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An honest Calvinist view of Total Depravity.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Preaching and teaching are the same. Jesus describes who it is that hears the Gospel Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Man naturally because of our depravity are not able to come to Christ, believe in Him Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Drawing is the New Birth
Here are the questions that I have asked you for years here on this Forum, to which you or anyone else that is a Calvinist, has yet to answer:
- How does a person become saved without ever hearing of Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross?
- When does a person become saved who has never heard the Gospel:
- Before they were born?
- In their mothers womb?
- After they were born?
- Other?
Please clarify your belief for us by answering these question with scripture.
Yes, by regeneration. If you not saved through regeneration first, you cant spiritually hear and believe the Gospel. Except a man is Born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God Jn 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
This is the same as Jn 6:44
electedbyhim
Member
Only they can and will believe in Jesus
No, they elect before they are born. They are born sinners in Adam into the kingdom of darkness and at God's sovereign time, "He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son . . .
Col. 1:13
I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. From the same lump of fallen humanity, God chooses whosoever He desires for His purpose.
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
The word "power" there is exousia. Look it up.
Power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases; leave or permission
The power of authority (influence) and of right
The power of rule or government (the power of him whose will and commands must be submitted to by others and obeyed (generally translated authority.
To the question above, you would seem to answer "no He doesn't have that right."
You nor any other Calvinist has ever given a scripture that teaches us a person is born again, before they hear and believe the Gospel because it doesn't exist.
- How does a person become saved without ever hearing of Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross?
- When does a person become saved who has never heard the Gospel:
- Before they were born?
- In their mothers womb?
- After they were born?
- Other?
Please clarify your belief for us by answering these question with scripture.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
The word elect does not appear in the text.
You people have your own manmade theology because you just decide to add words to the scriptures.
That's what a man made doctrine is all about, making up your own words to replace the words of scripture.
JLB
Nope. That's completely false and is not in this passage.
God loves the world of lost people and desires for them to be saved.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
World = Lost people.
JLB
They way we are delivered from the domain of darkness is through the Gospel.
Hearing and believing the Gospel.
3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, 8 who also declared to us your love in the Spirit. 9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:3-14
electedbyhim
Member
Don't understand what?
I understand that Calvinist's readily change the words of scripture to fit their preconceived idea.
God loves the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Calvinist's change the world to "elect" to fit their own man made view.
Here is how Calvinist's perceive John 3:16
For God so loved the
I fully understand this is the view of a Calvinist.
JLB
Please show me where you have provided a scripture that says we are saved, born again, before we ever hear about Jesus Christ and the cross.
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? Romans 10:14
JLB