Bible Study Bible & homosexual marriage

[Christ_empowered]

I agree w/ Kidron on the whole "desensitization" thing. I think its also been referred to as "culture jamming" or something...changing the rules of entire culture through the media. Gay marriage was unthinkable until serious changes in the way we view and handle sexuality occurred in the culture. Not surprisingly, at the same time that gay marriage has become the law of the land, relationships have given way to "hook ups," not only for college students and homosexuals, but for many perfectly conventional adults.

When I was actively homogay 10ish years ago, there was still something of a stigma (of course, I'm in The South). Now...its cool to be gay-affirming, and gay friends are sort of the new token minority friends for some people.

To me, sodomy is an adolescent form of sexuality. I don't think you can sustain a lifelong relationship in a sodomite union. The whole thing is based on lust, whereas even the worst heterosexual relationship has a degree of complementarity. Sodomy is about Self.

 

[OzSpen]

I agree w/ Kidron on the whole "desensitization" thing. I think its also been referred to as "culture jamming" or something...changing the rules of entire culture through the media. Gay marriage was unthinkable until serious changes in the way we view and handle sexuality occurred in the culture. Not surprisingly, at the same time that gay marriage has become the law of the land, relationships have given way to "hook ups," not only for college students and homosexuals, but for many perfectly conventional adults.

When I was actively homogay 10ish years ago, there was still something of a stigma (of course, I'm in The South). Now...its cool to be gay-affirming, and gay friends are sort of the new token minority friends for some people.

To me, sodomy is an adolescent form of sexuality. I don't think you can sustain a lifelong relationship in a sodomite union. The whole thing is based on lust, whereas even the worst heterosexual relationship has a degree of complementarity. Sodomy is about Self.

Ce,

Excellent insight and you have a personal perspective to share. Thank you for being so transparent.

I think there is the added factor that seeker-sensitive Christianity has meant a dumbing down of theology being taught from the pulpit. I'm fortunate to be attending a church where there is a solid exposition of Scripture from the pulpit and biblical theology is regularly taught from the pulpit. This is an exception Down Under.

Popular evangelical Christianity has replaced thoughtful Christianity in my neck of the woods.

Oz

 

[Edward]

Ive been there., been to that area.
And the reason that the homosexuals were burned within that city, is very simple.....its the same reason you cut out a cancer before it spreads to your liver.
Its the same reason you dont take a classroom full of 1st graders or 12 year old Boy scouts and show them homosexual PORN everyday for a week.

Its the "rule of association"... its the fact a human will accept what they become familiar enough with to accept.

This is why so many who were sickened by the very idea of gay sex 2o years ago, have now watched so many cable TV shows that promote the " gay lifestyle" as acceptable, that they now "feel" differently about gay marriage or "gays" in the pulpit.
They have not evolved in their thinking, but rather they have been "associated" and "desensitized" and have become increasingly "diseased" within their own morality.

Amen brother, that's exactly right. I've always said that. I don't believe that any gays are born that way, its a learned behavior/activity.

You mention the rule of association...(never heard of it!) But my dad was big on that word. He always said that; dont associate with bums, thieves, and lowlifes becàuse you'll become just like them...!
I guess that rings true for our topic too then, lol.

Desensitizing people to it will cost a lot of souls I bet. I've made self proclaimed. Christian brother s mad at me for not being PC enough about it for them. I wasn't being mean, just not too sympathetic. About something that in the OT that was a capital offense!

Something wroñg with that picture.

 

[ezra]

reminds me of the story about gourmet brownies
Special Brownies
===========

A father of some teenage children had the family rule that they
could not attend PG-13 or R rated movies. His three teens
wanted to see a particular popular movie that was playing at
local theaters. It was rated PG-13.

The teens interviewed friends and even some members of their
family's church to find out what was offensive in the movie. The
teens made a list of pros and cons about the movie to use to
convince their dad that they should be allowed to see it.

The cons were that it contained ONLY 3 swear words, the ONLY
violence was a building exploding (and you see that on TV all
the time they said), and you actually did not "see" the couple
in the movie having sex - it was just implied sex, off camera.

The pros were that it was a popular movie - a block buster.

Everyone was seeing it. If the teens saw the movie then they
would not feel left out when their friends discussed it. The
movie contained a good story and plot. It had some great
adventure and suspense in it. There were some fantastic special
effects in this movie. The movie's stars were some of the most
talented actors in Hollywood. It probably would be nominated
for several awards. Many of the members of their Christian
church had even seen the movie and said it wasn't "very bad."

Therefore, since there were more pros than cons, the teens said
they were asking their father to reconsider his position on just
this ONE movie and let them have permission to go see it.

The father looked at the list and thought for a few minutes. He
said he could tell his children had spent some time and thought
on this request. He asked if he could have a day to think about
it before making his decision.

The teens were thrilled, thinking: "Now we've got him! Our
argument is too good! Dad can't turn us down!" So, they
happily agreed to let him have a day to think about their
request.

The next evening the father called in his three teenagers, who
were smiling smugly, into the living room. There on the coffee
table he had a plate of brownies. The teens were puzzled. The
father told his children he had thought about their request and
had decided that if they would eat a brownie then he would let
them go to the movie. But just like the movie, the brownies had
pros and cons.

The pros were that they were made with the finest chocolate and
other good ingredients. They had the added special effect of
yummy walnuts in them. The brownies were moist and fresh with
wonderful chocolate frosting on top. He had made these
fantastic brownies using an award-winning recipe. And best of
all, the brownies had been made lovingly by the hand of their
own father.

The brownies only had one con. He had included a little bit of a
special ingredient. The brownies also contained just a little
bit of dog poop. But he had mixed the dough well - they
probably would not even be able to taste the dog poop and he had
baked it at 350 degrees so any bacteria or germs from the dog
poop had probably been destroyed.

Therefore, if any of his children could stand to eat the
brownies which included just a "little bit of crap" and not be
affected by it, then he knew they would also be able to see the
movie with "just a little bit of smut" and not be affected.

Of course, none of the teens would eat the brownies and the smug
smiles had left their faces. Only Dad was smiling smugly as they
left the room. Now when his teenagers ask permission to do
something he is opposed to, the father just asks, "Would you
like me to whip up a batch of my special brownies?"
. that's how the world sees all this. it does no harm after all it just affects them. the Bible says a little leaven leavens the whole loaf . so does a little sin hurt us ?

 

[Jim Parker]

Claim 1: Jesus didn’t speak about same-sex marriage, so he’s at least neutral if not open to it. What Jesus doesn’t condemn, we shouldn’t condemn.

This is an argument from silence, but the silence doesn’t take place in a vacuum. Jesus addresses and defines marriage in Matthew 19:4–6and Mark 10:6–9 using both Genesis 1:26–27 and Genesis 2:24 to parse it out. Here Jesus defines and affirms marriage as between a man and a woman, a reflection of the fact that God made us male and female to care for creation together. With this definition, same-sex marriage is excluded. Had Jesus wished to extend the right of marriage beyond this definition, here was his opportunity. But he didn’t take it.

Absolutely! Jesus didn't say anything about cannibalism either but that "silence" cannot be reasonably be construed to mean He was neutral toward or approving of the act.

jim

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ce,

Excellent insight and you have a personal perspective to share. Thank you for being so transparent.

I think there is the added factor that seeker-sensitive Christianity has meant a dumbing down of theology being taught from the pulpit. I'm fortunate to be attending a church where there is a solid exposition of Scripture from the pulpit and biblical theology is regularly taught from the pulpit. This is an exception Down Under.

Popular evangelical Christianity has replaced thoughtful Christianity in my neck of the woods.

Oz

Oz,
It is the exception today, even in the Bible Belt of the Southern US.

 

[OzSpen]

Absolutely! Jesus didn't say anything about cannibalism either but that "silence" cannot be reasonably be construed to mean He was neutral toward or approving of the act.

jim

Well said, Jim.

But Jesus was affirming of heterosexuality in Matt 19:5 (NIV) where he quoted from Gen 2:24 (NIV), and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'. It's staggering the number of blind spots there are among those who'. To be united to his wife does not mean to be united with his male partner.

Oz

 

[Kidron]

Amen brother, that's exactly right. I've always said that. I don't believe that any gays are born that way, its a learned behavior/activity.

You mention the rule of association.. = Desensitizing .

Exactly.
Essentially, the idea is... when we rub against something, the something gets on us.
So, the cultural change agents who programs TV cable, who own the networks which are trying to "globalize" all Americans and associate us with Transgender theology and Gay rights, understand that all walls of moral resistance are gradually removed once you are associated with something immoral many many times.
Lie become truth this way.
Gay becomes "normal for them", after you hear it enough.
Transgender becomes "born in the wrong body", instead of unresolved "mental health issue".

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don't think its helpful to call transgender ppl "immoral freaks."

 

[Kidron]

I don't think its helpful to call transgender ppl "immoral freaks."

But they are not "transgender" people.
There is no such reality, but there are just misled people who have had body parts chopped off and redesigned.
So, what you are doing here, is based on the effect of being led to believe something, that i was just describing, which happens by association.
Where do you think you heard this term?....Do you think its a biblical term? Do you think its an Ethnic group?
No, its away to disguise a deep seated mental issue by disguising it as a sexual ID issue using an interesting term.
The reality is....there are people with a sexual morality issue who were mislead into horrible surgery by something that isn't even a true science.

Now, you would say....."well, whatever, but these people need to be led to Jesus with Love"....and i agree with you., and if i deal with one that is how i do it.
But on a Christian forum, there is no use playing the word game.
That would not be honest.

 

[Christ_empowered]

They're just ppl with gender issues, who knows why...family dynamics, community issues, trauma, a messed up society...the list goes on and on. I vaguely remember reading that gender issues of this sort can sometimes be related to Narcissism, which kinda makes sense.

I do wish Mental Health, Inc. and the medical establishment would stop treating these and other problems as "diseases," "disorders," etc. Its profitable, I'm sure, but it hurts people and I think hurts society as a whole, to a certain extent.

These people need Jesus. I needed Jesus when I was a flamboyantly gay, unrepentant wretch. All I got from most Christians in my area was condemnation. Of course, when being gender disordered is so deeply entrenched in one's identity, its probably harder to come to Jesus. Same with sodomites...its difficult to get them to see that their behavior offends a holy and just God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Exactly.
Essentially, the idea is... when we rub against something, the something gets on us.
So, the cultural change agents who programs TV cable, who own the networks which are trying to "globalize" all Americans and associate us with Transgender theology and Gay rights, understand that all walls of moral resistance are gradually removed once you are associated with something immoral many many times.
Lie become truth this way.
Gay becomes "normal for them", after you hear it enough.
Transgender becomes "born in the wrong body", instead of unresolved "mental health issue".

The sad thing is, when I grew up Gay was happy anjd in fact still is happy, not homosexual, queer nor anything else they are choosing to call themselves today.

What you say here is correct. Had I not been, repeatedly, raped as a child, I would never have had the first thing to do with homosexual activities, stone cold fact.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I don't think its helpful to call transgender ppl "immoral freaks."

Truth is never polite in today's world but it remains truth.

 

[Kidron]

They're just ppl with gender issues, who knows why...

Once again, you are giving PC speak, because you have been trained to think in terms that Behavioral Science uses to con the hurting.
If anything, these people have dysphoria issues that are playing out within their sexual ID.
They are looking for a reason why they are so upset, so unsettled inside, so, a Shrink leads them to this idea of "trans" and they bite, they take the bait because they want help.
But its not the truth they are getting as "help", and these people are being recruited and recreated according to the gospel of crazy "science".

 

[th1b.taylor]

Once again, you are giving PC speak, because you have been trained to think in terms that Behavioral Science uses to con the hurting.
If anything, these people have dysphoria issues that are playing out within their sexual ID.
They are looking for a reason why they are so upset, so unsettled inside, so, a Shrink leads them to this idea of "trans" and they bite, they take the bait because they want help.
But its not the truth, and these people are being recruited and recreated according to the gospel of crazy "science".

Amen and I will scream it, AMEN! Look at the results. After the men have this butchery performed on them, in the long run they return to women... sick, period.

 

[ezra]

I don't think its helpful to call transgender ppl "immoral freaks."

what would you call them. a male who wants to act like a woman be allowed to use the same bathroom as a woman or child does?

 

[th1b.taylor]

what would you call them. a male who wants to act like a woman be allowed to use the same bathroom as a woman or child does?

Not in my house, they do not and when I was still in business somebody would have called the Police to save the idiots life.

 

[jocor]

Here's an interesting article by Darrel L Bock, The Bible and Same-Sex Marriage: 6 Common but Mistaken Claims.

How do you respond to these? Are they valid arguments?

Oz

Claim 4: We don’t follow all sorts of OT laws today (try laws on having sex while a woman is menstruating, or eating certain types of food), so why should we accept what the OT says about same-sex relationships?

This is a totally bogus argument from a Torah keepers perspective, but from the wishy-washy perspective on OT law put forth by many Christians, it is a valid argument. Any person who has sex with a menstruating woman is in violation of Yahweh's moral law. Yet, many Christians have no problem committing such a vile act because the NT does not specifically forbid it. That is equivalent to the cannibalism example Jim Parker pointed out. Cannibalism is not forbidden in the NT, but you don't find Christians saying it is now permissible.

 

[Christ_empowered]

wow...things are getting graphic, lol.

 

[Kidron]

And why cant a Christian ever agree with "gay marriage"?
Romans 1:21-28.
The issue is.....if you agree, if you condone, gay marriage..... then you are agreeing-condoning = gay sex is moral or natural.
And a Christian cant ever agree with this, and that is why a Christian should NEVER agree that Gay marriage is acceptable or normal or moral.