Eternal hell with new creation?

[T. E. Smith]

The new creation theme in the Bible does not seem to go with the notion of an eternal hell. Isaiah 55 and Romans 8 teach God's renewal of the world into perfection. It is said that in the future, Christ will be "all in all." It does not seem to make sense for God's new creation, then, to have an eternal torture chamber in it. In the new creation, God returns the world to its state before sin. How can Hell be part of that intent? How can Christ be all in all, with unbelievers tortured forever?

 

[jerry63935]

I wonder what would happen if...after Jusus's return if the entire body of Christ (us), all prayed at once for the condemned to be released?

Would God do it in His infinite mercy and love for His children? But then, what if He says if there are only 5 righteous people?! Uh Oh.

we cant pray anyone out of hell .you pray for them while they are alive read Luke 16
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


once judgment is passed once one dies there is no second chance . notice the rich man could feel the torment . then he wanted some one to tell his family .answer is no

 

[keiw1]

we cant pray anyone out of hell .you pray for them while they are alive read Luke 16
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


once judgment is passed once one dies there is no second chance . notice the rich man could feel the torment . then he wanted some one to tell his family .answer is no

That account of the rich man was symbolism. If one could actually see their loved ones suffering, it would be very difficult to find happiness. There is no literal eternal suffering, Gods love and justice makes it an impossibility.

 

[jerry63935]

That account of the rich man was symbolism. If one could actually see their loved ones suffering, it would be very difficult to find happiness. There is no literal eternal suffering, Gods love and justice makes it an impossibility.

i disagree the Bible does not say symbolism a certain Rich man not hear a parable

There is no literal eternal suffering

that goes against scripture

 

[keiw1]

i disagree the Bible does not say symbolism a certain Rich man not hear a parable




that goes against scripture

Those in the light, know 100% it was symbolic.

 

[jerry63935]

Those in the light, know 100% it was symbolic.

your over stepping your post lets not go there

 

[rjs330]

T.E is no longer a member. When you see a line across someone's screen name they are no longer here

Thankyou

 

[rjs330]

Oh, God exists all right. He even went to great lengths to save us from eternal damnation.

Jude 7 (KJV) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (KJV) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:11 (KJV) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

It's kinda like forever, and instead of denying its reality, we need to come clean before the Lord and receive His forgiveness offered in the Gospel.

Yes the words are pretty clear. For ever and ever, eternal, everlasting all mean it won't come to an end. Any more than eternal life comes to an end. We don't say that Jesus words about heaven and eternal life are all symbolic and don't really mean we will live with him in glory for all eternity. No we believe we will. Then why do we believe that Christs words are all symbolic about eternal punishment and we won't face everlasting and eternal punishment?

I thinks it's because our human minds can't rape our heads around the fact that God is just and what that means. His justice is right and holy, that's why believers are saved by their faith in Christ for their righteousness. God's justice is right to save us because of his Son's sacrifice for us and becoming our covering.

Those that reject that deserve what they get because God's justice is right. He won't punish everyone equally. He punishes according to their deeds and since Jesus blood does NOT cover their deeds they are all laid bare before a holy God. But not all deeds are the same.

 

[Runner]

What is closer to the truth for you?

As I said, I'm content with the faith that whatever Hell is, we'll see in the end it's worthy of the God in whom we believe. My intuitive guess is that what most Christians believe about Jesus being "the only way," as well as what they understand about salvation, is much too narrow. My intuitive guess is that heaven will be populated by far more people than most Christians imagine. But your guess, or the most hellfire-and-brimstone guess of the most literal Bible-thumper, is as good as mine.

 

[jerry63935]

that heaven will be populated by far more people than most Christians imagine.

no doubt were not the judge no matter what we believe facts are we must be born again and the only way to that is through Jesus way truth life. no one comes to the father but through Him salvation is a relationship with Christ in our heart . any other way than Jesus NOONE will enter the kingdom of heaven saved by grace through faith . BTW do you know where the term Bible thumper come from ? when we get to heaven your not going to asked how much Bible you know (all though knowing the Bible helps )your not going to be asked what denom you... the only thing that matters is your name written in the lamb book of life

 

[GodsGrace]

As I said, I'm content with the faith that whatever Hell is, we'll see in the end it's worthy of the God in whom we believe. My intuitive guess is that what most Christians believe about Jesus being "the only way," as well as what they understand about salvation, is much too narrow. My intuitive guess is that heaven will be populated by far more people than most Christians imagine. But your guess, or the most hellfire-and-brimstone guess of the most literal Bible-thumper, is as good as mine.

Agreed as to all of the above.

 

[crossnote]

Perhaps we can agree that heaven and hell are polar opposites.
To the degree one experiences total bliss in heaven; to the same degree one experiences total torment in hell. Yet both are forever.

 

[jerry63935]

Those in the light, know 100% it was symbolic.

you must be using artificial light

 

[hawkman]

As I said, I'm content with the faith that whatever Hell is, we'll see in the end it's worthy of the God in whom we believe. My intuitive guess is that what most Christians believe about Jesus being "the only way," as well as what they understand about salvation, is much too narrow. My intuitive guess is that heaven will be populated by far more people than most Christians imagine. But your guess, or the most hellfire-and-brimstone guess of the most literal Bible-thumper, is as good as mine.

Jesus is the only way. Too narrow? We have it in Jesus's own words here in John14:6 .
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Also in Acts chapter 4

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No up vote from me on this Runner post .

 

[jerry63935]

@Runner post

his post is running out of steam

 

[keiw1]

you must be using artificial light

How much happiness would one have if they could look down and see their loved ones suffering eternally? Or is bible truth that you must have missed proof it was symbolism? Ecclesiastes 9:5-- The dead know nothing at all.) That would make it impossible for them to know they are suffering or need a drink.

 

[crossnote]

How much happiness would one have if they could look down and see their loved ones suffering eternally? Or is bible truth that you must have missed proof it was symbolism? Ecclesiastes 9:5-- The dead know nothing at all.) That would make it impossible for them to know they are suffering or need a drink.

Let's read that verse in context and you might see it says something other than what you are trying to force the text to say....

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
(Ecc 9:4-6)

 

[D-D-W]

Those in the light, know 100% it was symbolic.

Cant be symbolic. The story actually has a real person name in it: Lazarus. No simile or parable had actual names.

BTW - I find that statement rather insulting and condescending.

 

[D-D-W]

How much happiness would one have if they could look down and see their loved ones suffering eternally? Or is bible truth that you must have missed proof it was symbolism? Ecclesiastes 9:5-- The dead know nothing at all.) That would make it impossible for them to know they are suffering or need a drink.

Ecclesastes was written from the viewpoint of someone in this life - not from the vantage point of eternity.

So as it appears TO US who are alive, the dead are not suffering.

 

[keiw1]

Let's read that verse in context and you might see it says something other than what you are trying to force the text to say....

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
(Ecc 9:4-6)

Yes they know not anything. On the day of ones death, all thought stops.

 

[keiw1]

Cant be symbolic. The story actually has a real person name in it: Lazarus. No simile or parable had actual names.

BTW - I find that statement rather insulting and condescending.

Maybe should meet the true God--Deuteronomy 32:4= The rock, perfect in his activity, For all his ways are justice( perfect balance on his justice scales= an eye for an eye) a God of faithfulness with whom there is no injustice. Righteous and upright is he.

So with perfect balance on his scales--He could not or would not condemn a nothing mortal to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering for 70-100 years of an unrepented life.
Proving that story was symbolism. Jesus said--Those walking the broad and spacious path will be destroyed.
The true God set before all-LIFE or DEATH, (both are eternal)-Deuteronomy 30:19