n2thelight
Member
AMEN!!!!!
Don't know why people tend to over look that fact.....God says He will.........IF
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
AMEN!!!!!
Don't know why people tend to over look that fact.....God says He will.........IF
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (NKJV)
Causative, yes?
n2thelight
Member
Jesus
Jesus had quite a bit to say about our salvation, since He is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Sometimes He spoke in parables and at other times He spoke very plainly about the issue. Here are a few examples:
Matthew 10:22 (Endure until the end)
Matthew 24:12 & 13 (Endure until the end)
Mark 4:3-20 (Parable of the Sower)
Mark 13:13 (Endure until the end)
John 15:2 & 6 (You must remain in me)
Revelation 2:5 (Remove lampstand)
Revelation 2:10 (Be faithful unto death)
Revelation 3:1-5 (Erase name from the Book of Life)
In each of these scriptures we see Jesus portray our salvation as being conditional.
Peter
Peter doesn't say a whole lot about this issue, but what he does say is very succinct and very powerful. These are the three main verses:
II Peter 1:10 (IF you are diligent you will not fall)
II Peter 2:20-22 (Know Christ then overcome by sin; worse than before)
II Peter 3:17 (Fall from your steadfastness)
[FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif]"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (KJV)
[FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif]
[FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif]YOUR SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL! If you were condemned outside of Christ ("before you were saved") how can it get any worse? Because then you were ignorant, now (after you were saved) you know the Truth, but choose to reject it.
Paul
The Apostle Paul is by far the most prolific writer of the New Testament, so it is therefore no surprise to find that he addressed this issue quite thoroughly. The following verses are but a sample of many:
Romans 11:20-23 (Branches grafted then broken off)
I Corinthians 10:11 & 12 (Take heed lest you fall)
I Corinthians 15:1-2 (Believed in vain)
Galatians 5:4 (You have fallen from Grace)
Galatians 6:9 (Reap IF not faint)
Colossians 1:23 (IF you continue in the faith)
I Thessalonians 3:8 (IF you stand fast in the Lord)
I Timothy 2:15 (IF they continue in faith)
I Timothy 3:6 & 7 (Recent convert + conceit = condemnation of the Devil)
I Timothy 4:1 (Some will depart from the faith)
Hebrews 3:6 ( IF we hold fast to the end)
Hebrews 3:14 (Partakers of Christ, IF we hold steadfast)
Hebrews 6:4-6 (If they fall away...)
Hebrews 10:38 & 39 (Believe = Saved; Drawback = Perdition)
As you can see from these 14 examples, the Apostle Paul did not want anyone left in the dark on this subject. Through these verses Paul hands us a candle, or maybe we should say a flood light, to help us see our way to the TRUTH! Most of the verses are so self-explanatory that it would belabor the point, so we will stick with examining just a few.
Firstly, let us take a brief look at the tiny little word "if." The word "if" is the epitome of conditionality. In every conditional phrase you will find the little two letter word "if." IF you do this, I will do that. IF you work 40 hours per week, you will get a paycheck. IF you speed, you will get a ticket—etc. So we see half of these verses using this conditional word in association with our salvation. "IF we continue in the faith"; "IF we stand fast"; "IF we faint not"... and the list goes on. Colossians 1: 21-23 is a good example. Paul clearly says, "Although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister."
Like I said earlier,keep sinning without repenting and see what Christ says to you
Matthew 7:23 (Whole Chapter)
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Jesus had quite a bit to say about our salvation, since He is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Sometimes He spoke in parables and at other times He spoke very plainly about the issue. Here are a few examples:
Matthew 10:22 (Endure until the end)
Matthew 24:12 & 13 (Endure until the end)
Mark 4:3-20 (Parable of the Sower)
Mark 13:13 (Endure until the end)
John 15:2 & 6 (You must remain in me)
Revelation 2:5 (Remove lampstand)
Revelation 2:10 (Be faithful unto death)
Revelation 3:1-5 (Erase name from the Book of Life)
In each of these scriptures we see Jesus portray our salvation as being conditional.
Peter
Peter doesn't say a whole lot about this issue, but what he does say is very succinct and very powerful. These are the three main verses:
II Peter 1:10 (IF you are diligent you will not fall)
II Peter 2:20-22 (Know Christ then overcome by sin; worse than before)
II Peter 3:17 (Fall from your steadfastness)
[FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif]"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (KJV)
[FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif]
[FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif]YOUR SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL! If you were condemned outside of Christ ("before you were saved") how can it get any worse? Because then you were ignorant, now (after you were saved) you know the Truth, but choose to reject it.
Paul
The Apostle Paul is by far the most prolific writer of the New Testament, so it is therefore no surprise to find that he addressed this issue quite thoroughly. The following verses are but a sample of many:
Romans 11:20-23 (Branches grafted then broken off)
I Corinthians 10:11 & 12 (Take heed lest you fall)
I Corinthians 15:1-2 (Believed in vain)
Galatians 5:4 (You have fallen from Grace)
Galatians 6:9 (Reap IF not faint)
Colossians 1:23 (IF you continue in the faith)
I Thessalonians 3:8 (IF you stand fast in the Lord)
I Timothy 2:15 (IF they continue in faith)
I Timothy 3:6 & 7 (Recent convert + conceit = condemnation of the Devil)
I Timothy 4:1 (Some will depart from the faith)
Hebrews 3:6 ( IF we hold fast to the end)
Hebrews 3:14 (Partakers of Christ, IF we hold steadfast)
Hebrews 6:4-6 (If they fall away...)
Hebrews 10:38 & 39 (Believe = Saved; Drawback = Perdition)
As you can see from these 14 examples, the Apostle Paul did not want anyone left in the dark on this subject. Through these verses Paul hands us a candle, or maybe we should say a flood light, to help us see our way to the TRUTH! Most of the verses are so self-explanatory that it would belabor the point, so we will stick with examining just a few.
Firstly, let us take a brief look at the tiny little word "if." The word "if" is the epitome of conditionality. In every conditional phrase you will find the little two letter word "if." IF you do this, I will do that. IF you work 40 hours per week, you will get a paycheck. IF you speed, you will get a ticket—etc. So we see half of these verses using this conditional word in association with our salvation. "IF we continue in the faith"; "IF we stand fast"; "IF we faint not"... and the list goes on. Colossians 1: 21-23 is a good example. Paul clearly says, "Although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister."
Like I said earlier,keep sinning without repenting and see what Christ says to you
Matthew 7:23 (Whole Chapter)
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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I have never denied that this condition (IF) was on man from day one - man is born in the flesh and all in the flesh are under the law - the law of works. But I'm not talking of day one - I'm talking of the day that you were regenerated, and were born of God in the spirit. Thenceforth, you are not under the law but under grace. And here, there are no conditionals for us to fulfill because we have found under the law that we are not able to fulfill these conditions - because of sin in the flesh. That's why we now rest on grace, for God to fulfill these conditions in us through Christ and Christ alone.Elijah674 said:
So, if you're still seeing the conditional (if), then you're not seeing beyond the law.
Absolutely - but based on whose obedience is where we differ. You expect eternal life to be given based on man's obedience - where you presume man in the flesh is able to discern the Spiritual commandments and obey God. I believe Rom 5:19 and rest on His works alone. And lest you try to infer that I'm implying man need not do any good works - I rest on His works alone which include His works of setting me free from sin and working His righteousness in me. Man is always held accountable for disobeying God - but man in the flesh can do nothing but disobey. Which is why grace is so precious, that God Himself works in us what we ought to but cannot because of sin in our flesh.Elijah674 said:
n2thelight
Member
It's called REPENT
- Luke 13:3 (Whole Chapter)
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:5 (Whole Chapter)
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 16:30 (Whole Chapter)
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. - Luke 17:3 (Whole Chapter)
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. - Luke 17:4 (Whole Chapter)
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. - Acts 2:38 (Whole Chapter)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 3:19 (Whole Chapter)
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. - Acts 8:22 (Whole Chapter)
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. - Acts 17:30 (Whole Chapter)
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: - Acts 26:20 (Whole Chapter)
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. - 2 Corinthians 7:8 (Whole Chapter)
For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. - Hebrews 7:21 (Whole Chapter)
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
- Revelation 2:5 (Whole Chapter)
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. - Revelation 2:16 (Whole Chapter)
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. - Revelation 2:21 (Whole Chapter)
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. - Revelation 2:22 (Whole Chapter)
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. - Revelation 3:3 (Whole Chapter)
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:19 (Whole Chapter)
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. -
Free,
Aren't Romans 11:22-23 stating the Law of faith - if you have faith in Christ, you shall have eternal life ; if you do not have faith in Christ, you shall perish.
Are you inferring from this that our believing is a causative factor of our salvation? Isn't that defeating the purpose of faith - by making faith also a work to be done by man? If such faith itself is received by grace, how then does it become causative?
Aren't Romans 11:22-23 stating the Law of faith - if you have faith in Christ, you shall have eternal life ; if you do not have faith in Christ, you shall perish.
Are you inferring from this that our believing is a causative factor of our salvation? Isn't that defeating the purpose of faith - by making faith also a work to be done by man? If such faith itself is received by grace, how then does it become causative?
Verses 20-22 state that we will be cut off if we don't continue "in His goodness." There are other passages which state something very similar.
All I am saying is that the choice is ours to believe or not to believe, to continue in that belief or not continue in that belief. Does the Bible suggest that we can lose our salvation? It certainly seems that way.
n2thelight,
Would you say this verse captures what you're saying?
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
If you omit v.23 and read the above, I think that would give rise to the OSAS(once saved always saved) doctrine. Without v.23, one would think that he fits the bill of once being alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds. He'd then read that Christ has reconciled him in His body of flesh by His death and then go about thinking he is free to do what he wants - even sin - because Christ has anyway reconciled him.
v.23 is given to stop such false security.
Eternal Security does not say you have to repent and believe once and then rest on that one event for your justification. It says that we must continue to repent from sin towards God and continue to believe in the sufficiency of Christ as our righteousness and justification - continually.
But we are not able to repent and believe in the flesh, because of sin in the flesh. Wretched man that I am - who will deliver me from this horrendous position of not being able to do what I ought to do? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! For He preserves me by His grace by granting me repentance and gifting me faith out of His mercy and compassion. Now, the evidence of God working His righteousness in me is found in my continuing to repent and believe in Christ. So what good I do is evidential of what He does in me and has no causative element in it.
Do you believe man has some inherent goodness in his flesh?
You need a regenerative work of God that removes this hardened heart and gives him a new heart that can respond to God. You need God to renew this man's spirit to be enlightened in Spiritual understanding. You need the Spirit of God to convict this man of sin, for him to recognize it. All these are done by the grace of God out of His compassion. Having now a heart and mind that can discern the spiritual truths of God's love and mercy, and having recognition of sin in the flesh by the working of the Spirit, - man is lead to repentance - and therein we say, God has granted man repentance.
Do you believe that man in the flesh is able to obey a single commandment of God?
I guess we don't mean the above in the same way - when I believe He is the Author and Finisher of my faith, I really believe that He does a perfect and complete work of authoring and finishing my faith. And as long as I believe this, I know that He is working His righteousness and sanctification in me. This is not to say that I rest on my believing as assurance - I rest on Him as assurance - having been given this assurance from God Himself.
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Would you say this verse captures what you're saying?
Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
If you omit v.23 and read the above, I think that would give rise to the OSAS(once saved always saved) doctrine. Without v.23, one would think that he fits the bill of once being alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds. He'd then read that Christ has reconciled him in His body of flesh by His death and then go about thinking he is free to do what he wants - even sin - because Christ has anyway reconciled him.
v.23 is given to stop such false security.
Eternal Security does not say you have to repent and believe once and then rest on that one event for your justification. It says that we must continue to repent from sin towards God and continue to believe in the sufficiency of Christ as our righteousness and justification - continually.
But we are not able to repent and believe in the flesh, because of sin in the flesh. Wretched man that I am - who will deliver me from this horrendous position of not being able to do what I ought to do? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! For He preserves me by His grace by granting me repentance and gifting me faith out of His mercy and compassion. Now, the evidence of God working His righteousness in me is found in my continuing to repent and believe in Christ. So what good I do is evidential of what He does in me and has no causative element in it.
Do you believe man has some inherent goodness in his flesh?
Apart from God's working in me, I will keep sinning and I will never repent and I will have no part in the Kingdom of God. Which part of Eternal Security says we are permitted to keep sinning without repenting? Eternal Security says that God preserves us from not remaining in sin - which we would remain in, apart from His grace - by granting us repentance and forgiving us our sins. It says that God shall be our righteousness and sanctification. And hence we are to rest on such works of God alone for our salvation. If one is to have eternal security, it rests on these continual works of God.
Yes, God commands every man to turn away from his hating of God and from being a rebel in enmity with Him. But you don't call a rebel as that if he simply obeys this command of God to surrender, right? Man in the flesh rebels against this command too and does not obey it. He does it in ignorance because of his mind being blinded by the devil and because of him being deceived by sin in the flesh - but how can this natural man discern the spiritual truth of his nature? How can this man with a hardened heart surrender to the love of God?
You need a regenerative work of God that removes this hardened heart and gives him a new heart that can respond to God. You need God to renew this man's spirit to be enlightened in Spiritual understanding. You need the Spirit of God to convict this man of sin, for him to recognize it. All these are done by the grace of God out of His compassion. Having now a heart and mind that can discern the spiritual truths of God's love and mercy, and having recognition of sin in the flesh by the working of the Spirit, - man is lead to repentance - and therein we say, God has granted man repentance.
Do you believe that man in the flesh is able to obey a single commandment of God?
Free,
Isn't that defeating the purpose of faith - by making faith also a work to be done by man?
And if faith itself is received by grace, how then does it become causative?
What exactly do we mean by "believing in Christ" - isn't it believing in the sufficiency of His works alone to justify us? So if one does not believe His works are sufficient, then such a one tries to perfect his salvation by his own works - which are the works of the flesh.
Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
And I'm not so sure about the choice to believe and not believe. I haven't given this much thought until now - so I'm genuinely not sure. Can one simply believe the opposite of some belief that he holds now, for about a day or something? You may say that one has to choose to do that and then it's possible - but I ask again - can one choose to believe the opposite of a belief for sometime? And since one can choose this way or that - he need not fear losing this original belief - he can simply choose to believe the original belief back after that duration of time. Do you really think it's in man's capacity to do this? I'm inclined to think not.
In that sense, I think man believes what sin deceives him to believe until God sets him free from such ignorance by revealing to him, Christ - the truth. This revelation is what I consider as the gifting of faith - until then all go about having images of Christ, thinking they are worshiping the true God just like those jews who thought they were serving the true God in persecuting Christians. And this gifting of faith continues - in making us grow in the knowledge of God, the truth.
We have to rest on the works of God alone - when you bring some reliance on man's own capacity, we corrupt God's work of salvation with the evil works of the flesh. The flesh must not glory in any small way before God.
Okay, so you do consider our believing to be a causative factor of our salvation. Then my conflicts remain -
Isn't that defeating the purpose of faith - by making faith also a work to be done by man?
And if faith itself is received by grace, how then does it become causative?
What exactly do we mean by "believing in Christ" - isn't it believing in the sufficiency of His works alone to justify us? So if one does not believe His works are sufficient, then such a one tries to perfect his salvation by his own works - which are the works of the flesh.
Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
And I'm not so sure about the choice to believe and not believe. I haven't given this much thought until now - so I'm genuinely not sure. Can one simply believe the opposite of some belief that he holds now, for about a day or something? You may say that one has to choose to do that and then it's possible - but I ask again - can one choose to believe the opposite of a belief for sometime? And since one can choose this way or that - he need not fear losing this original belief - he can simply choose to believe the original belief back after that duration of time. Do you really think it's in man's capacity to do this? I'm inclined to think not.
In that sense, I think man believes what sin deceives him to believe until God sets him free from such ignorance by revealing to him, Christ - the truth. This revelation is what I consider as the gifting of faith - until then all go about having images of Christ, thinking they are worshiping the true God just like those jews who thought they were serving the true God in persecuting Christians. And this gifting of faith continues - in making us grow in the knowledge of God, the truth.
We have to rest on the works of God alone - when you bring some reliance on man's own capacity, we corrupt God's work of salvation with the evil works of the flesh. The flesh must not glory in any small way before God.
Are you trying to imply that since there is a possibility of man losing his salvation, eternal security cannot be true. It's funny that way - because I use the same reason to believe eternal security is true. If there was no possibility of man losing his salvation, eternal security becomes meaningless because what are we then being secured against. The possibility of falling away is very much there and eternal security is the assurance from God that He will preserve His people against such a falling away. It is meant to reveal to us the grace and power of God in even this. Scripture even corrects man's flawed thinking that leads him to conclude that since it is God who is working, man can remain complacent - Scripture corrects it by saying that since it is God who is working, man must not be complacent.
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
As long as a Christian continues to trust in Christ's merits and trusts in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they are continuously saved by faith alone.
Salvation is likened to a marriage. You don't slip in and out of marriage everyday with your wife or husband do you? The only sin you can commit to be lost is to willfully go off and have adultery with another harlot women (false religion) and renounce Christ. The same applies to earthly marriage, you are divorced the moment you commit adultery, but no other sin will sever your marriage vows.
Also, Jesus said nobody can snatch them out of His hands, John 10:28.
Also, in John 14 Jesus promised to come back for you to take you to heaven if you trust in Him.
Also, if you slip in and out of salvation or can lose your salvation, even though you continuously have faith in Jesus, then you are saved by WORKS, not faith!
1 John 5:13 says you can have ETERNAL LIFE, but if you can lose it, then Bible contradicts itself and it was only TEMPORARY LIFE!
Salvation is likened to a marriage. You don't slip in and out of marriage everyday with your wife or husband do you? The only sin you can commit to be lost is to willfully go off and have adultery with another harlot women (false religion) and renounce Christ. The same applies to earthly marriage, you are divorced the moment you commit adultery, but no other sin will sever your marriage vows.
Also, Jesus said nobody can snatch them out of His hands, John 10:28.
Also, in John 14 Jesus promised to come back for you to take you to heaven if you trust in Him.
Also, if you slip in and out of salvation or can lose your salvation, even though you continuously have faith in Jesus, then you are saved by WORKS, not faith!
1 John 5:13 says you can have ETERNAL LIFE, but if you can lose it, then Bible contradicts itself and it was only TEMPORARY LIFE!
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
God establishes The Believer !
There are Two things I know for sure in regards to those who deny Eternal Security, #1. They do not have God given Faith and #2. They are trusting in themselves .
Those who do believe can rest assured that God will Establish them through the Gospel. Rom 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
God is Faithful to stablish us and keep us from evil 2 Thess 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
You see that. Who SHALL stablish you and keep you from evil ! Thats a Promise !
The word stablish in the Romans verse is the greek word sterizo and means:
to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
to strengthen, make firm
to render constant, confirm, one's mind
God is of the Power, the Ability to make us Believers constant, stable, to render stable in one's Mind.
Lets look a little deeper at the word sterizo it is made up of two words one of which is histēmi and it literally means this:
to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
to make firm, fix establish
1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
I am emphasizing the word cause, they are being caused to be constant and firm in the Faith.
This is actually a Covenant Blessing, Remember Ezk 36:26-27
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And yes, the same word stablish as in Rom 16:25 is that of 2 Thess 3:3
And the Promise is God is Faithful who shall stablish you AND keep us from evil. Thats keeping evil from us and us from evil..
There is no way in the world that one with God given Faith can ever read these words and worry about loosing their Salvation, or departing from the Faith of the Truth. Its simply impossible to do, and may God be Praised for it..Praise is due His Faithfulness not ours.. Perseverance is from the Lord..
There are Two things I know for sure in regards to those who deny Eternal Security, #1. They do not have God given Faith and #2. They are trusting in themselves .
Those who do believe can rest assured that God will Establish them through the Gospel. Rom 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
God is Faithful to stablish us and keep us from evil 2 Thess 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
You see that. Who SHALL stablish you and keep you from evil ! Thats a Promise !
The word stablish in the Romans verse is the greek word sterizo and means:
to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
to strengthen, make firm
to render constant, confirm, one's mind
God is of the Power, the Ability to make us Believers constant, stable, to render stable in one's Mind.
Lets look a little deeper at the word sterizo it is made up of two words one of which is histēmi and it literally means this:
to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
to make firm, fix establish
1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
I am emphasizing the word cause, they are being caused to be constant and firm in the Faith.
This is actually a Covenant Blessing, Remember Ezk 36:26-27
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And yes, the same word stablish as in Rom 16:25 is that of 2 Thess 3:3
And the Promise is God is Faithful who shall stablish you AND keep us from evil. Thats keeping evil from us and us from evil..
There is no way in the world that one with God given Faith can ever read these words and worry about loosing their Salvation, or departing from the Faith of the Truth. Its simply impossible to do, and may God be Praised for it..Praise is due His Faithfulness not ours.. Perseverance is from the Lord..
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
I disagree with your comments and your reasoning. Thomas doubted, Peter doubted and many Christians go through times of doubt about their eternal salvation...but that doesn't mean they are evil for worrying about loosing their salvation. It's a normal journey of being a Christian, we go through the good days and bad days and go through certain times and worrying times.
But thank goodness God is not a legalistic Monster as some people claim He is..for God is filled with empathy and understanding and compassion and He understand our daily struggles, yet condemns us not!
It usually comes down to when a person trusts in their feelings rather than the word of God. I admit that many times I don't feel loved by God, but I know I am because the Scripture says so. I admit that many times I don't feel forgiven and saved by God, but I know I am because the Scripture says so. But I also admit that at certain times I have a very bad day and may doubt my salvation..and that's part of being a human and yet God knows my heart and completely empathizes with me and understands. God is good.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
ts:
You disagree with the Truth I have presented and you have failed in being able to refute it.
You disagree with the Truth I have presented and you have failed in being able to refute it.
E
Elijah674
Guest
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
On the contrary, I not only refuted your comments I showed your comments contradict Scripture.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
It is antichrist ! -
To deny the Eternal Security of the Believer is a teaching of the Antichrist and it is a anti God Teaching. That means the teaching is against God and all His Glorious Attributes in order to exalt man.
Besides the scripture which is of believers in 1 Pet 1:5
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
That states Believers are being kept by the Power of God
The Antichrist teachers and followers deny this.
Another scripture that states that God keeps believers from all evil is here 2 Thess 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
Now if one departs from God who was a True Believer, then the Lord has failed in His Faithfulness to establish the believer and to keep them from evil.
Departing from the Lord is evil according to Heb 3:12
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
And it also makes scripture a liar in another place which states the True Believer, one born of God keepeth himself.
1 Jn 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The sinneth not here is not a sinless perfection, but the sin here is apostasy, departing from God. The One Born of God cannot commit that sin. Why ? Because he has been born of God.
The word born as in "born of God" is a perfect passive participle, meaning born once and for all in the past, with results into the future. Its a permanent birth. So how can one permanently born of God depart from God ?
Those who deny this are of Antichrist, there is no other way to put it.
To deny the Eternal Security of the Believer is a teaching of the Antichrist and it is a anti God Teaching. That means the teaching is against God and all His Glorious Attributes in order to exalt man.
Besides the scripture which is of believers in 1 Pet 1:5
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
That states Believers are being kept by the Power of God
The Antichrist teachers and followers deny this.
Another scripture that states that God keeps believers from all evil is here 2 Thess 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
Now if one departs from God who was a True Believer, then the Lord has failed in His Faithfulness to establish the believer and to keep them from evil.
Departing from the Lord is evil according to Heb 3:12
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
And it also makes scripture a liar in another place which states the True Believer, one born of God keepeth himself.
1 Jn 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The sinneth not here is not a sinless perfection, but the sin here is apostasy, departing from God. The One Born of God cannot commit that sin. Why ? Because he has been born of God.
The word born as in "born of God" is a perfect passive participle, meaning born once and for all in the past, with results into the future. Its a permanent birth. So how can one permanently born of God depart from God ?
Those who deny this are of Antichrist, there is no other way to put it.
Please don't demonize those who disagree with you.
2
T
TruthSeeker2012
Guest
Only those who come to Christ with genuine faith are sanctified. You teach a false doctrine that it works differently.
Acts 26:18 ‘to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
See that? Sanctified by FAITH IN JESUS!
People are only sanctified at the moment they come to Christ by faith, and not before.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Please don't demonize those who disagree with you.
I don't mean to do that, but my point is that the teaching is against what God teaches in the scripture, in my opinion. So that is what I mean by anti God or anti Christ, against their Truth.