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[__ Prayer __] PJT in Japan
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Mike
Member
It's amazing to me that there can be such polar opposite assessments by professionals in the area of nuclear physics. I was listening to a the Sean Hannity radio show today, and he had a few people on who were in the field. There was one who felt the threats are being completely blown out of proportion. Being ignorant of all the science of this, my elementary assessment of the discussion was that the scholarship of this person appeared to be greater than his opponent. I'm not saying I side with what he said (I have no clue). I'm just saying the way he articulated it gave the impression that he really knew his stuff. I pray he's right.
If anyone's interested in hearing the "debate", you can probably go to his website and listen to the podcast. Not sure, though.
If anyone's interested in hearing the "debate", you can probably go to his website and listen to the podcast. Not sure, though.
Pizzaguy
Member
I am inclined to agree, that's why I made the remark above that I think the nuclear problems will be resolved.
Everyone keeps crying about a "core meltdown". Even if the core of one of the plants did "melt down" before they get the cooling pumps running, that does NOT mean the thing blows up and throws material into the air (like Cherynobol).
Cherynobol was a terrible disaster - but those reactors over there are of a different design AND were built with every safety feature the rest of the world (other than the old Soviet Union) uses.
I am no atomic engineer, but I AM following the discussion at the Spaceport and the postings by MITs nuclear science department. Seems like the only place you find doomsday scenarios are those written by reporters for the various media outlets. This is still a manageable problem and I say it again: I am confident this will be resolved soon - and MAYBE then the news can start to tell us about the REST of this natural disaster.
But still, my prayers go out to a country that is home to Yuki, a family member of mine.
Sure seems like a small world.
PJT: Everyone over there is in my thoughts and prayers. I have not heard from my son, this is not unusual, he usually calls about every other month. I expected the next call from him around the first of April.
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Pizzaguy
Member
A little perspective goes a long way...
Japan tsunami: Fallout from Japan nuclear disaster could reach U.S., but no danger expected - latimes.com
I still say this will be a non-story in the long run. The after effects of the earthquake and tsunami have already killed thousands - and that is where our concerns should be focused.
I STILL say the Japanese (along with those helping them) will get this under control soon, and the dire predictions will simply be forgotten - and remain unfulfilled.
Japan tsunami: Fallout from Japan nuclear disaster could reach U.S., but no danger expected - latimes.com
I still say this will be a non-story in the long run. The after effects of the earthquake and tsunami have already killed thousands - and that is where our concerns should be focused.
I STILL say the Japanese (along with those helping them) will get this under control soon, and the dire predictions will simply be forgotten - and remain unfulfilled.
Mike, this is the confusing part. When you`re sitting here in it and getting such a wide range of information it is very hard to determine what to believe especially when you`re not a scientist. The US Embassy has now chartered planes and is evacuating citizens to other parts of Asia but it is voluntary. We have not evacuated but I have gotten some things ready in the case we need to evacuate as a family. One person I know said these evacuations are just politically motivated to make the politicians look good because they are not really beneficial to the citizens. We are told to sign a paper that we will pay for the evacuations but we have no idea how much we are signing for. Some commercial flights out of Tokyo for a family of 4 has gone up to $40,000! The absolute lowest is around $20,000 and the embassy says the rate is comparable to commercial rates. We are also told we won`t have any food or water so to bring your own but you know how much liquid you can take on a flight so that`s useless. Then when you get to some destination in Asia you`re dropped of and told you are on your own. Nevertheless, foreigners are flocking to get out.
The nuclear plant seems to be doing better today although it is not completely out of the danger zone, but things seem to be stabilizing which is good. On the other hand, we are told to expect another big quake in the next few days because the plates under Tokyo are moving and that is NOT comforting because the epicenter of the last quake that hit so hard was in the ocean. I don`t want to think of a hard quake with its epicenter in Tokyo. But again we don`t know if this is really going to happen or not so that`s sort of how we hang. We get all sorts of information but nothing we can 100% feel secure with and some we don`t want to feel 100% secure with.
My biggest concern is we are told in my area radiation is 40 times above normal but we are told it is still safe so not to worry. 40 times seems an awful lot to me. My relatives in Osaka are asking us to come there and my parents in America are begging us to come there. So it is hard too when you have family worrying over you. This is Friday in Japan and tomorrow is my daughter`s kindergarten graduation. We will have to decide if we want to go there (a very big event).
One Japanese man standing in a long line to get food said just to buy a little something to eat feels wonderful. I think he echoed the feelings of so many people. My friend said she was able to buy a little bit at the store and she went home and danced with her children she was so happy. I also feel great gratitude everything I am able to give my family something to eat.
I remain encouraged with the spirit of the Japanese people. I think the Japanese are the prime example of how to handle a crisis. The people are very good to one another. Despite food shortages, everyone stands calmly in line knowing by the time they get to the front the food may be gone, but no one pushes, steals, fights, or cuts line. All are patient and slowly wait their turn. I hear reports of the Japanese hoarding but I`m not seeing that at all. People buy just a little of what they need and leave some for others. I saw a young man in a shelter with a lot of elderly people and he said he wasn`t going to abandon the elderly. He will stay until all the elderly get out. He said the elderly should be a first priority for care. I really liked his attitude because he is in an area with no water, food, electricity or gas other than what is brought in by the self defense forces which is VERY limited. Yet he is a strong, capable young man who can fend for himself but he`s thinking of the elderly who are not family or friends.
Some of the elderly are now dying in these shelters. It`s a tragedy because they made it through the big quakes, they escaped the tsunami (amazing!), and made it to a shelter only to die there. It is really sad.
I wish the Japanese were more touchy people. I think they could generate a lot more heat in these cold shelters if all the people would huddle together closely and generate body heat, but I am seeing everyone sitting or sleeping separately with distance between each other. I think it could make a difference in saving some of these elderly people`s lives if people would just throw off their inhibitions and huddle very closely together. My family is sleeping together at night and it really creates a lot of heat. Well, it is just a drop in the bucket but every drop can count in a situation like this.
Thank you again for everyone`s prayers.
Pizzaguy
Member
I am going to assume you wont' mind, I'm going to take your last post and post it over on thespaceport in our thread there about the (almost unreported) non-nuclear humanitarian crisis. Yours is an excellent example of a first-hand account.
Oh, and 40 times normal is just that, 40 times the NORMAL RADIATION - not 40 times what is safe. Obviously, safe levels are way higher than normal levels.
Oh, and 40 times normal is just that, 40 times the NORMAL RADIATION - not 40 times what is safe. Obviously, safe levels are way higher than normal levels.
No, I don`t mind your posting Pizza. My mind is a bit foggy right now so it is hard for me to wrap my mind around what 40 times means.
Pizzaguy
Member
It's 40 times NORMAL background radiation, which is WAY less than what is considered safe.
When you fly at 39,000 feet, you are exposed to several times normal background radiation. Dental xrays are even worse.
The amount of time spent at higher levels is important, not just how much you are exposed to, but for how long. Workers at plants under normal operation wear badges that sense and measure levels (for various reasons). If you are exposed to higher levels for EVER, that would be one thing - even if levels where you are, are higher than normal, it's not going to last long - they ARE making headway with this.
RF exposure is dangerous too. I have worked around strong RF for 30 years now, but I am careful about it. I have been exposed to WAY more RF than the average person, but still way LESS than is harmful.
"40 times" and "higher than normal" sound scary, but they are incomplete descriptions.
If I may ask, where ARE you? My daughter in law is in Tokyo and she says she is safe and not to worry.
When you fly at 39,000 feet, you are exposed to several times normal background radiation. Dental xrays are even worse.
The amount of time spent at higher levels is important, not just how much you are exposed to, but for how long. Workers at plants under normal operation wear badges that sense and measure levels (for various reasons). If you are exposed to higher levels for EVER, that would be one thing - even if levels where you are, are higher than normal, it's not going to last long - they ARE making headway with this.
RF exposure is dangerous too. I have worked around strong RF for 30 years now, but I am careful about it. I have been exposed to WAY more RF than the average person, but still way LESS than is harmful.
"40 times" and "higher than normal" sound scary, but they are incomplete descriptions.
If I may ask, where ARE you? My daughter in law is in Tokyo and she says she is safe and not to worry.
T
Theofilus
Guest
I looked up the word sievert (the unit used to measure radiation) on Wikipedia, and they have some information about levels of radiation people recieve from various sources, and also about what symptoms to expect, depending on dosage. You can read more at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert, but here are some excerpts:
Yearly dose examples
- Average individual background radiation dose: 2 mSv/year; 1.5 mSv/year for Australians, 3.0 mSv/year for Americans
Symptom benchmarks
Symptoms of acute radiation (within one day):
- 0 – 0.25 Sv (0 - 250 mSv): None
- 0.25 – 1 Sv (250 - 1000 mSv): Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged.
If normal background radiation is 2 mSv (milliSieverts) per year, and the current level is 40 times normal, that means that people are being exposed to radiation at a rate of 80 mSv/year. It would take over 3 years to be exposed to 250 mSv but, if I am understanding this correctly, you would have to be exposed to that level of radiation within a 24 hour period for it to have the effects listed.
In other words, 40 times normal background radiation sounds really bad, but it isn't going to make anyone sick.
jasoncran
Member
friends of mine are at that again so to speak. we dont need nuke in america. well i can see certain areas but..solar and wind are going to cut it.I believe Theo has it right.
Remember, this is supposed to be a possible "Three Mile Island". You remember, the "Nuclear disaster" that killed no one, and after 18 years of monitoring people - never did make anyone sick.
But is sure was big news at the time.
perhaps all these "greenies" need to get of the grid and move to africa. its one thing to be concerned but lets not overeact. No power system is danger free.
Pizzaguy
Member
Yea the ignorants who whine that we should go to electric cars are so out of it, that they don't understand that our current generation capacity is barely making it in the summer. Adding electric car chargers to the load - or removing nuclear generation will have the same effect - energy shortages.
Each square meter of solar panel produces MAYBE 150 watts on a good day, while the sun shines on it, at a cost of over $400 just for the panel (not counting batteries and inverters to make the power useful). I can buy a lot of coal/oil/nuclear generated power (at 7 CENTS per 1,000 watt-hours) for that amount of money!
The lack of science understanding and mathematics capability in this culture costs us SO much.
Pizzaguy
Member
I think he's (if you will forgive the phrase) "preaching", not teaching.
Of course, I have met people who think that 65 watts from a $400 solar cell will power their air conditioner!
And we both know that there are a lot of people teaching who are not qualified to do anything more than read from the textbook. 
2
Of course, I have met people who think that 65 watts from a $400 solar cell will power their air conditioner!
And we both know that there are a lot of people teaching who are not qualified to do anything more than read from the textbook. 2
tim-from-pa
Member
I doubt it. The axis point of the earth is not constant. I read somewhere that it moves around by about 50 feet or so. 4 inches is just a fraction of that.
BTW, I've been following this thread and am glad PJT in Japan is OK. The Lord was merciful. Hang in there.
Theo, we all have a loss of appetite, and I feel a little nautious and foggy headed but it could be stress with all the conflicting reports I`m getting and my parents so worried. My daughter`s appetite is coming back though which is good. My husband insists the Japanese media is right that we are at no health risks. I don`t know.
As for the present situation, the plants are at risk of exploding again which would release a lot of radiation we are told. But again we are told not to worry. Life seems to be carrying on as usual except a little more quiet.
But I must be brief because I have an idea I want to execute. When the media reported there may be another explosion, my husband`s very good friend called. He is a Japanese Christian who is like John the Baptist or Elijah. He is a real rock in the faith. His whole life is God and God alone. Anyway, he called and told my husband "As Christians we do not think about how long we live but how we live". He encouraged my husband to stand strong. As I thought of this, I thought "but what can I do?". Then a thought came to me. The people in the evacuation shelters are suffering miserably. Let this be a lesson, if any of you are ever in a crisis do your best never to be herded into an evacuation shelter and if you are get out ASAP. My sister was in Houston after Katrina and the people were sent to shelters there in a stadium. She said reports of rapes and violent fights happened when they turned the lights out at night. In Japan the situation is different, no medication, little food, little heat, little water, no sewage, etc. People are starting to die because of this situation so it occurred to me the best thing is for individuals to open their homes. If each home could take a few people it would help solve the problem. It goes against the grain of Japanese culture to do this but I can try and ask people. I know of a ministry that has a pass to go in this area. I am going to contact them and ask if they will start bringing people out if people will pledge to get them and provide a room in their home. I am going to then ask people I know if they will provide a space. My goodness, people can sleep on the living room floor of people`s homes and be better off than in these shelters. No one has to have anything fancy. In my area we still have food and gas shortages but we can do our best. In other areas of Japan life is going on as usual with no change. These would be the best places to relocate but will people open their homes? I will ask if the ministry will just agree to bring people out. This is all I can think I can do. I will try.
As for the present situation, the plants are at risk of exploding again which would release a lot of radiation we are told. But again we are told not to worry. Life seems to be carrying on as usual except a little more quiet.
But I must be brief because I have an idea I want to execute. When the media reported there may be another explosion, my husband`s very good friend called. He is a Japanese Christian who is like John the Baptist or Elijah. He is a real rock in the faith. His whole life is God and God alone. Anyway, he called and told my husband "As Christians we do not think about how long we live but how we live". He encouraged my husband to stand strong. As I thought of this, I thought "but what can I do?". Then a thought came to me. The people in the evacuation shelters are suffering miserably. Let this be a lesson, if any of you are ever in a crisis do your best never to be herded into an evacuation shelter and if you are get out ASAP. My sister was in Houston after Katrina and the people were sent to shelters there in a stadium. She said reports of rapes and violent fights happened when they turned the lights out at night. In Japan the situation is different, no medication, little food, little heat, little water, no sewage, etc. People are starting to die because of this situation so it occurred to me the best thing is for individuals to open their homes. If each home could take a few people it would help solve the problem. It goes against the grain of Japanese culture to do this but I can try and ask people. I know of a ministry that has a pass to go in this area. I am going to contact them and ask if they will start bringing people out if people will pledge to get them and provide a room in their home. I am going to then ask people I know if they will provide a space. My goodness, people can sleep on the living room floor of people`s homes and be better off than in these shelters. No one has to have anything fancy. In my area we still have food and gas shortages but we can do our best. In other areas of Japan life is going on as usual with no change. These would be the best places to relocate but will people open their homes? I will ask if the ministry will just agree to bring people out. This is all I can think I can do. I will try.
Before I sign out my husband just told me some good news. They got the pump to working so water is being pumped in and the radiation is going down. This is good news. If that is the case, there should not be another explosion. Just pray they can keep the water pumping. I don`t know about the other plants though. There are 6.
Pizzaguy
Member
PJT:
I just got this off the lastest update on the website of the Nuclear Energy Institute:
Radiation dose at the west gate of the Fukushima Daiichi was 83 millirem per hour on March 18 at 7:10 p.m. EDT and dropped to 36 millirem per hour by 8 p.m. EDT, Edano said. Radiation levels have decreased since March 16. Although they are higher than normal, radiation levels near the reactors are within the range that allows workers to continue onsite recovery measures, the International Atomic Energy Agency said.
According to the IAEA, radiation dose rates in Tokyo and other areas outside the 30-kilometer zone remain far below levels which would require any protective action by the public.
All reactors at the Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant are in cold shutdown (See the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum website).
Radiation levels have increased above the federal government's level in some food products from the Fukushima Prefecture and nearby areas. These levels were detected in samples of milk in Fukushima Prefecture and six samples of spinach in neighboring Ibaraki Prefecture, according to the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum. Edano said that if these products are consumed for a year, the total radiation dose would be equivalent to one CT scan.
Additional monitoring of food products is continuing in those regions.
UPDATE AS OF 9 P.M. EDT, FRIDAY, MARCH 18:
A World Health Organization spokesman said that radiation levels outside the 20-kilometer (12-mile) evacuation zone around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan are not harmful for human health. He said the WHO finds no public health reason to avoid travel to unaffected areas in Japan or to recommend that foreign nationals leave the country. He also said there is no risk that exported Japanese foods are contaminated with radiation.
The Japanese government issued an advisory on Tuesday for people to evacuate from a 12-mile zone around the plant, and also told people living within an 18-mile radius to stay indoors. Radiation levels at the plant boundary have been declining in the last day or so.
Got it here: http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandeven...anese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
I just got this off the lastest update on the website of the Nuclear Energy Institute:
Radiation dose at the west gate of the Fukushima Daiichi was 83 millirem per hour on March 18 at 7:10 p.m. EDT and dropped to 36 millirem per hour by 8 p.m. EDT, Edano said. Radiation levels have decreased since March 16. Although they are higher than normal, radiation levels near the reactors are within the range that allows workers to continue onsite recovery measures, the International Atomic Energy Agency said.
According to the IAEA, radiation dose rates in Tokyo and other areas outside the 30-kilometer zone remain far below levels which would require any protective action by the public.
All reactors at the Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant are in cold shutdown (See the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum website).
Radiation levels have increased above the federal government's level in some food products from the Fukushima Prefecture and nearby areas. These levels were detected in samples of milk in Fukushima Prefecture and six samples of spinach in neighboring Ibaraki Prefecture, according to the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum. Edano said that if these products are consumed for a year, the total radiation dose would be equivalent to one CT scan.
Additional monitoring of food products is continuing in those regions.
UPDATE AS OF 9 P.M. EDT, FRIDAY, MARCH 18:
A World Health Organization spokesman said that radiation levels outside the 20-kilometer (12-mile) evacuation zone around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan are not harmful for human health. He said the WHO finds no public health reason to avoid travel to unaffected areas in Japan or to recommend that foreign nationals leave the country. He also said there is no risk that exported Japanese foods are contaminated with radiation.
The Japanese government issued an advisory on Tuesday for people to evacuate from a 12-mile zone around the plant, and also told people living within an 18-mile radius to stay indoors. Radiation levels at the plant boundary have been declining in the last day or so.
Got it here: http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandeven...anese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/