LDS/Mormon Leaders Charge For Worthiness & Rob Poor

[Comprehender]

LDS Leaders Charge Extra $ For Worthiness & Rob Poor

This isn't anything new, but it's important for all (both lds "members" & "nonmembers") to realize...
LDS leaders warped the law of tithing in several ways:

1. Tithing was never commanded by Jesus & Jesus NEVER charged anyone for anything. He taught we have the kingdom of God within us, & not in churches or even temples... "know ye not that ye are the temple of God and the spirit dwells in you?"
To be considered celestially (top heaven) worthy and temple worthy, LDS leaders require members must pay 10% of their gross income to LDS leaders.

2. Deuteronomy 14:28-29 instructs that 1/3 of TITHES are to be given for those in need.
LDS leaders want to force members to obey the law of tithing, but only the part they like. They don't teach this scripture & infact have gone to the effort of hiding this scripture, leaving it out of LDS scripture book in the topical guides under "tithing." They have openly declared that tithes are not charity - but for building churches, temples & whatever the church wants to use it for. They have repeteatedly reminded members to pay their 10% to "the Lord" (to THEM) & to pay EXTRA for the poor (fast offering/humanitarian donations through the hidden church finances).

3. Scriptures state that tithes are based on "increase" & "interest"... NOT "income."
There is a difference.
IE: 2 men work at the same job, same income amount.
1 man lives at home & his parents pay all bills for him, thus all of his income is "increase."
The 2nd man is the sole provider of a family of 9 & after paying all necessities, has little left over as "increase/interest."
Yet, LDS leaders exploit, by demanding the same amount of money from each.

4. LDS leaders keep finances dark and secret, answering to nobody. They can spend money however & whenever they want and members cannot openly criticize without being excommunicated.



If you are currently giving LDS leaders tithes, please direct at least 1/3 to those in need (however you feel inspired). If you know anyone else who is, please encourage them to do so as well.
There are many suffering...almost 1 BILLION chronically hungry, tens of thousands dying EVERY DAY.
There are many ways to help & many hands make light work!

 

[Pizzaguy]

2. Deuteronomy 14:28-29 instructs that 1/3 of TITHES are to be given for those in need.

What church does THAT? None that I have been in, over the pat 35 years gives 1/3 to the poor.

 

[Comprehender]

What church does THAT? None that I have been in, over the pat 35 years gives 1/3 to the poor.

Good point, Pizzaguy.
I've never heard of any church doing that either, although I've known many people who do.
I wish churches did give at least 1/3 of donations to those in need as instructed in Deut 14:28-29.
If they did, they'd be more God-like.

The LDS church is unique in that it charges its members for worthiness.
In the LDS/Mormon church, tithing (10% of members' gross income) is not considered optional - but mandetory to be a "member in good standing" & to be included in certain meetings, rituals and callings & LDS leaders teach that members must pay this percentage of their income to THEM, in order to be worthy of the celestial kingdom and to enter the LDS temple.
I don't know any other church that is so strict, corrupt & extreme as the LDS/Mormon church is regarding tithing, & still brags of being the "only true & living church on earth."

 

[heymikey80]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/...angelical-leaders-say-bible-requires-tithing/

42% of evangelical groups say the Bible requires tithing.

It may be useful to note as well, Judaism considers tithing a requirement (as it is admittedly law). Islam has a tithing type of requirement as well.

 

[Comprehender]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/...angelical-leaders-say-bible-requires-tithing/

42% of evangelical groups say the Bible requires tithing.

It may be useful to note as well, Judaism considers tithing a requirement (as it is admittedly law). Islam has a tithing type of requirement as well.

Thanks for this, HeyMikey (from the commercial? )

I found this quote interesting...

“Most Christians would say the laws of the Old Testament are not what save you – you’re supposed to be giving out of a spirit of freedom, not because you’re bound to laws,”

Jesus taught that the 2 greatest commandments are to love God & love others as ourselves... "on these 2 commandments hang all the law & the prophets." -Matt 22:40
Jesus taught parables like the good Samaritan & dividing the sheep from the goats... by whether they loved & cared for others or not. So, I really think that tithes (at least a good percentage of tithes... 1/3 according to Deut 14:28-29) should be exclusively for those in need.

And there are plenty in need!
The World Health Org. states that almost 1,000,000,000 are chronically hungry!
Tens of thousands die EVERY DAY - it doesn't make the news, but it's happening!

 

[proveallthings]

The LDS church is unique in that it charges its members for worthiness.
In the LDS/Mormon church, tithing (10% of members' gross income) is not considered optional - but mandetory to be a "member in good standing" & to be included in certain meetings, rituals and callings & LDS leaders teach that members must pay this percentage of their income to THEM, in order to be worthy of the celestial kingdom and to enter the LDS temple.
I don't know any other church that is so strict, corrupt & extreme as the LDS/Mormon church is regarding tithing, & still brags of being the "only true & living church on earth."

Forgive me Comprehender, but your comments make it very obvious that the law of tithing happened to be something that was a struggle for you. It sure looks like these bitter feelings and false accusations help cover your guilty conscience. You say that the tithing of Latter-day Saints goes to THEM, as if the leaders use the money for their own benefit. Can you identify any general authority of the church that has gotten rich from the tithes of the church? Of course you can't. It simply has never happened. I know from personal experience that the presidents of the church during my lifetime have all lived very simple frugal lives. They literally wore out their lives in the service of Christ. You should read their biographies or talk with people who saw or see them day to day. I know several people who have.

 

[Comprehender]

Forgive me Comprehender, but your comments make it very obvious that the law of tithing happened to be something that was a struggle for you. It sure looks like these bitter feelings and false accusations help cover your guilty conscience. You say that the tithing of Latter-day Saints goes to THEM, as if the leaders use the money for their own benefit. Can you identify any general authority of the church that has gotten rich from the tithes of the church?

Yes, all of them are paid by tithes of the church members.
Infact, they are the ONLY paid "callings." The rest of us serve out of our own time, talents & resources.

ANd as mentioned, those in charge of tithes (the top leaders) steal from both members and those in need.
1. They hide the scripture, Deut 14:28-29 that states that TITHES are to be shared with those in need & they don't follow this (& clearly tell members that tithes are not for those in need - See Oak's talk).
2. They charge for worthiness & on top of that, they charge too much! Tithing is supposed to be based on interest/increase... NOT income (explained previously in this thread).

And BTW... I currently pay more tithes than 10%... but not a penny to thieves.
You accusing me of "struggling" with the law of tithing & being bitter is a good example of LDS cult members attempts to shame someone into compliance or to shut up.

 

[AirDancer]

Sorry ... this seems to be a rather unusual means for attacking Mormons.

Many churches I've attended, whether as a member or as a guest, encourage members to tithe 10% of their total income (interest and all). This is to assist church leadership to have a fair yet incomplete idea of what sort of money the church will have in order to function.

In these churches, money to pay the minister and associate minister comes out of these tithes. Once paid, the minister does not have to report how he spends the money.

Assisting the needy within the congregation derives from the tithes as well. Support of missionary works ... building upkeep ... et al ..... all come from the tithes.

Slamming the Mormons on this issue is not a particularly shining moment.

 

[Comprehender]

It's not a shining moment when you are socially labeled "unworthy" because you haven't paid your 10% of gross income to leaders who hide finances & use them to build corporations.

It's not a shining moment when you are living a Christ-like life, including sharing your tithes with the poor, but because you don't give it all to the LDS church leaders, you are denied being able to attend your family's temple wedding.

It's not a shining moment to realize church leaders (who you were raised to follow) purposefully deceived you & others, by hiding Deut 14:28-29 from church curriculum. (This scripture specifically states 1/3 of tithes are to be given to the poor, which is admittedly not done by LDS church leaders).

It's not a shining moment for the almost 1,000,000,000 who are chronically hungry & tens of thousands die of related hunger problems... when the church claiming to be the one & only true church of Jesus Christ doesn't share tithes with them, despite biblical instruction to.

I realize other church leaders use this same financial scam... & that sometimes money is handled in honest, Christlike ways. However, Mormonism is unique in that paying tithing affects one's "worthiness" & social acceptance, as well as the leaders are dishonest in handling it, keeping financial records, even from LDS members.
My understanding is that this subsection of the forum is about Christianity and other specific religions & therefore need not be about ALL Christian churches.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Um, my sister has not been able to give any money to the church for over two years. She is an LDS member and has moved to a new 'ward'. That ward sends missionaries over to give her "sacrament" at no charge. (They were there yesterday while I visited her.)

I think you are painting with too broad of a brush here.

 

[Comprehender]

Um, my sister has not been able to give any money to the church for over two years. She is an LDS member and has moved to a new 'ward'. That ward sends missionaries over to give her "sacrament" at no charge. (They were there yesterday while I visited her.)

I think you are painting with too broad of a brush here.

If this thread's topic were Mormonism in general, I would be.
But it's not: It's about how Mormon leaders charge for worthiness & rob the poor.
I've given so much to the church, & like many others, have even gotten into debt to pay tithing. We're taught (by LDS leaders) that we are to pay 10% of our "income" (even though scriptures state "increase") to the leaders before any other bills are paid.

People in the church are unique & vary - like anywhere. Some are really Christ-like & don't care if your sister follows the religion to a T... others are not so much. However, one thing is clear: By the church leader/"prophet's" instruction & curriculum, if she is not a "full tithe payer" she will not be able to go to the temple & if she can't be temple worthy, she can't have certain callings & is considered unworthy of the celestial kingdom (top heaven).

It's wrong.
That doesn't mean everything about the church is wrong, though.
When I was in the hospital, some "priesthood holders" (men) came & brought the sacrament to me. Many times, me or my family have been helped by others from our ward (lds congregation). I also have served a lot - gone out of my way to love other members. It's a great sense of community. I also like the high standards (no alchohol, no sex before marriage etc.).

The 2 main issues I have with Mormonism are:
1. Financial corruption.
2. Cognitive distortions (which is another topic), but explains why Utah (predominantly LDS) leads the nation in anti-depressants.

I still go to church every Sunday, but I now share tithes directly with those in need. I also serve in 3 callings (volunteer church jobs) that I regularly do, besides helping out at ward activities when needed.

 

[Pizzaguy]

2. Cognitive distortions (which is another topic), but explains why Utah (predominantly LDS) leads the nation in anti-depressants.

I'd like to hear about that.

I admit my view of the LDS church is tainted by my sister's experience, but from what I have heard from her, I am impressed by those of the LDS church.

I just think they get a lot of stuff wrong.

 

[Comprehender]

I'd like to hear about that.

I admit my view of the LDS church is tainted by my sister's experience, but from what I have heard from her, I am impressed by those of the LDS church.

I just think they get a lot of stuff wrong.

I'm glad you're impressed with those in the LDS church (which is different from the top/paid general authorities). I also am impressed which is why I still go. That, & I've agreed to, so we can keep our family somewhat intact.
I figure that all religions are somewhat fiction & not perfect... so it's a matter of picking what works for you (sorting through with logic & intuition).

A while ago, I posted a thread about cognitive distortions related to my experience in church & I believe they apply to other churches as well, although maybe to a different extent.
Here's the thread:
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=43034&p=651603&highlight=#post651603

 

[AlexLee]

I am an ex-Mormon, and tithing is a serious issue with many members for and against. While paying 10% for someone on low income as I am was a needed chunkout of my money each month it paled in comparison to the annual meeting with the bishop to check to see if your tithes were up-to-date. Meeting a tax official was less painful.

Yes,the tithes were meant to help the needy, pay for missionaries and buid temples, so who, in the Church got a revelation to build a shopping mall???

I'm not knocking the LDS (leave that to the multitude of anti mormon sites out there), but. This tithing issue, and no one "official" being able to have their story straight was one of the reasons left.

Abraham paid tithes of all, but I think it was Jacob who gave 10% of what he had. But I'm sure that was annually.

 

[heymikey80]

Thanks for this, HeyMikey (from the commercial? )

Yeah, it's a twist on the old commercial -- who could resist: "He likes it!" Get Life ... :D

I found this quote interesting...

“Most Christians would say the laws of the Old Testament are not what save you – you’re supposed to be giving out of a spirit of freedom, not because you’re bound to laws,”

Jesus taught that the 2 greatest commandments are to love God & love others as ourselves... "on these 2 commandments hang all the law & the prophets." -Matt 22:40
Jesus taught parables like the good Samaritan & dividing the sheep from the goats... by whether they loved & cared for others or not. So, I really think that tithes (at least a good percentage of tithes... 1/3 according to Deut 14:28-29) should be exclusively for those in need.

There's definitely a wide range of opinion where the tithe goes in Christianity.

Plus given the followon postings it looks as if the LDS church is very intrusive into private finances, something my family association with it would probably not mention to me.

And there are plenty in need!
The World Health Org. states that almost 1,000,000,000 are chronically hungry!
Tens of thousands die EVERY DAY - it doesn't make the news, but it's happening!

Interestingly, worldwide international polling now identifies corruption as the #1 problem (acc. an RZIM program, followed I think by hunger and poverty).

 

[Comprehender]

I am an ex-Mormon, and tithing is a serious issue with many members for and against. While paying 10% for someone on low income as I am was a needed chunkout of my money each month it paled in comparison to the annual meeting with the bishop to check to see if your tithes were up-to-date. Meeting a tax official was less painful.

Yes,the tithes were meant to help the needy, pay for missionaries and buid temples, so who, in the Church got a revelation to build a shopping mall???

I'm not knocking the LDS (leave that to the multitude of anti mormon sites out there), but. This tithing issue, and no one "official" being able to have their story straight was one of the reasons left.

Abraham paid tithes of all, but I think it was Jacob who gave 10% of what he had. But I'm sure that was annually.

I think I know where you're coming from (except the pagan valley thing. ).
The LDS leaders have corrupted the "law of tithing" in 2 ways:
1. Overcharging...
it's supposed to be based on increase, NOT income... when it's based on increase... it's what you can afford & doesn't contribute to poverty. When it's based on income, it can be beyond what you can afford & DOES contribute to poverty.

2. Deut 14:28-29 states that tithes are to be given to the poor, but leaders (ie Dallin H. Oaks) have clearly stated that not a penny of tithes go to charity & that members are to give extra for charity.

 

[Comprehender]

Yeah, it's a twist on the old commercial -- who could resist: "He likes it!" Get Life ... :D

There's definitely a wide range of opinion where the tithe goes in Christianity.

Imagine... if God (who is love) established a monetary system based on love.
How would tithes be spent then?
Maybe that's why Jesus never counted out tithes... all he did was in love.

Plus given the followon postings it looks as if the LDS church is very intrusive into private finances, something my family association with it would probably not mention to me.

Yes, & this intrusion (along with many other cognitive distortions & dysfunctional behavior) is done in such mass, that the peer pressure makes everyone comfortable with it since "everyone's doing it."

Interestingly, worldwide international polling now identifies corruption as the #1 problem (acc. an RZIM program, followed I think by hunger and poverty).

Yeah... which implies that if money was spent, it may be for naught anyway.
Still... "where there's a will, there's a way!"
The LDS church has spent a lot of resources on improving proceletyzing missionary efforts... why not spend that on humanitarian efforts?
A couple of friends (LDS) have been doing extensive humanitarian work (independent of the church) in a very poor area & were complaining how difficult it is to get honest, hard working volunteers. I suggested how nice it would be if the church helped prepare young missionaries for humanitarian missions, instead of sales for increasing church membership numbers & tithing revenue.

 

[heymikey80]

Imagine... if God (who is love) established a monetary system based on love.
How would tithes be spent then?
Maybe that's why Jesus never counted out tithes... all he did was in love.

I would think that I've seen a couple of my churches do this ... and do it better than I know how. We have people educated and experienced in social work dealing with mercy ministries at my current church. I could never recognize and respond to all the things these people have become sensitive to.

Still, there's a lot of corruption out there. There's also the misimpression that "poor" is related to how much money you make. The PCA published a book on the diaconal mercy ministry years ago, I still have it, that upended a lot of my thinking.

Yes, & this intrusion (along with many other cognitive distortions & dysfunctional behavior) is done in such mass, that the peer pressure makes everyone comfortable with it since "everyone's doing it."

It is concerning. Frankly, it can be done well though. The largely volunteer ministry of stakes is at least a minor deterrent.

The LDS church has spent a lot of resources on improving proceletyzing missionary efforts... why not spend that on humanitarian efforts?
A couple of friends (LDS) have been doing extensive humanitarian work (independent of the church) in a very poor area & were complaining how difficult it is to get honest, hard working volunteers. I suggested how nice it would be if the church helped prepare young missionaries for humanitarian missions, instead of sales for increasing church membership numbers & tithing revenue.

I think this is a double-whammy. I've seen stakes be very humanitarian and they have a lot of resources to help in my area. I've also seen the emphasis on doing so within their own churches, among members. They seem introverted when it comes to humanitarianism.

OTOH, they don't have a lot of control and probably less experience with those freed from LDS control. So I kind of understand the issue. It's harder to grow through tough situations where there's greater chance of failure.

I'm suspicious of the power structure of the LDS, because everyone's sinful. But I also understand, there are significant issues in mercy ministry that easily drain resources, no matter how it's regulated.

So I'd think Jesus' way would be far more personal than the hierarchical regulation of mercy ministries by the LDS. It's just tough to regulate unless you have strong experience at every point.

 

[Comprehender]

...Still, there's a lot of corruption out there. There's also the misimpression that "poor" is related to how much money you make. The PCA published a book on the diaconal mercy ministry years ago, I still have it, that upended a lot of my thinking.

You've peeked my interest.
How do you define "poor" now?
Are you referring to spiritual/social etc. poverty... or rather a lack of resources (clean water, education etc.)?

So I'd think Jesus' way would be far more personal than the hierarchical regulation of mercy ministries by the LDS. It's just tough to regulate unless you have strong experience at every point.

Yeah, I think the structure of the church locally is pretty good within the church - each member is taken care of if all things run well. Still, as you mentioned, it's introverted/focused mostly on their own members. It would be nice to see more reaching out to everyone, not just members. Of course, in Utah, you don't have much choice. - Unless of course, you go abroad & there are humanitarian activities, but as one humanitarian missionary mentioned... (as we were stuffing humanitarian kits lol)... it's better to buy the stuff on location than to pay to ship it all across the world. But the reality is that most people want something out of their charity work - to take an active part in it so they can feel first hand like they've made a positive difference.

I agree that Jesus' way would be more personal. He was more humble than most of the higher LDS "prophets"/leaders who are praised (practically worshipped) too much & not required enough accountability of.

 

[heymikey80]

You've peeked my interest.
How do you define "poor" now?
Are you referring to spiritual/social etc. poverty... or rather a lack of resources (clean water, education etc.)?

Well, in the context it pointed out that people were poor because they couldn't handle their own needs. This included people below the poverty line, yes, but also extended to people who didn't understand management of money, no matter how much their income was, otherwise. The book also pointed out that there are needs that aren't met by dollars & cents. People who are poor are also not receiving these needs, either: love among them.

The book was impressive in its explanations. At least it impressed me.

Yeah, I think the structure of the church locally is pretty good within the church - each member is taken care of if all things run well. Still, as you mentioned, it's introverted/focused mostly on their own members. It would be nice to see more reaching out to everyone, not just members. Of course, in Utah, you don't have much choice. - Unless of course, you go abroad & there are humanitarian activities, but as one humanitarian missionary mentioned... (as we were stuffing humanitarian kits lol)... it's better to buy the stuff on location than to pay to ship it all across the world. But the reality is that most people want something out of their charity work - to take an active part in it so they can feel first hand like they've made a positive difference.

Being something of an introvert it's kind of hard for me to feel this motivation, but I agree, I've seen it. The dollar doesn't really always reflect the feeling or the participation that people feel. We've even sent missionaries ... 20 miles away ... at some formidable costs I might add, simply to be personally involved in service to those in need.

I don't know personally how this relates to Mormon service work, nor its workfare policies. It's largely been stated in inviting terms the way I've heard it.

On the other hand, my encounters with real Mormons have run quite a range, all the way down to unflattering witness to people under the thumbs of others in their families.

I agree that Jesus' way would be more personal. He was more humble than most of the higher LDS "prophets"/leaders who are praised (practically worshipped) too much & not required enough accountability of.

I really wish I could gather a better insight into Jesus' compassion. One of the books I've relied on for years, a sample chapter is available on-Web.

Love Walked Among Us, Paul Miller

It's not that I'm great at any of this, I'm constantly finding out how little I know about this stuff. Much of my background is unrelated to it.