Body, Soul, and Spirit

[Butch5]

I'm not talking about a city in "space" either, that's a strawman. Obviously we don't hold that heaven exists in the same dimension as this. They use references to above though as referring to heaven.

The present Jerusalem and the Jerusalem above are contrasted in Galatians 4, and that we belong to the Jerusalem above, we are citizens of this heavenly city.

I wasn't presenting a straw man, I was just going by your agreement that the new Jerusalem descended to Earth.


Let's look at the whole text.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, Hebrews 12:22-28 (ESV)

Just prior, the author is making a distinction against the Old Covenant represented by Sinai. The New Covenant, here is represented by Mount Zion (instead of Mount Sinai) and the heavenly Jerusalem. If you look closely, everything described represents heaven, and the author then goes on to draw a contrast between heaven and earth. That if the people of Israel refused him who warned them on earth (Moses), how will we escape punishment should be refuse Jesus who warns from heaven.

Everything described in 22-24 is about heaven, or it makes no sense to the context.[/QUOTE]

I agree that it is all heavenly, the question is does it exist now or is it a description of the coming kingdom? I submit that it is a description of the coming kingdom. He said they had come to mount Zion (that's on earth) and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. He didn't say they came to the Jerusalem in Heaven. The kingdom is heavenly, it's from Heaven. Jesus told the apostles to pray, "thy kingdom come." Mathew calls it the kingdom of Heaven, that is the kingdom from Heaven. I would expect Paul to describe the kingdom as heavenly.

 

[DRS81]

Doulos Iesou & JLB Hey guys, if I was ever rude to you I apologize bro's. Peace my friends.

 

[digging]

Wow watching you fellows talk is very interesting! Lot's of wonderful details, I love it!

Hey I know this might be views as off topic....but I had a thought what the descending of New Jerusalem might be a symbol for.....What IF it is a symbol for the resurrection of the righteous back to life on earth? Since every righteous persons life is recorded with the Father in heaven in his book of life. Cities are made of two things buildings and PEOPLE.
I don't think buildings are going to come down.....
Digging

 

[DRS81]

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem

This is such a powerful verse. Even our inheritance is heavenly. The word heavenly describes our spiritual condition. Heaven is where we receive water..

John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."
1 Peter 1:4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you.
Dan 12:13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

Mount Zion (Hebrew: הַר צִיוֹן, Har Tsiyyon; Arabic: جبل صهيون‎, Jabel Sahyoun) is a hill in Jerusalem just outside the walls of the Old City. Mount Zion has been historically associated with the Temple Mount.[1] In the Bible, Mount Zion is synonymous with Mount Moriah, the site of the binding of Isaac and the Jewish Temple. The term is also used for the entire Land of Israel.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion

I agree that it is all heavenly, the question is does it exist now or is it a description of the coming kingdom? I submit that it is a description of the coming kingdom. He said they had come to mount Zion (that's on earth) and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. He didn't say they came to the Jerusalem in Heaven. The kingdom is heavenly, it's from Heaven. Jesus told the apostles to pray, "thy kingdom come." Mathew calls it the kingdom of Heaven, that is the kingdom from Heaven. I would expect Paul to describe the kingdom as heavenly.

Truth.