why the total — 76,939 Iraqi civilians and members of the security forces killed between January 2004 and August 2008 — was significantly less than the sum of the archive’s death count.
The archive does not have a category for the main causes of Iraqi deaths inflicted by Americans. Compared with the situation in Afghanistan, in Iraq aerial bombings seemed to be less frequently a cause of civilian deaths, after the initial invasion. The reports were only as good as the soldiers calling them in. One of the most infamous episodes of killings by American soldiers, the shootings of at least 15 Iraqi civilians, including women and children in the western city of Haditha, is misrepresented in the archives. The report stated that the civilians were killed by militants in a bomb attack, the same false version of the episode that was given to the news media.
Civilians have borne the brunt of modern warfare, with 10 civilians dying for every soldier in wars fought since the mid-20th century, compared with 9 soldiers killed for every civilian in World War I, according to a 2001 study by the International Committee of the Red Cross.
yes some civilians were killed and that sadly does happen as war is confusing at times. but nothing here states that as a policy we planned to do that.
S
Strangelove
Guest
From Guardian.co.uk - 'US soldiers started to shoot us, one by one' | World news | The Guardian
'US soldiers started to shoot us, one by one'
Survivors describe wedding massacre as generals refuse to apologise
Rory McCarthy in Ramadi The Guardian, Friday 21 May 2004 02.37 BST
"The bombing started at 3am," she said yesterday from her bed in the emergency ward at Ramadi general hospital, 60 miles west of Baghdad. "We went out of the house and the American soldiers started to shoot us. They were shooting low on the ground and targeting us one by one," she said. She ran with her youngest child in her arms and her two young boys, Ali and Hamza, close behind. As she crossed the fields a shell exploded close to her, fracturing her legs and knocking her to the ground.
She lay there and a second round hit her on the right arm. By then her two boys lay dead. "I left them because they were dead," she said. One, she saw, had been decapitated by a shell.
"I fell into the mud and an American soldier came and kicked me. I pretended to be dead so he wouldn't kill me. My youngest child was alive next to me."
Last edited by a moderator:
S
Strangelove
Guest
S
Strangelove
Guest
Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction PROOF!
Quick! Click this link!:
Cannot find Weapons of Mass Destruction
Quick! Click this link!:
Cannot find Weapons of Mass Destruction
S
Strangelove
Guest
George W Bush
Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003]
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Ali was free to do what he wanted and he did.
I don't care if i have the right to refuse or not. I will refuse irrespective.
As for “rights†there is no such thing. There are only privileges granted to the slaves by the authorities, at the authorities prerogative.
[FONT="]
All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]
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Ali was free to do what he wanted and he did.
I don't care if i have the right to refuse or not. I will refuse irrespective.
As for “rights†there is no such thing. There are only privileges granted to the slaves by the authorities, at the authorities prerogative.
[FONT="]
All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]