Do you make ubelievers angry?

[Aardverk]

As a Christian, then as a semi-detached Christian, I have always loved discussing any religion. I find it endlessly fascinating from so many aspects. I welcome Jehovah's Witnesses and any other evangelists who knock on my door. Having no firm convictions myself I tend to take an opposite view to whatever they have to say, just to explore what these people know - which is often surprisingly little.

I have read the Bible many times over the last 70 years or so and can't imagine any intelligent person taking offense at what is written. HOWEVER, there are a few people, of any religion or none, who just do not understand the difference between fact and belief. Those poor souls have a tendency to try to dictate and dominate and call you things like 'evil sinner' or 'gullible'. They simply have no grasp of the subtleties of knowledge, especially science and history, and take a child-like, simplistic, one dimensional view of scripture.

If those people are Christians, I would suggest that they are the ones who anger unbelievers, certainly not the majority of well intentioned, intelligent Christians we meet every day in the real world and on this forum.

Unfortunately there a few of the 'poor soul' variety on this forum (most of us know who they are) so if you really do find that you anger unbelievers on a regular basis, maybe you should be talking less and listening more :ohmy

 

[Classik]

As a Christian, then as a semi-detached Christian, I have always loved discussing any religion. I find it endlessly fascinating from so many aspects. I welcome Jehovah's Witnesses and any other evangelists who knock on my door. Having no firm convictions myself I tend to take an opposite view to whatever they have to say, just to explore what these people know - which is often surprisingly little. I have read the Bible many times over the last 70 years or so and can't imagine any intelligent person taking offense at what is written. HOWEVER, there are a few people, of any religion or none, who just do not understand the difference between fact and belief. Those poor souls have a tendency to try to dictate and dominate and call you things like 'evil sinner' or 'gullible'. They simply have no grasp of the subtleties of knowledge, especially science and history, and take a child-like, simplistic, one dimensional view of scripture. If those people are Christians, I would suggest that they are the ones who anger unbelievers, certainly not the majority of well intentioned, intelligent Christians we meet every day in the real world and on this forum. Unfortunately there a few of the 'poor soul' variety on this forum (most of us know who they are) so if you really do find that you anger unbelievers on a regular basis, maybe you should be talking less and listening more

;) unno Welcome

 

[Aardverk]

;) unno Welcome

No, not you Classik.

 

[Classik]

No, not you Classik.

I know. Just a way of welcoming you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think that is probably true. It likely won't matter how nicely you tell people their lifestyle is an abomination, they will still likely take offense.

Without looking it up (be honest) do you know what that word means in modern English? It will go a long way toward helping you understand why some behaviors are 'abominable' to God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...I was trying to agree that there were certain truths about Christianity that were going to dissatisfy some no matter how well they may be worded. I would not suggest that this in itself was reason to then not utter these truths. There is always a need at some point in everyone's lives for the hearing of some hard truth which we would not choose for ourselves.

:

I've never, ever heard an unbeliever say anything even close to this. Not remotely close. Quite the opposite, like how the truth needs to be stifled.


And I say let those in the church equipped and called do the talking to unbelievers. For the rest of us, let's share the truth as we decide it is safe and appropriate to do that according to the gift and calling we have received and the measure of faith we have been given to walk in it. For me that means pretty much staying away from the unreasonable, even threatening attacks of unbelievers, even within my own sphere of influence.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have read the Bible many times over the last 70 years or so and can't imagine any intelligent person taking offense at what is written. HOWEVER, there are a few people, of any religion or none, who just do not understand the difference between fact and belief. Those poor souls have a tendency to try to dictate and dominate and call you things like 'evil sinner' or 'gullible'.

I'm amazed at your inability to see how contradictory what you say is. You know what the Bible PLAINLY says about the sin nature of man, and you are completely and utterly offended by that...yet you can't imagine that intelligent people would take offense at what the Bible says. This is a perfect example of some of the ludicrous, unreasonable things I've come up against when talking to unbelievers. And as I'm sure you'll be proving it's impossible to make them see how unreasonable they're being...impossible. That's why I've made a personal decision to let others do the dirty work. People more equipped to endure the insane, unreasonable, contradictory rantings of angry, defensive unbelievers bent on suppressing, and changing, even destroying the truth.

They simply have no grasp of the subtleties of knowledge, especially science and history, and take a child-like, simplistic, one dimensional view of scripture.

But somehow being multi-dimensional to some means ignoring, or rationalizing away what is so plainly written in the one dimension of black and white print. That is amazing to me. That is unreasonable. That is nothing more than inventing your own religion. Because that certainly isn't Christianity.

If those people are Christians, I would suggest that they are the ones who anger unbelievers, certainly not the majority of well intentioned, intelligent Christians we meet every day in the real world and on this forum.

If the 'well intentioned, intelligent Christian' means one who changes what the Bible says to protect and placate defiant unbelievers than that is hardly something an honest Christian should be. That is so ridiculous I'm amazed anyone would defend such a ludicrous suggestion.

Unfortunately there a few of the 'poor soul' variety on this forum (most of us know who they are) so if you really do find that you anger unbelievers on a regular basis, maybe you should be talking less and listening more :ohmy

No, that's not the answer. The angry, defensive unbeliever simply can't accept that what they do is wrong. This is easily the majority of unbelievers. Jesus himself said only a few would find the straight and narrow and come to repentance.

You have proven to us here over and over again that you, despite your claim of years and years of reading the Bible, simply do not know the gospel message of the Bible. YOU are the one that is not listening. We did not invent the Christian religion. It's written down in time tested black and white print (and other forms before that). YOU are the one that is not listening and inventing your own religion.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well I think even you acknowledge your belief about not sharing the gospel is wrong.

No. I know that, Biblically, each of us is to soberly consider the gifting and calling we have received and the measure of faith God has given to walk in that gifting and calling.

"3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. 7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully." (Romans 12: NIV1984)

For me that means generally staying out of religious conversations with unbelievers for the purpose of evangelizing them.

What did you think about the way of the master? It is much more aggressive talking to a stranger than a friend and look at the way people react to them. They talk to like gang member and stuff and no harm comes to them.

They do not represent the reality that most unbelievers will hate you because you tell them they are by nature objects of God's wrath that need the forgiveness of God. The pride of self-righteousness is the sickness of all of mankind. Few care to remedy that. Most hate you for suggesting they are sick with that disease.

I think you are off base here. You are assuming that it's just the idea of God they are reacting to and not what you are doing. That isn't how people work.

Doesn't the fact that unbelievers killed an entirely righteous man who told the truth tell you that you can not automatically assume that people who are hated for telling the truth must be doing something wrong?

I know you probably won't recieve this that well but I think you should challenge your beliefs in this area. You might be missing out on opportunities to plant seeds.

Some plant, some water. As I've shown, each of us has to soberly assess which service we are called to and equipped to perform and our faith to do that. I know that I simply don't have the faith to endure the unreasonable responses of those who reject what the Bible teaches no matter how politely or compassionately you tell them that truth.

The problem with thinking the church exists for the sole purpose of planting seeds and birthing believers into the kingdom (and, therefore, that's what everyone has to be doing) is that watering the plants that do spring to life are not properly nurtured and cared for in order to bear the mature fruit of the kingdom. I don't care how profound and real a person's conversion experience was, if that person does not persevere in the faith that saved them as evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit they will have believed in vain and be lost on the Day of Wrath.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Without looking it up (be honest) do you know what that word means in modern English? It will go a long way toward helping you understand why some behaviors are 'abominable' to God.

I know what the word means. As for why one thing is abominable to the Christian God and not other things, it seems to be nothing more than blind fiat. Not that I am terribly concerned about it for the simple reason that I don't believe there is a God whose opinions I should worry about anyway. I'm much more concerned with those who do believe in this God and who want to go around enforcing on others the precepts associated with Him.

 

[jasoncran]

jethro. i had a debate at work with sinners on should pot be legal and also cop entratement.they didnt like that i didnt take their side. i never even mentioned christ.

 

[Aardverk]

I'm amazed at your inability to see how contradictory what you say is. You know what the Bible PLAINLY says about the sin nature of man, and you are completely and utterly offended by that...yet you can't imagine that intelligent people would take offense at what the Bible says. This is a perfect example of some of the ludicrous, unreasonable things I've come up against when talking to unbelievers. And as I'm sure you'll be proving it's impossible to make them see how unreasonable they're being...impossible. That's why I've made a personal decision to let others do the dirty work. People more equipped to endure the insane, unreasonable, contradictory rantings of angry, defensive unbelievers bent on suppressing, and changing, even destroying the truth..........

:toofunny :biglol

Thank you Jethro for the biggest laugh I have had all week. Let me see if I can type whilst still laughing

1. When I read something in the paper - I take it with a pinch of salt.
2. TV, radio & internet news - the same.
3. People's opinions - I recognize as opinions rather than fact.
4. Politicians words - I think about very carefully for they are often being economical with the truth.
5. Anecdotes - I accept as anecdotes.
6. History books - I accept as the author's opinion until I see evidential support. They are based on 1 to 6 (6: often incestuously!)
7. The Bible is a history book - see 1 to 6.

You are very welcome to believe every word as truth, that is your judgement. You have presumably come to that decision by some rational means. I would be delighted to hear your rational explanation but I think it best to simply ignore your insulting, inaccurate and sometimes incoherent rants.

I will pick up on one little thing which you still completely fail to understand. Despite your strange accusations, I take no offense whatsoever from the Bible. I find it, and the effect that it has on people, endlessly fascinating. It is simply the people who want to hit me around the head with it that I find offensive. I fear that they are lost souls. ;)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As for why one thing is abominable to the Christian God and not other things...

If you take the time to examine it you'll see that there are several things that God finds 'detestable', and which he expects his people to regard as 'detestable', too.

The forbidden subject in this forums has hardly been isolated by God as a sort of 'sin of all sins' with it's own description to convey how isolated it is above other sins. If you're interested start in Proverbs 6:16-19.

For all the unbelievers that are offended by the forbidden subject, just talking about the fruit of the Spirit can set them off pretty good, too. Which is probably the main reason why I've decided to stop evangelizing unbelievers. I was stunned by the reaction it gets.

 

[Yah1]

As a Christian, then as a semi-detached Christian, I have always loved discussing any religion. I find it endlessly fascinating from so many aspects. I welcome Jehovah's Witnesses and any other evangelists who knock on my door. Having no firm convictions myself I tend to take an opposite view to whatever they have to say, just to explore what these people know - which is often surprisingly little.

I have read the Bible many times over the last 70 years or so and can't imagine any intelligent person taking offense at what is written. HOWEVER, there are a few people, of any religion or none, who just do not understand the difference between fact and belief. Those poor souls have a tendency to try to dictate and dominate and call you things like 'evil sinner' or 'gullible'. They simply have no grasp of the subtleties of knowledge, especially science and history, and take a child-like, simplistic, one dimensional view of scripture.

If those people are Christians, I would suggest that they are the ones who anger unbelievers, certainly not the majority of well intentioned, intelligent Christians we meet every day in the real world and on this forum.

Unfortunately there a few of the 'poor soul' variety on this forum (most of us know who they are) so if you really do find that you anger unbelievers on a regular basis, maybe you should be talking less and listening more :ohmy

John 2:19 -It took 46 years to build this temple, and you will raise it up in 3 days? If you've come to faith, you know now that the Kingdom of God is inside of you and the temple he is referring too is his body. A Jehovah Witness has not come to this revelation yet. Either you're on the outside or inside the body of Christ. Those that have come to faith know they are on the inside.

You study the scriptures because you think that in them you will find eternal life, and these very scriptures speak about me, yet you are not willing to come to me to have life..John 5:39-47

 

[The Unbeliever]

If you take the time to examine it you'll see that there are several things that God finds 'detestable', and which he expects his people to regard as 'detestable', too.

Yes, I have noticed that.

The forbidden subject in this forums has hardly been isolated by God as a sort of 'sin of all sins' with it's own description to convey how isolated it is above other sins. If you're interested start in Proverbs 6:16-19.

I never claimed it was. When I said "one thing and not others" I didn't mean to imply that there was only one thing. I meant the whole list of offensive behaviors verses another list of potentially offensive behaviors that aren't forbidden.

For all the unbelievers that are offended by the forbidden subject, just talking about the fruit of the Spirit can set them off pretty good, too. Which is probably the main reason why I've decided to stop evangelizing unbelievers. I was stunned by the reaction it gets.

Well, you can talk to me about it. I won't mind at all. I think it's a good list of personal attributes to strive for.

 

[redemption79]

weird, i can not seem to edit my own post? doesn't matter

my take on this issue is that we are all sinners, of course we will all sin against others (believers or non believers), and when we do, i suppose it is important for us to repent and try to change our ways.

unfortunately that does not happen very often ( all parts of it).

but the important thing is to focus on our own walk with God and be the best we can be regardless of what some one else is doing.

as for persecution, yes , that do happens, but before we start saying we are being persecuted by others, we need to examine ourselves first and see if we are indeed being persecuted, or have we sinned against the other person and cause them to persecute us.

but i think one of the few things i have learn so far as a Christian is that there a freedom that comes with living the way God want you to live and not have to constantly looking over your shoulders to see what other Christians are getting away with.

 

[Nick]

weird, i can not seem to edit my own post? doesn't matter.

Editing not allowed after one day.

 

[Classik]

After one day? I haven't noticed that!

 

[Mike]

Several posts have been deleted in which an organization/website that opposes the Gospel has been discussed. Without knowing the hearts of men, it can be difficult to know where an innocent mention and intentional promotion begin and end, but I'm not allowing this to get off the ground. We welcome non-believers, but it should not be too much to ask that they do not sell their alternative messages here where they are welcomed.

 

[Nick]

After one day? I haven't noticed that!

My apologies. It's two days for posts. 12 hours for thread titles.

 

[Classik]

Okay