Do you believe in hell?

[Eugene]

the idea of the lake of fire from some rabbis is the nearly the same. a fiery place of torment for those that aren't good.i read up on that to see what they say.most of them are uu with that. in the Hebrew doesn't stay in either. I didn't expect them to see it our way. just to see that they never saw either as a grave.

Brother, the problem with the doctrines of man is that they seem to want put an end to the consciousnesses with death. The grave is nothing but the place the bodies of the righteous and the unbelieving reside asleep until called; go dig any of them up and there they are even as dust, but just attempt to locate their spirit.

 

[chessman]

The Bible does say that hades and hell are very,very bad..

Yes. Very bad for both the body and the soul. Very fearful and destructive:

Matthew 10:28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ​

 

[Kathi]

A bad day:
View attachment 4808

A good day:

View attachment 4807

Is that Lobster I see??? Yummy

 

[TimothyW]

Define a bad day of fishing.

A day fishing on the lake of fire?

 

[KevinK]

I think you know my answer.

 

[JLB]

Yes. Very bad for both the body and the soul. Very fearful and destructive:

Matthew 10:28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ​

Yes and don't forget the torment day and night forever and ever!


JLB

 

[Kathi]

Yes and don't forget the torment day and night forever and ever!


JLB

 

[chessman]

Yes and don't forget the torment day and night forever and ever!

JLB

Yes. Remember it (torment) as long as there's day and night and Earth and pain:

Genesis 8:22 As long as the earth endures, seed and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will not cease.
​

But we all know these things don't last forever:

2 Peter 3:11-15 Because all these things are being destroyed in this way, what sort of people must you be in holy behavior and godliness, while waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by being burned up and the celestial bodies will melt as they are consumed by heat! But according to his promise, we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness resides. Therefore, dear friends, because you are waiting for these things, make every effort to be found at peace, spotless and unblemished in him. And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom that was given to him,

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea did not exist any longer.

Revelation 21:4 And he will wipe away every tear from their eyes,and death will not exist any longer,and mourning or wailing or pain will not exist any longer.The former things have passed away.”
​

 

[Kathi]

Why would i go and pay $30 a kg for fish like they expect me too. Times are tough and its about survival. The more free food i get the better, and its my God given right, and a right i have as a recreational fisherman to collect seafood. But business will always be business. The gov sectors never want anyone to have a free ride.

That is why i had a bad day fishing yesterday. I got one fish that was 29.5cm. A couple of months ago that would have been legal and i would have had a feed for dinner last night. But they just increased not only our catch limit as you can see on the graph i posted above, but also our size limit hen commercial fisherman are allowed even smaller. They can take 25cm. We have gone from 27cm to 30cm.

So i go hungry once again from this greed.

So you fish for a living?Do they do better in Alaska?

 

[Kathi]

No, i do not fish for a living. I fish recreational for fun. I fish because i enjoy it and it also saves cost and is free and healthy. I also fish because i am poor so put food on my table because food is expensive.

Do you have a favorite fish to catch and eat?

 

[OzSpen]

In your opinion, is the Jew's thinking of gehenna the equivalent to the lake of fire, or perdition? Do they even realize those not in Christ will stand before Jesus at the great White Throne Judgment? If they don't, all their learning is of no profit.

And to justify their unbelief, they haven’t even faced judgment in their thinking without Christ, so we can understand their ignorance of the matter.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

WHAT? There is more?

Eugene,

Here is a brief and helpful overview, IMO: Question: "What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?"

Oz

 

[Eugene]

Eugene,

Here is a brief and helpful overview, IMO: Question: "What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?"

Oz

Hi Brother Oz, I’ll just give my opinion of the choices you present. The grave is referred to as a sepulcher at times such as in John 12:17, and other times a place of everlasting torment such as that of Mat 5:30 when using the meanings of the word in Strong's Concordance. There are different levels of that prison such as that of 2 Pet 2:4. I believe we’re all familiar with Abraham’s boson as a place of comfort of the righteous dead such as Lazarus, whereas the rich man was in torment in Hades told us in Luke 16:23.

It appears to me that the same word hell can be translated or used from different Greek or Hebrew words depending upon the severity of the punishment. You ask the difference in Abraham’s bosom and Paradise, and my answer is nothing except its location being in heaven after Jesus made the way open by His sacrifice on the cross. Abraham’s bosom was in the lower parts of the earth and was taken to heaven. Even the thief on the cross was said to have been taken to Paradise that day which was Abraham’s bosom.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The Lake of Fire seems to me to be the punitive result of the judgment pronounced upon all not found in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne judgment of Rev 20:13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Destruction - Hebrew 11 a perishing (hades)

Hades - Greek 86 Place of departed souls – Grave, hell.

Geenna - Greek 1067 State of everlasting punishment. (Hell) Mat 5:30

Death - Hebrew 4194 their place or state, ruin (hades) 2 Sam 2:26, Isa 28:15

Tartaroo - G5020 - The deepset abyss of Hades. 2 Pet 2:4

Lowest hell – Hebrew 7585 Shehole - Lower or nether parts Hades, or world of the dead - Grave, hell, pit,
2 Sam 2:26, Psa 9:17, Ps 16:10, Psa 55:15, Isa 28:15,

 

[OzSpen]

Eugene,

I would like to respond with only one of your examples, 'other times a place of everlasting torment such as that of Mat 5:30 when using the meanings of the word in Strong's Concordance'.

This verse is talking about what happens after the resurrection of the body at Christ's second coming and the joining of body and spirit. 'Hell' is not a good translation as there are too many times in the NT where the English translators have used 'hell' for various Greek words. Here in Mat 5:20 (ESV) , the Greek word is Gehenna, which is the final destiny of the wicked. The Valley of Gehenna was a decomposing, rotten, putrid dump outside of Jerusalem that burned continuously. That's the image being given.

Matt 5:29-20 (ESV) is a powerful argument for Gehenna (hell?) as a place of punishment for both angels and human beings. However, it is their final destiny and not what happens in the intermediate state after death and before the resurrection. For that situation, Hades is used for a place of intermediate torment, but it is not the final destiny of the wicked.

Gehenna is the final state of the lost, both angels and human beings.

Oz

Hi Brother Oz, I’ll just give my opinion of the choices you present. The grave is referred to as a sepulcher at times such as in John 12:17, and other times a place of everlasting torment such as that of Mat 5:30 when using the meanings of the word in Strong's Concordance. There are different levels of that prison such as that of 2 Pet 2:4. I believe we’re all familiar with Abraham’s boson as a place of comfort of the righteous dead such as Lazarus, whereas the rich man was in torment in Hades told us in Luke 16:23.

It appears to me that the same word hell can be translated or used from different Greek or Hebrew words depending upon the severity of the punishment. You ask the difference in Abraham’s bosom and Paradise, and my answer is nothing except its location being in heaven after Jesus made the way open by His sacrifice on the cross. Abraham’s bosom was in the lower parts of the earth and was taken to heaven. Even the thief on the cross was said to have been taken to Paradise that day which was Abraham’s bosom.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The Lake of Fire seems to me to be the punitive result of the judgment pronounced upon all not found in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne judgment of Rev 20:13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Destruction - Hebrew 11 a perishing (hades)

Hades - Greek 86 Place of departed souls – Grave, hell.

Geenna - Greek 1067 State of everlasting punishment. (Hell) Mat 5:30

Death - Hebrew 4194 their place or state, ruin (hades) 2 Sam 2:26, Isa 28:15

Tartaroo - G5020 - The deepset abyss of Hades. 2 Pet 2:4

Lowest hell – Hebrew 7585 Shehole - Lower or nether parts Hades, or world of the dead - Grave, hell, pit,
2 Sam 2:26, Psa 9:17, Ps 16:10, Psa 55:15, Isa 28:15,

 

[Eugene]

Eugene,

I would like to respond with only one of your examples, 'other times a place of everlasting torment such as that of Mat 5:30 when using the meanings of the word in Strong's Concordance'.

This verse is talking about what happens after the resurrection of the body at Christ's second coming and the joining of body and spirit. 'Hell' is not a good translation as there are too many times in the NT where the English translators have used 'hell' for various Greek words. Here in Mat 5:20 (ESV) , the Greek word is Gehenna, which is the final destiny of the wicked. The Valley of Gehenna was a decomposing, rotten, putrid dump outside of Jerusalem that burned continuously. That's the image being given.

Matt 5:29-20 (ESV) is a powerful argument for Gehenna (hell?) as a place of punishment for both angels and human beings. However, it is their final destiny and not what happens in the intermediate state after death and before the resurrection. For that situation, Hades is used for a place of intermediate torment, but it is not the final destiny of the wicked.

Gehenna is the final state of the lost, both angels and human beings.

Oz

I reckon we'll never as children of God experience the reality of the differences of hell with the exception of that used for the grave, that place our bodies will rest until the resurrection, and as to comfort of our spirits in Christ, they will be secure in Him.

 

[OzSpen]

I reckon we'll never as children of God experience the reality of the differences of hell with the exception of that used for the grave, that place our bodies will rest until the resurrection, and as to comfort of our spirits in Christ, they will be secure in Him.

However, that wasn't the point I was addressing in Matt 5:30 (ESV) .

As for the bodies in the grave, they disintegrate and become dust and the spirit/soul returns to God at death. It is simply stated in Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NIV) : 'and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it'

 

[Eugene]

However, that wasn't the point I was addressing in Matt 5:30 (ESV) .

As for the bodies in the grave, they disintegrate and become dust and the spirit/soul returns to God at death. It is simply stated in Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NIV) : 'and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it'

Are you saying I spent hours on my above replies uselessly attempting to answer your one thought here? I'm aging faster than I thought.

 

[OzSpen]

Are you saying I spent hours on my above replies uselessly attempting to answer your one thought here? I'm aging faster than I thought.

Not at all, Eugene. That was not my suggestion at all. I was dealing with one verse that you raised: 'The grave is referred to as a sepulcher at times such as in John 12:17, and other times a place of everlasting torment such as that of Mat 5:30 when using the meanings of the word in Strong's Concordance'. It was Matt 5:30 ESV where I showed that the word for the English 'hell' is the Greek Gehenna, which is the final destiny of the unregenerate (after the resurrection at Christ's second coming) of angels and human beings.

I sincerely apologise if I sent the wrong message to you. That was not my intent and desire.

Oz

 

[Eugene]

Not at all, Eugene. That was not my suggestion at all. I was dealing with one verse that you raised: 'The grave is referred to as a sepulcher at times such as in John 12:17, and other times a place of everlasting torment such as that of Mat 5:30 when using the meanings of the word in Strong's Concordance'. It was Matt 5:30 ESV where I showed that the word for the English 'hell' is the Greek Gehenna, which is the final destiny of the unregenerate (after the resurrection at Christ's second coming) of angels and human beings.

I sincerely apologise if I sent the wrong message to you. That was not my intent and desire.

I know, and I agree if I'm understanding correctly.

 

[OzSpen]

I know, and I agree if I'm understanding correctly.

My point has been that Matt 5:30 (ESV) does not deal with the grave but with the final destiny of the unregenerate, 'the whole body', in Gehenna of final torment.

 

[JLB]

Yes. Remember it (torment) as long as there's day and night and Earth and pain:

Genesis 8:22 As long as the earth endures, seed and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will not cease.
​

But we all know these things don't last forever:

2 Peter 3:11-15 Because all these things are being destroyed in this way, what sort of people must you be in holy behavior and godliness, while waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by being burned up and the celestial bodies will melt as they are consumed by heat! But according to his promise, we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness resides. Therefore, dear friends, because you are waiting for these things, make every effort to be found at peace, spotless and unblemished in him. And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom that was given to him,

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea did not exist any longer.

Revelation 21:4 And he will wipe away every tear from their eyes,and death will not exist any longer,and mourning or wailing or pain will not exist any longer.The former things have passed away.”
​

Physical pain, that comes from a physical body?

NOT!