[_ Old Earth _] Early homosapiens and salvation

[Barbarian]

According to scripture Adam lived how long?

According to God, Adam would die the day he ate from the tree. It's another reason we know that the Fall is not a literal history but an allegory about a real event.

Gen 5:5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

This could also be figuarative, or it could be God's intervention. God says that man's lifespan is three score and seven. And so it seems to be.

That would be quite the evolutionary leap

If for some reason, it wasn't a parable, it would be Gods intervention.

Ah, but Genesis, according to you, is just a literal history, not an illustration of our relationship with God.. Care to explain your new interpretation of Adams long life span?[/QUOTE]

 

[Barbarian]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The difference between late hominins and early humans is very small as per anatomy, brain size, etc.

But there was a significant change in behavior.

Which is what you might expect, if God had made them living souls.

Why?

Because, becoming like God, and being unable to be truly good, man began to feel the need for God, and so we see the beginnings of man's long search for God and for meaning in his existence.

And that, as you now understand, is what we see.

Materialists speak of a problematic "cultural takeoff", which is difficult or impossible to explain in terms of genetics, brain structure, or any other natural phenomenon. They hypothesize some kind of critical point in brains, or in cultural accumulation or whatever, but I do not think they will find the answer in nature.

 

[Barbarian]

The problem is that those are sub human,a mentally challenged person fits that bill. Lower intelligence.sorry you are defining the soul as an a uber modified human when my sister has limited intelligence and is closer to those sub human description. Acts on impulse, yet compassionate.

As I said, this is not something that can be explained by epiphenomena; it's a different thing entirely, and an awesome demonstration of God's wisdom. An unintelligent human can find God as easily as in intelligent one, because it is the soul that yearns for God, not the intellect.

Mark 10:15 Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, shall not enter into it.

Intelligence, being natural, seems to have no bearing on it. This is why all the Pharisee pilpul did them no good at all. God wanted their love, and they tried to make it a legal contract.

 

[civilwarbuff]

According to God, Adam would die the day he ate from the tree. It's another reason we know that the Fall is not a literal history but an allegory about a real event.

You did not answer the question (no surprise there).....How long did Adam live?......It is a simple question and the answer is easily found for Christians......

This could also be figuarative, or it could be God's intervention. God says that man's lifespan is three score and seven. And so it seems to be.

See the above question.....

If for some reason, it wasn't a parable, it would be Gods intervention.
Barbarian says:
Ah, but Genesis, according to you, is just a literal history, not an illustration of our relationship with God.. Care to explain your new interpretation of Adams long life span?

[/QUOTE]
Nothing NEW about it; what does scripture say?
40-50 years of age for "ancient man" according to archaelogical "evidence"....930 years for Adam....that is quite an evolutionism leap, would you not agree?

 

[Barbarian]

Why would you object if Adam age was a parable? Why would you object if God directly let him live for a very long time? Let God be God, and He'll do it the best way.

Barbarian observes:
Ah, but Genesis, according to you, is just a literal history, not an illustration of our relationship with God.. Care to explain your new interpretation of Adams long life span?

Nothing NEW about it;

The consensus among Christians has been since ancient times, that the creation story is allegorical.

40-50 years of age for "ancient man" according to archaelogical "evidence"

And historical observations. Ancient physicians were aware that uncivilized humans didn't live very long; at best the Biblical 70 years old or so.

930 years for Adam....that is quite an evolutionism leap, would you not agree?

Seeing the way the rest of us have always been, one would have to conclude it was either (like much of the creation story) a parable, or possibly God's direct intervention for Adam. Why does that bother you so? Why is it so hard to accept the Biblical three score and ten?

I think you worry too much about all sorts of things that have no bearing on your salvation. It's fun to argue about them, but don't let it drag you down.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. 38This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

Listen to Him, and follow.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why would you object if Adam age was a parable?

Please enlighten us to the parable; it has been asked many times of you and we have got squat from you.

Why would you object if God directly let him live for a very long time? Let God be God, and He'll do it the best way.

What objection was made?...please show me.....or is this just a misrepresentation of what I posted? (Tos 2.4) You should be careful of what you accuse people of.....

The consensus among Christians has been since ancient times, that the creation story is allegorical.

Provide evidence of that then not your opinion......

Seeing the way the rest of us have always been, one would have to conclude it was either (like much of the creation story) a parable, or possibly God's direct intervention for Adam. Why does that bother you so? Why is it so hard to accept the Biblical three score and ten?

Once more provide the parable and explain it......If you cant then your statement is untrue....

 

[Barbarian]

I don't know how to make it any simpler for you. It's not that complex in outline, although the details are involved.

And if you still don't get it, remember it doesn't affect your salvation at all.

Love God. Love your fellow man. Follow Jesus.

Easy to understand. So you can relax.

If you really want to get into the theological basis of Genesis, you can get a copy of The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad Litteram), and read. St. Augustine spent years trying to undertand Genesis as a literal history, and finally concluded that it could not be so.

I think Canto still has it in print. Check Amazon. It's not easy going, but it's the most accepted interpretation of Genesis among Christians and has been for over a thousand years. There's an online version in Latin.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't know how to make it any simpler for you. It's not that complex in outline, although the details are involved.

I don't know how to make it any simpler for you. It's not that complex in outline, although the details are involved.

And if you still don't get it, remember it doesn't affect your salvation at all.

Love God. Love your fellow man. Follow Jesus.

Easy to understand. So you can relax.

So, you are still unable to explain the parable that you claim exists in Genesis but still insist that it is a parable?......What can I say.....except maybe it is not a parable?

If you really want to get into the theological basis of Genesis, you can get a copy of The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad Litteram), and read. St. Augustine spent years trying to undertand Genesis as a literal history, and finally concluded that it could not be so.

I think Canto still has it in print. Check Amazon. It's not easy going, but it's the most accepted interpretation of Genesis among Christians and has been for over a thousand years. There's an online version in Latin, but it's not Church Latin.

Well, rather than go into a big long reading session how about we discuss it here?.....you know, using scripture and such?
I am reasonably intelligent, or so I have been told (not by everyone of course).......

 

[Barbarian]

Well, rather than go into a big long reading session how about we discuss it here?.....you know, using scripture and such?
I am reasonably intelligent, or so I have been told (not by everyone of course).......

Sure. But there's no royal road to theology, either. If you want to discuss it intelligently, you have some reading to do. I don't think there's a Cliff's Notes version for you. (Barbarian checks)

Nope. Confessions is there, though, and it alludes to some of his theology on Genesis. Would that help?

We could start a new thread on The Literal Meaning of Genesis.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Sure. But there's no royal road to theology, either. If you want to discuss it intelligently, you have some reading to do. I don't think there's a Cliff's Notes version for you. (Barbarian checks)

Nope. Confessions is there, though, and it alludes to some of his theology on Genesis. Would that help?

We could start a new thread on The Literal Meaning of Genesis.

Well, since you just want to be small about it we can just skip it.....How about that?

 

[Barbarian]

Well, since you just want to be small about it we can just skip it.....How about that?

It's pretty heavy going, although it's accessible if you want to put in the time.

It's on the theology board. If you feel up to it, drop in and take part.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't know how to make it any simpler for you. It's not that complex in outline, although the details are involved.

And if you still don't get it, remember it doesn't affect your salvation at all.

Love God. Love your fellow man. Follow Jesus.

Easy to understand. So you can relax.

That's not a parable; that is the gospel boiled down to its bare essence.
Parable:
A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters.[1] A parable is a type of analogy.[2] wiki

Now that you know what a parable is, try answering again......

 

[Barbarian]

That's not a parable

Those are instructions, directly from God.

Parables are stories that illustrate an important truth, even if they aren't literally true. I thought you knew.

 

[Cygnus]

Care to explain your new interpretation of Adams long life span?

Adam lived as old as the Bible says he did. Now, I know you need to change that and have him die much. much younger....but I have no reason to filter Genesis and present a false Genesis.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Those are instructions, directly from God.

Parables are stories that illustrate an important truth, even if they aren't literally true. I thought you knew.

And so far you have failed to show how the creation account is a parable even though you have been given numerous opportunity........

 

[Barbarian]

I don't think denial is going to work for you at this point. C'mon over to the theology board; we'll go over Augustine's The Literal Meaning of Genesis. Hopefully, that will help.

 

[Barbarian]

Adam lived as old as the Bible says he did. Now, I know you need to change that and have him die much. much younger.

No, that's wrong, too. For example, even if it's not a parable, there's no reason that God couldn't intervene and have Adam live longer than the 70 years or so that He ordained for men.

but I have no reason to filter Genesis and present a false Genesis.

I'm pretty sure you honestly believe your new doctrines. But they are not scripturally supported.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't think denial is going to work for you at this point. C'mon over to the theology board; we'll go over Augustine's The Literal Meaning of Genesis. Hopefully, that will help.

Why? You are still unwilling/unable to answer the question here; no reason to expect a change over there. We keep asking for the same information and we keep getting squat (your knees must be getting tired from squatting so long).....one more time:
Provide the parable that you claim is Genesis......this is a put up or shut time......so far you have only been able to shut up....or spout nonsense.

 

[Cygnus]

Why? You are still unwilling/unable to answer the question here; no reason to expect a change over there. We keep asking for the same information and we keep getting squat (your knees must be getting tired from squatting so long).....one more time:
Provide the parable that you claim is Genesis......this is a put up or shut time......so far you have only been able to shut up....or spout nonsense.

I have to agree wth you. I would say Barbarian has had his hat handed to him. Perhaps he should run for a political office where spinning and avoiding the question is the tactic.

 

[Jim Parker]

That's not a parable; that is the gospel boiled down to its bare essence.
Parable:
A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have human characters.[1] A parable is a type of analogy.[2] wiki

Now that you know what a parable is, try answering again......

You left out "myth."
A traditional story, especially one concerning (1) the early history of a people or (2) explaining some natural or (3) social phenomenon, and (4) typically involving supernatural beings or events.
(1) Early history: Creation, Adam & Eve, the Garden, line of Cain, line of Seth, Noah, Abram
(2) Natural phenomena: creation, mist watering the land, first rain, flood
(3) Social Phenomenon: the fall, death, sacrificial religion, founding of first city by Cain
(4) Supernatural beings: God, the devil (serpent), Nephilim, angel

Iakov the fool