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Bible Study Am I Really Saved?: The Witness of the Holy Spirit.

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Consider my personal testimony and reflect on your words.
I was 16 years old in a parking lot with no one witnessing to me and The Lord spoke and revealed who He was, in a split second I understood my sins and my need for Him as Savior, He said He would forgive me and wash me clean! This was not an audible voice, but one spoken to my mind...God as my witness.
There was No apostle near but The spirit alone!
The Lord Is the head of the church, He is the word And will do as He pleases, at His discretion.
Am I an apostle because of this? No, I'm a follower of His...This is the work of The Holy Spirit and no man will get the glory for it.
Food for thought.
 
Consider my personal testimony and reflect on your words.
I was 16 years old in a parking lot with no one witnessing to me and The Lord spoke and revealed who He was, in a split second I understood my sins and my need for Him as Savior, He said He would forgive me and wash me clean! This was not an audible voice, but one spoken to my mind...God as my witness.
There was No apostle near but The spirit alone!
The Lord Is the head of the church, He is the word And will do as He pleases, at His discretion.
Am I an apostle because of this? No, I'm a follower of His...This is the work of The Holy Spirit and no man will get the glory for it.
Food for thought.
God gives light and draws men yes but always to His church the only infallible teacher and source of grace!

The new covenant church is established by Christ for the salvation of all mankind


Thanks
 
God gives light and draws men yes but always to His church the only infallible teacher and source of grace!

This role is reserved, first and foremost, for the Holy Spirit, not the Church alone. (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16)
 
This role is reserved, first and foremost, for the Holy Spirit, not the Church alone. (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16)
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22
 
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

You have not dealt with the verses I cited concerning the teaching role of the Holy Spirit in the life of every believer. Why is that?

No one who is not God can possess the same power and authority as Christ. The apostles established the Early Church, they went out into all the world and preached the Gospel, making disciples of those God used them to convert. But none of the apostles created a universe and sustain it moment-by-moment, as Christ did, and does; none of the apostles were "a se" - "from self" - existing as a necessity of their own being as Christ, the God-Man, has always existed; none of the apostles were able to atone for the sin of all mankind (let alone their own sin) as Jesus did; none of the apostles rose from the dead and ascended into heaven on a cloud. So, no, the apostles did not have the same power and authority as Christ. Not even close. (John 1:1-4; Colossians 1:16-17; John 1:29; Acts 1:9)

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2

Matthew 19:27-28
27 Then Peter said in reply, “See, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?”
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


I don't see anything in this passage speaking of the Church as an institution sitting in judgment with Christ, only the Twelve.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!


Does Paul say here in what manner the "saints will judge the world"? No. He certainly doesn't say they will do so on par with Christ.

His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”


Where does this passage indicate Jesus conferred his divine, teaching authority upon his disciples? Jesus directed his disciples to preach the Gospel and make disciples, but they were to teach what he had taught them, not stand as his equal, teaching their own doctrine. What authority they had in teaching was derived from the fact that they taught Christ's divine, and thus authoritative, truth.

John 20:21-23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.”
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”


Where does this passage assert that the disciples held the same authority as Christ in what they taught? All it indicates is that Jesus sent his disciples into the world to preach the Gospel, equipping them with the Holy Spirit, in whom the disciples would possess the power to do God's will. They had no message or power of their own, being nowhere close to standing on par with Christ in his teaching authority.

As representatives of Christ, the apostles had power to forgive sins, but this power was conferred upon them, and would depart the instant they ceased to serve Christ in truth and humility. The disciples were constrained by the Holy Spirit and the truth of Christ in what they would and would not forgive. Unlike Christ, the Twelve had no independent, self-derived power to forgive and in this respect were completely unlike Christ in their forgiveness.

I could go through all of your proof-texts, showing how you're misrepresenting what they indicate, but I haven't the time nor interest. I think what I've offered above is sufficient to counter your perspective.
 
Slow down one thing at time and we will get to all your objections

Jn 20:21
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Same mission power and authority

No they are not redeemers or saviors or lambs of God but have the triple office to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation Matt 28:19 and to govern the church until Christ returns Lk 22:29

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Understand?
 
Slow down one thing at time and we will get to all your objections

??? Take a look at your last post. You presented a wall-o'-text (prooftexts, actually), which hardly seems like the act of someone who wants to "slow down." If you want a slower pace to discussion, don't gush out eighteen Scripture references at once in assertion of your view.

Same mission power and authority

No they are not redeemers or saviors or lambs of God but have the triple office to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation Matt 28:19 and to govern the church until Christ returns Lk 22:29

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Understand?

It seems you've ignored all that I wrote.

I understand very well what you think, which is why I responded to your prooftexts as I did. Do you understand, though? Have you comprehended what I pointed out from your own prooftexts? It doesn't look like it. Your response above indicates that you don't really want a discussion of Scripture, but merely to assert your Roman Catholic doctrine no matter what objections to it might be raised.

You seem oblivious to the glaring contradiction in your response above. You cannot legitimately claim that the apostles had the SAME power and authority as Christ while acknowledging the profound DIFFERENCES in these areas between Christ and the apostles.

Oh, and one other thing: The apostles had no power to sanctify anyone. God the Holy Spirit alone has the power to sanctify (Titus 3:5; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 30) a lost sinner. And a believer's practical sanctification is merely the outworking of the life of the Spirit in daily living. The Holy Spirit sanctifies every believer positionally and in their daily condition (Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9), not any other human person.
 
God gives light and draws men yes but always to His church the only infallible teacher and source of grace!

The new covenant church is established by Christ for the salvation of all mankind


Thanks
It is the Lord that adds to His church.
God gives light and draws men yes but always to His church the only infallible teacher and source of grace!

The new covenant church is established by Christ for the salvation of all mankind


Thanks
I've said all I need to. I gave proof That God uses His Spirit, yes even to a 16 year old, WithOut anyone else, to save a sinner like me!
Praise be to HIS Holy Name Alone, Forever!
 
??? Take a look at your last post. You presented a wall-o'-text (prooftexts, actually), which hardly seems like the act of someone who wants to "slow down." If you want a slower pace to discussion, don't gush out eighteen Scripture references at once in assertion of your view.



It seems you've ignored all that I wrote.

I understand very well what you think, which is why I responded to your prooftexts as I did. Do you understand, though? Have you comprehended what I pointed out from your own prooftexts? It doesn't look like it. Your response above indicates that you don't really want a discussion of Scripture, but merely to assert your Roman Catholic doctrine no matter what objections to it might be raised.

You seem oblivious to the glaring contradiction in your response above. You cannot legitimately claim that the apostles had the SAME power and authority as Christ while acknowledging the profound DIFFERENCES in these areas between Christ and the apostles.

Oh, and one other thing: The apostles had no power to sanctify anyone. God the Holy Spirit alone has the power to sanctify (Titus 3:5; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 30) a lost sinner. And a believer's practical sanctification is merely the outworking of the life of the Spirit in daily living. The Holy Spirit sanctifies every believer positionally and in their daily condition (Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9), not any other human person.
You can’t baptize yourself!
2 pet 1:11
Jn 3:22 the church must baptize sanctify all men

A believer is not a Christian but only a catechumen

Faith and baptism makes a Christian

Thanks
 
It is the Lord that adds to His church.

I've said all I need to. I gave proof That God uses His Spirit, yes even to a 16 year old, WithOut anyone else, to save a sinner like me!
Praise be to HIS Holy Name Alone, Forever!
Saved? Mk 13:13 Mk 16:16 Matt 24:13 no one is saved in this life
All are redeemed by Christ
Some are justified and being sanctified unto the completion of salvation at the hour of death

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
Thanks
 
You can’t baptize yourself!
2 pet 1:11
Jn 3:22 the church must baptize sanctify all men

A believer is not a Christian but only a catechumen

Faith and baptism makes a Christian

Thanks

See? This is exactly what I mean by you not wanting discussion but a soapbox in this thread. Merely asserting something is so and attaching a verse as though its obvious that it supports your assertion is to offer nothing, really, in justification of your assertion. As I've shown only a couple of posts ago, you cite Scripture that doesn't actually support your assertions.

As well, an assertion, by itself, is not an argument for itself. I could assert that the moon is made of green cheese but merely asserting this does nothing to establish that it is true. In other words saying, "The moon is made of green cheese!" does not prove that it is. So, too, with the assertions you make above. Simply making them does nothing to prove they are true. But you constantly throw out assertions without arguing properly for them, without showing that they are true. You just assert and seem to expect its obvious to everyone else that you're correct. Well, it's not. In fact, when I look at the Scripture you offer in support of your assertions, I find you've misused them pretty badly.

Since you consistently ignore what I write, responding to my posts by making more unfounded assertions, you've given me no incentive to continue to interact with you. Until you do, I shall no longer respond to your posts.
 
Saved? Mk 13:13 Mk 16:16 Matt 24:13 no one is saved in this life
All are redeemed by Christ
Some are justified and being sanctified unto the completion of salvation at the hour of death

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
Thanks
God made it very, very simple. One must be born again, by the spirit.
One cannot take the scriptures and make his own gospel.
The simplicity of the scriptures that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes would not perish but have everlasting life is a spiritual, life giving message-- foolishness to those who refuse it.
Life to those that embrace it.
 
See? This is exactly what I mean by you not wanting discussion but a soapbox in this thread. Merely asserting something is so and attaching a verse as though its obvious that it supports your assertion is to offer nothing, really, in justification of your assertion. As I've shown only a couple of posts ago, you cite Scripture that doesn't actually support your assertions.

As well, an assertion, by itself, is not an argument for itself. I could assert that the moon is made of green cheese but merely asserting this does nothing to establish that it is true. In other words saying, "The moon is made of green cheese!" does not prove that it is. So, too, with the assertions you make above. Simply making them does nothing to prove they are true. But you constantly throw out assertions without arguing properly for them, without showing that they are true. You just assert and seem to expect its obvious to everyone else that you're correct. Well, it's not. In fact, when I look at the Scripture you offer in support of your assertions, I find you've misused them pretty badly.

Since you consistently ignore what I write, responding to my posts by making more unfounded assertions, you've given me no incentive to continue to interact with you. Until you do, I shall no longer respond to your posts.
Ask a question then, it’s all good
 
God made it very, very simple. One must be born again, by the spirit.
One cannot take the scriptures and make his own gospel.
The simplicity of the scriptures that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes would not perish but have everlasting life is a spiritual, life giving message-- foolishness to those who refuse it.
Life to those that embrace it.
Believe exactly what?

Are we born again by the spirit alone?
Thanks
 
Are we born again by the spirit alone?
6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. John 3:6

The Spirit is the agent through which we are born again, not the flesh. The effort of the flesh gives birth to flesh, not the spirit (Galatians 4:23). All who rely on being the son born of the natural effort of the flesh are sons of Hagar and have no inheritance with the sons born by faith in the promise (Galatians 4:30).
 
Ask a question then
I will.

How is it that this verse says we are not saved now?

24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24
 
I will.

How is it that this verse says we are not saved now?

24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24
Refers to a soul in sanctifying Grace not salvation Mk 13:13 Mk 16:16 Matt 24:13 many more says salvation is at the end
Thanks
 
Refers to a soul in sanctifying Grace not salvation Mk 13:13 Mk 16:16 Matt 24:13 many more says salvation is at the end
Thanks
Becoming a saved person and remaining a saved person are two different things. You are not properly distinguishing between the two.

You don't become a person who will not come under judgement by continuing to believe to the very end. You remain a person who will not come under judgement by continuing to believe to the very end.
 

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