Gary
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Healing and visions?
- Thread starter Blain
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B
Brother Mike
Guest
No scripture that suffering produces character
No scripture that suffering is sickness (people add that)
No scripture that suffering comes from God. If not God, then we don't want it.
The gift of healing is a Holy spirit gift. Not our gift. It was God that brought miracles through Paul, not Paul using healing at will. It was Peters faith in the name of Jesus that made the man whole. Not Peters gift of healing, the man also looked up expecting.
Same name today with no loss of power.
Gift of healing is a operation of the Holy spirit as the Spirit wills. The prayer of faith still saves the sick and the word still produces what God said it will produce. People can still recover and rise up.
It's a ministering gift that produces instant results for ministering. It's best to stand and believe God through something as that produces experience, and experience hope. I can share that with someone and tell them what I did to stand in faith. God instantly healed me through a gift is not much experience.
Yes, I do believe that. They needed to establish their message. And the power they had was from God, which established their authority and message of the Messiah.
I do not need to heal or speak in tongues to establish my witness, I have the completed canon of scripture,the living word. I need to have nothing else to establish my witness. Even the Spirit within me testifies only of the written word.
We just happen to firmly believe (and practice) that God specifically and demonstratively answers direct, face-to-face confrontation of sickness in a person. But He also heals through simple prayer... even long-distance.... and no doubt, through many other means.
We do the "hands-on" stuff mostly with total strangers on the street (Maybe 80% non believers) because we believe that is still part of the ministry of every one of us as we go through our day. It STILL opens people's eyes to the now and present power of God. A large percentage of our denomination are Christians mainly because they either were healed by (through) one of us stepping out in faith, or they watched it happen to someone else.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
yes, the Word is all authority, and certainly we don't want to use the gifts of God to draw attention to ourselves. However, I would re-examine that thought that you need nothing else.
People do need healed, need a word from God, need the power of peace come supernaturally, need prayer for things you don't know about through the Holy Spirit.
Amen! We can get so confused simply thinking all we are supposed to do, or need to be doing, is just "preach the word at 'em."
The Hindus have something like this in the caste system that they believe in.
Don't help people, they are suffering for a reason.
If a person doesn't believe that the Bible is alive, then to them it is dead.
How sad is that?
If people would just learn bible doctrine!
We need to discern when to help. And Bible doctrine teaches us how to discern. We could win 200 million dollars and give huge gifts to everyone we know. Giving a huge gift to one person is a help, to the other it will kill them.
1 Peter 4:19 (NASB95)
19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
We need to discern who and what we pray for. We may be praying suffering away from someone who will be blessed by it. And it in no way entails NOT HELPING the person. We can try to make them more comfortable and we can give them the LIVING word to comfort them.
We may be praying away someones glorifying of God:
1 Peter 4:16 (NASB95)
16 but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.
We may be praying away Gods favor for someone:
1 Peter 2:19 (NASB95)
19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
We may be praying away someones blessings:
1 Peter 3:14 (NASB95)
14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear theirintimidation, and do not be troubled,
That is why I said we need to be careful. We need to understand Gods will and Help from the doctrine in our soul. Not by our emotions and what we would rather have done.
It's sad. But it's to be understood. We all have to dig out of the hole of our "teaching" at our own rates.
That is part of the reason why I don't think The Gift of healing is part of christiandom after 96 AD. We have the living and completed word, Men do not need to heal today to "prove" the living word. The Word is alive and powerful, the word can stand alone.
Gary
Member
Is it your belief that the only reason the disciples healed anyone was to prove the Word of God?
.
Its a loaded yes. But Yes. Lots of benefits and lots of blessings were bestowed upon people because of the love of God in establishing his authority and message.
If you believe in loss of salvation and add to "Faith alone in Christ alone." I would really have to discern where the healing was coming from and who was doing the "healing." Because it is the message that counts, not the healing.
Gary
Member
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Your right, we need to "DISCERN" right bible doctrine, whatever that is by the Holy Spirit.
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
(1Pe 4:19)
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(Heb 10:36)
This is not saying it's God's will they suffer. It's saying those that are doing the will of God, if they suffer, let them keep doing well as God is faithful. IN other words, God will see to it you don't continue to suffer.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
(Gal 6:9)
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
(1Ti 6:12)
Doing the will of God is going to be a fight of faith, it can make you weary, it can get you frustrated if you allow it. There is a fight, and it will come.
Nothing in there about sickness or God wanting you sick.
The whole thing............. cough... cough..
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
(1Pe 4:14-16)
Paul said pray, that the Word have a free course, a person suffering for preaching the Word as doing Good, we pray for them. Once again, this is not some sickness, it's someone that is doing right and gets persecuted for it. It's not a blessing to be hindered from doing right.
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
(1Pe 2:18-19)
Seems we skipped the verse above. What Jesus say?
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
(Luk 6:29)
Yes, we don't return evil for evil, and we subject ourselves to authority, even if they mistreat us with a good conscience toward God. Not a thing in here about sickness. Of course we pray they be free, as it's not the will of God for servants to be mistreated, I should not have to post all the scriptures on that, right?
So if someone is sick we don't pray for them because we might remove a blessing????
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
(Jas 5:15)
Someone should have told James this as he sure got this one wrong. Jesus also, healing all that were sick and oppressed of the devil, all those blessings of sickness destroyed.
Sickness is not a blessing, in any way, shape or form. ZERO blessing from sickness.
In Fact, sickness came for disobedience to God. Out of the curse of the Law, Jesus redeemed us from.
But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
(Deu 28:15)
Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
(Deu 28:61)
Sickness came through the curse for disobedience. So if it's ever one time God's will that we be sick, then it must also be his will to sin and disobey him which is the cause of sickness.
Our Body!!!
we are fearfully and wonderfully made, our bodies have been made by God to self repair. We would all be dead right now if it was not the will of God we be healed because He would have made our bodies only heal on a case by case bases.
However, at times our bodies need the help of doctors and medicine to help it heal itself. No medicine heals the body, it only helps what the body is designed to do and that is the will of God, and heal itself.
Now this is where people get dumb. Their body does not self heal, and the doctors can't do anything. Now suddenly because man can't do anything and flesh can't do anything, it's not God's will to heal anymore. God must have changed his mind on healing since flesh and doctors can no longer help.
(I know someone that will, and can)
I attended a meeting where a Pastor preached on this suffering nonsense and how God removes dross from our life with sickness and suffering. I tolerated it the best i could and did not speak out.
His wife had a 10 year headache that the doctors could do nothing, so He said it was the will of God and that at times she felt burning in her brain, the fire of God to remove the dross.
(I guess his wife was dumb as rocks and just did not learn fast enough)
So this guy tells God's folks, that God might want you to suffer, and it's not the devil....................
Well, it was a couple months later that the they found a specialist in Champaign, IL that knew of this extremely rare condition and it was easy to fix. They jumped on the program to end the wife's suffering. Screw the will of God at this point, she was tired of hurting.
If its God's will we suffer sickness, then bless God we ought to be as sick as possible when we get sick.
Hypocrites!!!!
You don't lie on God, and expect things to go well with you, and things did not go well with him after.
Do you believe it is possible to lose salvation and it is more than faith alone in Christ alone?Your right, we need to "DISCERN" right bible doctrine, whatever that is by the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:14 (NASB95)
14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear theirintimidation, and do not be troubled,
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(Heb 10:36)
This is not saying it's God's will they suffer. It's saying those that are doing the will of God, if they suffer, let them keep doing well as God is faithful. IN other words, God will see to it you don't continue to suffer.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
(Gal 6:9)
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
(1Ti 6:12)
Doing the will of God is going to be a fight of faith, it can make you weary, it can get you frustrated if you allow it. There is a fight, and it will come.
Nothing in there about sickness or God wanting you sick.
The whole thing............. cough... cough..
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
(1Pe 4:14-16)
Paul said pray, that the Word have a free course, a person suffering for preaching the Word as doing Good, we pray for them. Once again, this is not some sickness, it's someone that is doing right and gets persecuted for it. It's not a blessing to be hindered from doing right.
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
(1Pe 2:18-19)
Seems we skipped the verse above. What Jesus say?
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
(Luk 6:29)
Yes, we don't return evil for evil, and we subject ourselves to authority, even if they mistreat us with a good conscience toward God. Not a thing in here about sickness. Of course we pray they be free, as it's not the will of God for servants to be mistreated, I should not have to post all the scriptures on that, right?
So if someone is sick we don't pray for them because we might remove a blessing????
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
(Jas 5:15)
Someone should have told James this as he sure got this one wrong. Jesus also, healing all that were sick and oppressed of the devil, all those blessings of sickness destroyed.
Sickness is not a blessing, in any way, shape or form. ZERO blessing from sickness.
In Fact, sickness came for disobedience to God. Out of the curse of the Law, Jesus redeemed us from.
But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
(Deu 28:15)
Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
(Deu 28:61)
Sickness came through the curse for disobedience. So if it's ever one time God's will that we be sick, then it must also be his will to sin and disobey him which is the cause of sickness.
Our Body!!!
we are fearfully and wonderfully made, our bodies have been made by God to self repair. We would all be dead right now if it was not the will of God we be healed because He would have made our bodies only heal on a case by case bases.
However, at times our bodies need the help of doctors and medicine to help it heal itself. No medicine heals the body, it only helps what the body is designed to do and that is the will of God, and heal itself.
Now this is where people get dumb. Their body does not self heal, and the doctors can't do anything. Now suddenly because man can't do anything and flesh can't do anything, it's not God's will to heal anymore. God must have changed his mind on healing since flesh and doctors can no longer help.
(I know someone that will, and can)
I attended a meeting where a Pastor preached on this suffering nonsense and how God removes dross from our life with sickness and suffering. I tolerated it the best i could and did not speak out.
His wife had a 10 year headache that the doctors could do nothing, so He said it was the will of God and that at times she felt burning in her brain, the fire of God to remove the dross.
(I guess his wife was dumb as rocks and just did not learn fast enough)
So this guy tells God's folks, that God might want you to suffer, and it's not the devil....................
Well, it was a couple months later that the they found a specialist in Champaign, IL that knew of this extremely rare condition and it was easy to fix. They jumped on the program to end the wife's suffering. Screw the will of God at this point, she was tired of hurting.
If its God's will we suffer sickness, then bless God we ought to be as sick as possible when we get sick.
Hypocrites!!!!
You don't lie on God, and expect things to go well with you, and things did not go well with him after.
I cant go any farther than your first statement sir.
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
(1Pe 4:19)
Then you say it is not Gods will for them to suffer. I know it is not worth my time to read the rest. The message is going to be false.
Blake
Member
I was church of Christ and preterist as well! Until I went to a spirit-filled church and prayed to God to show me tongues that evening with an interpretation, if it comes from Him. And it did. I was trying to be silent, but I'm sure the church understood my sobbing as I sat there with holy hands in the air, shaking under the Power.
What was the message? And what KNOWN language was it in?
KevinK
Member
I'm all ears. But just to warn you, I've pretty much heard it all at this point.