Eternal Security of the Believer !

[Ernest T. Bass]

Thats easy, if that happens, they were never saved in the first place !

As I posted in my prior post above "The eternal securist will often insert his excuse "if he departs from the faith, that means he never had true faith to begin with". But that excuse does not explain how one can depart from or cast off something he never had. How can you depart from or cast off from New York if you have never even been there to begin with?"

 

[Elijah674]

As I posted in my prior post above "The eternal securist will often insert his excuse "if he departs from the faith, that means he never had true faith to begin with". But that excuse does not explain how one can depart from or cast off something he never had. How can you depart from or cast off from New York if you have never even been there to begin with?"

??It just shows that these false doctrine ones do not have it yet!

 

[savedbygrace57]

As I posted in my prior post above "The eternal securist will often insert his excuse "if he departs from the faith, that means he never had true faith to begin with". But that excuse does not explain how one can depart from or cast off something he never had. How can you depart from or cast off from New York if you have never even been there to begin with?"

All that is nonesense you are talking, all for whom Christ died are eternally secure !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

All that is nonesense you are talking, all for whom Christ died are eternally secure !

Prove my nonsense otherwise. How can one depart from or cast off a faith he supposedly never had?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Prove my nonsense otherwise. How can one depart from or cast off a faith he supposedly never had?

Read the thread, I have already proved your nonesense error, I am not making any special concessions for you. That lame error has been brought up many many times before, and has been delt with. You just reject Truth !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Read the thread, I have already proved your nonesense error, I am not making any special concessions for you. That lame error has been brought up many many times before, and has been delt with. You just reject Truth !

I do not need to read this whole thread for I have found error in the OP that you have yet been able to rectify and seemlingly do not care to rectify.

 

[reba]

Keep it pleasant guys

 

[Elijah674]

Keep it pleasant guys

'PLEASANT'???
2 Peter 2:19-22 Talks about the promise of 'some' ones promise of 'liberty'. O.S.A.S. does that, as does 'ONLY BELIEVE', does it not??? (those are question marks)

Anyway, here is the rest of those INSPIRED VERSES [[alone]]. Are they pleasant or do they need to be censored out of the forum?

[19] While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

---Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

I do not need to read this whole thread for I have found error in the OP that you have yet been able to rectify and seemlingly do not care to rectify.

If you do not need to read my previous comments, that is on you.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If you do not need to read my previous comments, that is on you.

As I posted in my prior post above "The eternal securist will often insert his excuse "if he departs from the faith, that means he never had true faith to begin with". But that excuse does not explain how one can depart from or cast off something he never had. How can you depart from or cast off from New York if you have never even been there to begin with?"

You have not given an explanation to this problem you have here, just avoided it only to claim I am wrong.

 

[Elijah674]

As I posted in my prior post above "The eternal securist will often insert his excuse "if he departs from the faith, that means he never had true faith to begin with". But that excuse does not explain how one can depart from or cast off something he never had. How can you depart from or cast off from New York if you have never even been there to begin with?"

You have not given an explanation to this problem you have here, just avoided it only to claim I am wrong.

There is another answer is there not? It could also mean the the parties have never been 'secure' in the first place, with their false claim. Acts 5:32
--Elijah

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is another answer is there not? It could also mean the the parties have never been 'secure' in the first place, with their false claim. Acts 5:32
--Elijah

How could they cast off faith or depart from faith if they never had faith to begin with?


It's also like in Acts 1:25 where Luke said Judas fell by transgression. If one argues Judas was never saved to begin with, then that means Judas was always fallen. So how can he fall when he was already fallen?

 

[Elijah674]

How could they cast off faith or depart from faith if they never had faith to begin with?


It's also like in Acts 1:25 where Luke said Judas fell by transgression. If one argues Judas was never saved to begin with, then that means Judas was always fallen. So how can he fall when he was already fallen?

Hey friend, that is exactly what 'i' thought that I had posted up! Heb. 6:6 + 2 Peter 2:18-22
Acts 5:32 is REQUIRED for any to be Born Again in the FIRST Place! Surrender of the 'will' 100% is required for one to even start the 'Born Again AGAPE LOVE walk in Faith'.

And then this James 2:26 faith works or it is as dead as a body without 'the spirit'.

And who of these in Heb. 6:4-5 will be 'led' further Rom. 8:14?? Not many! And why so?? Take note again after I block out your savy...

[4] For --------- for those who were once enlightened, andhave tasted of the heavenly gift, and [[were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,]]
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,...'

and the reason is that they say to themselves & Christ?? (+ post over & over what this thread [DOCUMENTS!] )... Lord, I CLAIM EVERY WORD OF VERSE 4-5!! What on earth more do I need, I,I,I,I HAVE BEEN MADE THE PARTAKER OF THE HOLY GHOST!! And I 'feel' Great! and their FAITH is that of their claim,
James 2:26 above.

---Elijah

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hey friend, that is exactly what 'i' thought that I had posted up! Heb. 6:6 + 2 Peter 2:18-22
Acts 5:32 is REQUIRED for any to be Born Again in the FIRST Place! Surrender of the 'will' 100% is required for one to even start the 'Born Again AGAPE LOVE walk in Faith'.

And then this James 2:26 faith works or it is as dead as a body without 'the spirit'.

And who of these in Heb. 6:4-5 will be 'led' further Rom. 8:14?? Not many! And why so?? Take note again after I block out your savy...

[4] For --------- for those who were once enlightened, andhave tasted of the heavenly gift, and [[were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,]]
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,...'

and the reason is that they say to themselves & Christ?? (+ post over & over what this thread [DOCUMENTS!] )... Lord, I CLAIM EVERY WORD OF VERSE 4-5!! What on earth more do I need, I,I,I,I HAVE BEEN MADE THE PARTAKER OF THE HOLY GHOST!! And I 'feel' Great! and their FAITH is that of their claim,
James 2:26 above.

---Elijah

THe issue eternal securists have with the Heb 6 passage is the word "impossible" in v4. As you show above, the Hebrew writer is clearly talking about those who are in a saved position but who fall away, v6. So much for the idea of eternal security. The reason it will be impossible to renew them is they "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame." The verbs crucify and put are in the Greek present tense-an ongoing, continuous action. Those people fell away and into a state where they ongoingly, continuously crucify Christ and ongoingly put Him to shame. Christ is the reason one repents, and if I am in a state where I ongoingly crucify and put to shame "the reason" then it would be impossible for me to repent. But if I quit crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" then I could come to repentance. In Acts 8, Simon sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Ghost. Peter told him his heart was not right in the sight of God. But Simon did not remain in that state, he asked Peter to pray for him so he could be forgiven. So it was not 'impossible' for Simon.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Ye shall abide in Him ! A Promise !


1 Jn 2:27

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is a Covenant Promise, those who God saves and gives His Spirit, which is that Anointing referred to, they shall always abide in Him !

The word's " ye shall abide in Him" in the greek is a future indicative, which means this The future:

Quote:


The future tense corresponds to the English future, and indicates the
contemplated or certain occurrence of an event which has not yet occurred.

The indicative :

Quote:


The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs
or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

And the word abide is the greek word menō and means:


to remain, abide

a) in reference to place

1) to sojourn, tarry

2) not to depart

a) to continue to be present

b) to be held, kept, continually

b) in reference to time

1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure

a) of persons, to survive, live

c) in reference to state or condition

1) to remain as one, not to become another or different

2) to wait for, await one

They shall not depart from the Truth, which is a Covenant Promise from here Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

This is A Great Sovereign Blessing unto those Christ died and brings them to the Belief of the Truth by the Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And they shall abide in that Truth forever !

 

[Stan53]

1 Jn 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
This is a Covenant Promise, those who God saves and gives His Spirit, which is that Anointing referred to, they shall always abide in Him !
The word's " ye shall abide in Him" in the Greek is a future indicative, which means this The future:

1 John 2:27; The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie; just as He has taught you, remain in Him.
This is present tense, NOT future. I don't know where you would get this idea but it sure ISN'T the context of the verse.
Received is PAST tense
Remains is PRESENT tense
Teach & Teaches is PRESENT tense
Taught is PAST tense
Remain is PRESENT tense.

And the word abide is the Greek word menō and means:
to remain, abide
a) in reference to place
1) to sojourn, tarry
2) not to depart
a) to continue to be present
b) to be held, kept, continually
b) in reference to time
1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
a) of persons, to survive, live
c) in reference to state or condition
1) to remain as one, not to become another or different
2) to wait for, await one

Yes this is the Greek word. It is the SAME word used in the beginning of the same verse. It means it is static. It means it is still there. It means it stays put.

They shall not depart from the Truth, which is a Covenant Promise from here Jer 32:40
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

In the actual context of Jer 32:40, they DID depart. Why do you assume this verse has ANY relevance to this discussion?

This is A Great Sovereign Blessing unto those Christ died and brings them to the Belief of the Truth by the Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
And they shall abide in that Truth forever !

I'm not really sure what this verse means to you or your assertion, but verse 15 is pretty clear, So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Why would Paul admonish the brothers and sisters to do this, if they WOULD abide in that truth forever, as you postulate? Could it be some further exegesis or "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", is required?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Perseverance in the Faith promised !

Jn 6:57

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. Or they shall live because of Him ! Even throughout Eternity !

So even he that eateth me, he shall live because of me ! More of what Christ means of His Flesh and Blood, His Flesh denotes His Life of obedience to God's Law in behalf of His Sheep, and His Blood denotes the shedding of His Blood to God's Law and Justice on their behalf, and they are to partake of it's blessings and benefits !

 

[Butch5]

Ye shall abide in Him ! A Promise !


1 Jn 2:27

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is a Covenant Promise, those who God saves and gives His Spirit, which is that Anointing referred to, they shall always abide in Him !

The word's " ye shall abide in Him" in the greek is a future indicative, which means this The future:




The indicative :


And the word abide is the greek word menō and means:


to remain, abide

a) in reference to place

1) to sojourn, tarry

2) not to depart

a) to continue to be present

b) to be held, kept, continually

b) in reference to time

1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure

a) of persons, to survive, live

c) in reference to state or condition

1) to remain as one, not to become another or different

2) to wait for, await one

They shall not depart from the Truth, which is a Covenant Promise from here Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

This is A Great Sovereign Blessing unto those Christ died and brings them to the Belief of the Truth by the Sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And they shall abide in that Truth forever !

You might want to do further study here. Quite a few text have Menete as a present indicative active rather than future.

 

[savedbygrace57]

butch

You might want to do further study here

I am always studying, however that does not help you understand the Truth that you reject !

 

[Butch5]

butch



I am always studying, however that does not help you understand the Truth that you reject !

Guy, you keep speaking of truth yet you've not addressed the issues that present you problems. Do you accept all of the Scriptures?