Alcohol in Heaven

[ChevyRodeo]

Matthew 26:24

I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you cin my Father’s kingdom.â€




I find it odd that some Christan's are so against alcohol.


GOD made wine that maketh glad the heart of man". - Psalm 104

Proverbs 31:6&7 "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more"


Ecclesiastes 9:7 "Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do."

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Alcohol in Hevean

i love how you justified alcoholism

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Re: Alcohol in Hevean

i love how you justified alcoholism

the word "alcoholism" is not mentioned in my post.


Eating food is not gluttony . Driving a car is not speeding. Owning a gun is not killing.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Alcohol in Hevean

yes, i know that word isnt but i have seen this argument by many people love to drink heavily and hard.
the famous line" jesus used wine for the first easter, at the Lord's supper, and the bible says one can drink and not get drunk" that usually comes from the person who will never go to church has case in hand,or is in the state of druken stupor.

are there some who can drink in moderation, yes, but most chruches play on the safe side and preach against alcholol.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Re: Alcohol in Hevean

yes, i know that word isnt but i have seen this argument by many people love to drink heavily and hard.
the famous line" jesus used wine for the first easter, at the Lord's supper, and the bible says one can drink and not get drunk" that usually comes from the person who will never go to church has case in hand,or is in the state of druken stupor.

are there some who can drink in moderation, yes, but most chruches play on the safe side and preach against alcholol.

So they then preach a doctrine not from scripture. This "no alcohol doctrine" huh. I can have a drink at dinner and be fine. I can go months and not have drop, never thinking twice about it. It's a shame that I would get dirty looks from people at church if they knew I consumed light beer at Ruby Tuesdays. Would they then give Jesus the same dirty look for wine at Olive Garden?

 

[jasoncran]

i dont have any problems with those who do, but what if said christian convert and is in aa and see YOU drinkin that mighty fine beer and is offended and stumlbes and returns to alcoholism, we are our brothers keeper.

see romans14.

i dont drink and never will. for me that type of temptation would be porn or the psychic crap.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

i don't have any problems with those who do, but what if said christian convert and is in aa and see YOU drinkin that mighty fine beer and is offended and stumlbes and returns to alcoholism, we are our brothers keeper.

see romans14.

i don't drink and never will. for me that type of temptation would be porn or the psychic crap.

Then I would simply not drink infront of a brother in need. It's the same courtesy a smoker has for an ex smoker. You don't smoke infront of them.

So then what about drinking at home in privacy?

 

[jasoncran]

is there a mail order beer or wine. the latter yes. the point to why most chruches are agianst alcohol is because the teens and those cant handle it, they start on one drink and move to far more than one a day . our culture glorifies alcohol, watch and tv and look for any dramatic event and how its is dealt with most of time a drink in the bar or a toast.

aa members and others have told me that one.

 

[Free]

I have to agree with Jason on this. Obviously the Bible isn't against drinking, just getting drunk. However, there really is no point to drinking alcohol. Why do something that has the potential to lead one to sin? It's like tempting oneself every time alcohol is consumed.

Proverbs 31:6&7 "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more"

The above verse actually makes a case for not drinking alcohol as Christians.

 

[epistemaniac]

anything can lead one to sin... even prohibiting and going beyond what is written in the scriptures for example ;) ... if the bible does not forbid having a drink, then who is anyone to add to what is written? If we should not have a drink because it can lead to sin, then by the same reasoning we ought not eat because it can lead to gluttony, or we ought not use our eyes because they can lead us to lust, or we ought not use our minds because that could lead us to doubt etc etc Of course we should never use our freedom to cause others to stumble. But then again 1Co 10:29-31 ESV I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? (30) If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? (31) So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." If a person can have a glass of wine to the glory of the Lord then who is his master to prevent him? Again, we must not go beyond what is written, this elevates man made traditions (like no dancing, or no playing cards etc) and dishonors the very Scriptures we are seeking to live by. it would be different if the Scriptures or a principle directly inferred from the Scripture said "thou shalt not drink alcohol of any kind", but since the Scriptures does not say this, nor can it be inferred from any passage, then we have liberty and freedom to drink alcohol in so far as we do so in a way that does not violate the scriptural principle to not be drunk. This will be different for everyone, and perhaps not everyone can drink alcohol, but obviously some can without abusing it. I realize it is easier to just say that "no one should drink alcohol ever" in order to guard against the abuse of alcohol, but this is exactly the sort of thing the Pharisees did as they erected their traditions around the laws of guard in order to try and make sure that there was no possibility of violating God's law. Unfortunately these traditions quickly get elevated to the status of God's law itself, and we are not to follow after man's traditions as if they are the very word of God, but rather we are to obey God's law and not add to it or subtract from it.

blessings,
ken

 

[Free]

anything can lead one to sin... even prohibiting and going beyond what is written in the scriptures for example ;) ... if the bible does not forbid having a drink, then who is anyone to add to what is written? If we should not have a drink because it can lead to sin, then by the same reasoning we ought not eat because it can lead to gluttony, or we ought not use our eyes because they can lead us to lust, or we ought not use our minds because that could lead us to doubt etc etc

Alcohol has no purpose for a Christian. There is no reason to drink it. So, no, it is not the same reasoning.

If a person can have a glass of wine to the glory of the Lord then who is his master to prevent him?

I'm curious, how can one "have a glass of wine to the glory of the Lord?" What does that even mean and what good would come of it or what purpose would it serve?

Again, we must not go beyond what is written, this elevates man made traditions (like no dancing, or no playing cards etc) and dishonors the very Scriptures we are seeking to live by.

Be careful with statements like this. There is much Scripture doesn't mention. To say that we should not go beyond what is written can be taken to mean that anything not mentioned is okay, which is false.

but since the Scriptures does not say this, nor can it be inferred from any passage, then we have liberty and freedom to drink alcohol in so far as we do so in a way that does not violate the scriptural principle to not be drunk.

People are free to drink, that is clear, but what is the point? Honestly, there is only one reason I can think of as to why a Christian would want to drink, and that is to fit in, to not look like they're so different from the world.

 

[mondar]

People are free to drink, that is clear, but what is the point? Honestly, there is only one reason I can think of as to why a Christian would want to drink, and that is to fit in, to not look like they're so different from the world.

Free, you have stated very well where I am. I agree that the scriptures lets some latitude on drinking. Yet when I look at drinking culture it comes with a lot of pretty rotten baggage. Its the excess, its the rotten baggage that sticks in my mind. I might have a slightly negative view since I have been exposed to too many sick and intoxicated people.

People of different Church traditions often have very different views on their right to drink. Did you ever hear the saying that wherever there are 4 Episcopalians you will find a 5th? The term teetotaler is nearly synonymous with the Baptist tradition. I chose to lead my family away from the drinking subculture into total sobriety. Taking a drink might not be a sin, but if you make it an issue in the Church I attend, or force the issue with me personally, well then I will be happy to dig my heals in.

Some might object to my church demanding abstinence in all leaders. But if you dont like it, go to the Episcopal Church.

 

[Pogo]

Ah...this is an excellent topic!

The scriptures teach me that it is only intoxicated Christians that can be seen as stumbling blocks to others.

If not, then you are saying that Jesus, Himself (Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34) was a stumbling block! And, divinely inspired Paul to teach Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23) to be a stumbling block as well!
Not to mention the wedding party at Cana (John 2:1-10)!

Moreover, since the wine Jesus used at His "Last Supper", when He commanded us to "...this do...", was fermented, alcoholic, WINE, then I can't help but see that my Bible is commanding me to take a drink of wine each time the communion rite is observed.

Does symbolism have no place in our worship services any more?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Free]

Moreover, since the wine Jesus used at His "Last Supper", when He commanded us to "...this do...", was fermented, alcoholic, WINE, then I can't help but see that my Bible is commanding me to take a drink of wine each time the communion rite is observed.

Does symbolism have no place in our worship services any more?

So it is the alcohol then that makes all the difference for communion? If the wine is symbolic, why can't something instead of wine be used?

This would also mean that legally, minors cannot have real communion.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

you are ignoring the medical benefits of alcohol. You are also ignoring what other countries are like that have a low drinking age.

"There is no purpose for alcohol", then there is no purpose for Soda, peanut butter, etc etc etc or anything you like simply because you like it. THERE IS NO PURPOSE TO ICE CREME but you still consume it because you like it! I think beer is deliciously refreshing, so I drink it. I don't enjoy being drunk, Its something I avoid like the flu but I can have 2 or 3 good full beers and have no effects of being drunk or sick or any of that mess.


"In my Father's house there are many resting-places. Were it otherwise, I would have told you;"

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you;"


If it were so, Jesus tells you so. Jesus likes to make note of things worth mentioning, So I lead to belive by John ch. 4

 

[(THE)]

Re: Alcohol in Hevean

yes, i know that word isnt but i have seen this argument by many people love to drink heavily and hard.
the famous line" jesus used wine for the first easter, at the Lord's supper, and the bible says one can drink and not get drunk" that usually comes from the person who will never go to church has case in hand,or is in the state of druken stupor.

are there some who can drink in moderation, yes, but most chruches play on the safe side and preach against alcholol.

So they then preach a doctrine not from scripture. This "no alcohol doctrine" huh. I can have a drink at dinner and be fine. I can go months and not have drop, never thinking twice about it. It's a shame that I would get dirty looks from people at church if they knew I consumed light beer at Ruby Tuesdays. Would they then give Jesus the same dirty look for wine at Olive Garden?

I agree its not like your stubling down aisles reaking of vodka while holding up your jeans....Besides we are to consume some alchol anyway and yes its written...

 

[Free]

you are ignoring the medical benefits of alcohol.

Thought this would eventually come out. Perhaps I should argue for marijuana; it has medical benefits as well. There are no benefits of alcohol that can't be found somewhere else.

You are also ignoring what other countries are like that have a low drinking age.

And how is this an argument?

"There is no purpose for alcohol", then there is no purpose for Soda, peanut butter, etc etc etc or anything you like simply because you like it. THERE IS NO PURPOSE TO ICE CREME but you still consume it because you like it! I think beer is deliciously refreshing, so I drink it. I don't enjoy being drunk, Its something I avoid like the flu but I can have 2 or 3 good full beers and have no effects of being drunk or sick or any of that mess.

The difference being, you can't get drunk off soda, peanut butter or ice cream. Apples and oranges.

In my Father's house there are many resting-places. Were it otherwise, I would have told you;"

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you;"


If it were so, Jesus tells you so. Jesus likes to make note of things worth mentioning, So I lead to belive by John ch. 4

I have no idea how this supports your position.

 

[jasoncran]

free, he probably likes to drink more than a few, as i said earlier most people who like to drink use that verse(s). note i said probably. in any event you need prayer. our flesh will justify any sin if we let it.

 

[handy]

If not, then you are saying that Jesus, Himself (Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34) was a stumbling block!

This is the clincher folks. This is absolutely correct. Jesus said Himself that He drank wine:

Matt 11:18-19 (Jesus Himself speaking) For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon'; the Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'.

To equate any drinking of any wine as being sinful or being a stumbling block is to say that our Lord was Himself a sinner and a stumbling block.

This pretty well closes the case if one is more interested in Biblical truth rather than trying to push a certain belief.

If one sees a benefit in being a teetotaler, then one has total freedom to never drink. If one has freedom and can indeed drink a glass to the glory of God, then one has total freedom to do so. Let's not put burdens on others that our Lord hasn't and preach what is clearly a doctrine of man's as truth.

 

[(THE)]

free, he probably likes to drink more than a few, as i said earlier most people who like to drink use that verse(s). note i said probably. in any event you need prayer. our flesh will justify any sin if we let it.

23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

maybe he knows about amino acids..........