Bible Study FAITH, And the Knowledge of God's Righteousness

[ezrider]

your gps has led you off course especially trying to guess my belief. hope your find the main road again c yaaaaaaaa

I know earlier you said you only had a fourth grade education, but at that I thought you had a little common sense. My bad. Didn't know we were supposed to be "guessing" what your belief is? Who was supposed to be guessing what your belief is? Scripture says: hast thou faith? Have to thyself before God.

Whatever the doctrines of men that you hold on to and then filter your perception through, I could care less. I am not interested in the doctrines and traditions of men. I am not posting passages from devotionals or the words of some famed theologian for inspiration as some around here do. I have given you the understanding from my heart as the Lord has given it to me, and I have given many many scripture references, ALL of which have been for the most part IGNORED. Why? Because your not interested in hearing the scriptures and discussing the scriptures I have posted in the context which I have posted them in. You are not interested in the knowledge of God's righteousness. You are more interested in seeing things through the doctrines and traditions of men, and you are more interested in sin;

BUT, I BELIEVE THAT YOU LOVE THE LORD and that you have faith in Christ and the blood of the cross. Unlike some who can't seem to see beyond their own preconceptions and keeps insisting I am saying they are evil unsaved hypocrites, when I AM NOT. I have no doubt that you are saved, or else you wouldn't be here discussing Christ.

All men are saved from the original death, Christ becoming death for them. Some are called forth to the resurrection of death, and some are called forth to the resurrection of life. But the scripture also saith that it was to this end that Christ both died and rose again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But you know the scriptures, right? You know all of this, don't you?

Maybe you can explain to Jethro the difference between those who remain dead in their faith in Christ and those who are Living by the Faith of Christ? Christ is Lord and King over both the dead and the living. And as the scripture saith: who am I that I should judge another man's servant? Again, as the scriptures have made known, there are those that are considered enemies of the Gospel, but they are beloved servants of the Father. They serve a purpose according to the will of God. And even though they are an enemy of the gospel, Who AM I TO JUDGE? Seeing they too serve the will of God!

For those whom it was said they are enemies of the Gospel, yet beloved of the Father: to which resurrection do they walk under, the DEAD or the LIVING?

All men are saved from their first death through Christ. Some will be kept from the second death, if their name are written in the Lamb's book of Life. But many shall face the Father and their second death in the lake of fire. But fear not, Moses and the children of Israel saw this fire.

.

 

[smaller]

no difficulty of communications on my part. you was trying to connect me to a work based salvation ..nice try but no cigar.

That was kind of an aside to the observation in any case. I made no mention of Calvinism, but it appeared to be a tempting distraction from your end.

I tried. 2 or 3 times is enough for me. Laters.

 

[ezrider]

In hyper-grace theology, by virtue of claiming that I actually once 'loved my neighbor as myself' that automatically put me in the 'trying to justify myself' category. Meanwhile, them being honest in saying that they don't ever do that (love your neighbor as yourself) makes them the righteousness of Christ. They haven't even bothered to ask me if I'm trying to earn a declaration of righteousness from God by doing right things. Didn't even ask. They just assumed that and jumped right to the condemning part.

Perhaps the assumption is all on you Jethro. Because it pricks at a core belief of yours, you get defensive over it, and then attempt to justify yourself. You say you love your neighbor, well then I say good for you.

I too, try and love my neighbor as I love myself. But I have found out through life's experiences that my best intentions were not always received as such. I might think it loving to loan my neighbor some money or offer them some side jobs to help them through hard times, but a prideful man might just take offense at my offer, and only harden his heart towards me. So while I try as best I can to love my neighbor as I would myself, the reality is it is not always received that way, and therefore by my own intentions I have fulfilled NO LAW OF LOVE, I have only exercised my faith under the law of Liberty. The ONLY law of LOVE that I might extend toward my neighbor would be that of unmitigated MERCY, as our Lord has extended unto US. But in this too, I fall short.

So love your neighbor as yourself, that is what you are called to do. The only exception I take is when you say you FULFILL THE LAW of love your neighbor. YOU CAN NOT fulfill the LAW of Love your neighbor. To say that you fulfill the LAW of LOVE your neighbor, then YOU ARE SAYING that you are fulfilling ALL OF THE LAW. If that is not what you are trying to say, or that we are misunderstanding you, then the fix in communications is rather easy. Stop saying that you "fulfill the law" when you do not and when you can not. And simply say: I try and love my neighbor as I would myself. You don't need to mention any LAW in order to talked with a Buddhist about loving your neighbor and doing good unto others.

You do not need a Law, nor will a Law do you any good in actually getting to know your neighbors so you might know how they would like to be treated. Often times, the Law will get in your way, causing you to judge your neighbor because of some perceived sin. Then they see them through that sin, and because of that sin, they justify their own interaction with that neighbor. Kind of like the gays and the Boy Scouts. They perfectly justified their rejection of the gays by the holding up the Law and holding up the Bible, exercising their faith in the law. But what saith the Faith of Christ in this matter?



.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The only exception I take is when you say you FULFILL THE LAW of love your neighbor. YOU CAN NOT fulfill the LAW of Love your neighbor. To say that you fulfill the LAW of LOVE your neighbor, then YOU ARE SAYING that you are fulfilling ALL OF THE LAW. If that is not what you are trying to say, or that we are misunderstanding you, then the fix in communications is rather easy.

You're right. It's an easy fix:
"...through love serve one another. 14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” (Galatians 5:13-14 NASB capitals and italics in original, bold and underline mine)

Perhaps the assumption is all on you Jethro. Because it pricks at a core belief of yours, you get defensive over it

No, I'm not assuming anything.
You said I 'keep' the law in order to be justified by the law. Even after I told you I don't.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How so? Splain yourself. If a person walking by faith under Grace has unconfessed sin, then does the wrath of God abide on them?

How does a person walking by faith have unconfessed sin?
Walking by faith would mean that person is walking by the Spirit and is not sinning in the flesh:

"...walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16 NASB)

It's when we don't walk by faith that we have sin.

 

[ezrider]

How does a person walking by faith have unconfessed sin?
Walking by faith would mean that person is walking by the Spirit and is not sinning in the flesh:

"...walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16 NASB)

It's when we don't walk by faith that we have sin.

You did not answer the question I asked of you. It is a simple yes or no answer. So PLEASE Answer the question I ASKED of YOU.

If a person walking by faith under Grace has unconfessed sin, DOES THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDE ON THEM?

What is your answer? Yes or No?

 

[ezra]

If a person walking by faith under Grace has unconfessed sin, DOES THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDE ON THEM?

it would depend on what you consider the wrath of God. james says to him who knows to do God and dont is a sin . un confessed sin will bring chastisement . how many times have you known to do good and did not do it... God does not have a big bolt of lightning waiting to turn you into burnt toast over un confessed sin . how ever not confessing it can cause it to grow . then his wrath in the line of a trip to His wood shed can seem like wrath. will it send you or me to hell? i am not the Judge Jesus is. my question would be why a person walking by faith under Grace . would want unconfessed sin. there is sin of commission and sin of omission .

 

[ezrider]

No, I'm not assuming anything.
You said I 'keep' the law in order to be justified by the law. Even after I told you I don't.

Yes, you have told us so. You, Jethro, do not keep the law in order to be justified by the law.

Great. We can agree on that then. But then again, that is not what I have said, even after I have told you so repeatedly. It's not how we are justified by the law and made righteous through its work. No indeed. Rather, it is about how WE USE THE LAW to JUSTIFY OUR OWN ACTIONS, not how we are justified by the law.

Are you opposed to gay marriage? Yes or No? And Why?
.

 

[ezrider]

my question would be why a person walking by faith under Grace . would want unconfessed sin. there is sin of commission and sin of omission .

My question is why would a person walking by faith under Grace continue to dwell upon sin, worrying that they must not miss any unconfessed sins, or they will be outside of God's grace. This to me is the bondage of the law. I know of members on this very forum who worry about unconfessed sin daily. Who look for sin continually in order to confess it so they can wash it in the blood and become clean again. Is this a behavior that demonstrates an obedience to faith in Christ? Or is this the behavior of someone who believes in Jesus, but remains trapped under the law of sin and death?
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You did not answer the question I asked of you. It is a simple yes or no answer. So PLEASE Answer the question I ASKED of YOU.

If a person walking by faith under Grace has unconfessed sin, DOES THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDE ON THEM?

What is your answer? Yes or No?

No, it is not a simple yes or no question. It's an ambiguous question. Walking by faith, and unconfessed, unrepentant sin are two mutually exclusive things. The person with unrepentant, unconfessed sin is not walking by faith in God's grace of forgiveness. The place of God's grace is God's forgiveness. If a person chooses to live outside of God's forgiveness and instead live in unrepentant sin they are choosing to live outside of God's grace.

If a person chooses to not walk according to the Spirit by faith and continues without confession/repentance in the sinful life that Christ's sacrifice set them free from, they have nothing left to look forward to except the wrath of God:

"...if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins (through which to be forgiven), 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES." (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB bold in original, parenthesis mine)

They are trampling on the blood that sanctified them instead of using it to be forgiven of their sin:

"28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:28-29 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

it is about how WE USE THE LAW to JUSTIFY OUR OWN ACTIONS, not how we are justified by the law.

There would only be a problem with using the law to justify our own actions if those actions are sinful.

Are you opposed to gay marriage? Yes or No? And Why?

Of course I'm opposed to it, and for this reason:

"do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know of members on this very forum who worry about unconfessed sin daily. Who look for sin continually in order to confess it so they can wash it in the blood and become clean again.

They don't have to hunt for it. It will find them. Whether in their daily Bible reading, or when the consequences of that sin arrive, they will be made aware of any unconfessed sin they may have in their lives. And God will be at the ready, instantly available to repair the sinning saint and bring them ever closer to the image of Christ the Father is working in them.

Is this a behavior that demonstrates an obedience to faith in Christ? Or is this the behavior of someone who believes in Jesus, but remains trapped under the law of sin and death?

For this person to care about sin and seek God's forgiveness for their sin is by definition faith in Christ. But surely, anyone who's on an irrational hunt for hidden sin should chill out and just let the Spirit of God bring the truth out.

In contrast, the definition of being 'under the law' includes...
1) you are trying to be justified by keeping the law.
2) you are condemned by the law because you remain guilty in regard to it's requirements.
3) you remain in bondage to sin and the law's power to arouse it in you because you're not born again.
4) ...I know there's a fourth one, but it escapes me at the moment.

So, you can see that it is only the NOT born again person who remains 'under the law'. All born again people have been set free from the bondage of the law.

 

[ezra]

My question is why would a person walking by faith under Grace continue to dwell upon sin, worrying that they must not miss any unconfessed sins, or they will be outside of God's grace. This to me is the bondage of the law. I know of members on this very forum who worry about unconfessed sin daily. Who look for sin continually in order to confess it so they can wash it in the blood and become clean again. Is this a behavior that demonstrates an obedience to faith in Christ? Or is this the behavior of someone who believes in Jesus, but remains trapped under the law of sin and death?
.

i can only speak for me i don't dwell upon sin .. but sin is there we do become a new creation in Christ old things gone all things become new . then there is 2nd Corinthians 5:21 . see the Bible tells us to guard against it. why would john been instructed by the Holy Spirit to write 1 john 1:9 . then we are told to guard our heart.. put on the whole Armour of GOD .the word also tells us to sin not---My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1) be ye angry and sin not.... CAN YOU ?
to confess our sins is Not for God but for us. yes there are those who are held captive by sin and death .they either A. dont know how to be set free or B .just really do not want to.
this is where i split the difference on o s a s a person wanting to live in bondage not making any effort to repent . which the Bible does teach...personally i have doubts of ever being born again ..
in closing might i add i agree with jethro

So, you can see that it is only the NOT born again person who remains 'under the law'. All born again people have been set free from the bondage of the law.

see i don't worry about sin but i do have to guard against it.. i know the old man that still likes to lurk around.. yes this guy use to love to cuss use God name in vain .i could tell every dirty joke. many things i use to love to do. that i will not list.
to be strong in the Lord and power of his might..take practice .like our military only the Holy Spirit is our drill sergeant. but he does not yell at us but speaks to us in a still small voice .pricking our conscience when we do sin and yes we will

 

[ezrider]

No, it is not a simple yes or no question. It's an ambiguous question.

The question was not ambiguous. It was very straight forward. The problem is I asked you to answer yes or no. If a believer in Christ has unrepentant sin, does the wrath of God abide on them? But you couldn't answer the question yeah or nay, you had to try and qualify the question I asked of you so you could hide behind the scriptures rather than answer the very simple question. Christ said let your communications be yeah yeah and nay nay. Why can't you do that.

If a believer in Jesus Christ has unknown unrepentant sin, does the wrath of God abide on them. Yes or No?

 

[ezrider]

If a person chooses to live outside of God's forgiveness and instead live in unrepentant sin they are choosing to live outside of God's grace.

If a person chooses to walk outside of God's Grace, then they have chosen to walk under the law. When a person falls away, they have fallen away from the Faith once delivered to them back to the elements of the Law.

 

[ezrider]

f a person chooses to not walk according to the Spirit by faith and continues without confession/repentance in the sinful life that Christ's sacrifice set them free from, they have nothing left to look forward to except the wrath of God:

That which pertains to the flesh is of the flesh, and that which pertains to the spirit is of the Spirit. Repentance from sin belongs to the flesh. If I have been set free, then I am free indeed. Those who have not been set free are those to whom look forward to the expectation of the wrath of God. But if I have been set free from repentance unto dead works, then I am free to look forward to the glory and righteousness of Christ being manifest in my flesh.

You see Jethro, I understand from the scriptures that we have this treasure in these earthen vessels, these vile, corrupt flesh bodies, so that the power and glory may be of God, and not of ourselves.

 

[ezrider]

They are trampling on the blood that sanctified them instead of using it to be forgiven of their sin:

The only ones who trample on the blood that sanctified them are those who continue to run back to stand before the cross to to cover their sins anew, because they don't believe by Faith that the ONE TIME sacrifice was enough, so they have to call upon it over and over again. seeing the crucify Christ to themselves afresh, and do put him to open shame.

 

[ezrider]

There would only be a problem with using the law to justify our own actions if those actions are sinful.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Do you suppose that the people to whom Jesus says depart from me, do you think their boast was in getting away with sin? No, These people thought they could justify themselves with their own works, BY CLAIMING them in Jesus' name. These were wonderful works, these were not evil works, and yet he says depart from me, for I never knew you.

Perhaps they did all of these wonderful works by CLAIMING THEM IN JESUS' NAME, but the kept the glory and the righteousness for themselves?

 

[ezrider]

Of course I'm opposed to it, and for this reason:

"do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 NASB)

So you justify your opposition to it because of the law. That's ok.

But you you realize that the scripture you quoted isn't pointing out particular sins to say that they shall not inherit the kingdom of God. These are fruits and evidence of things that pertain to the flesh. Don't you know the FLESH and BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT the kingdom of God. That which pertains to the flesh is of the flesh, and that which is of the spirit is of the Spirit. Flesh and BLOOD can not inherit the kingdom because the kingdom is of the Spirit.

1 Corinthianss 15:45-50
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The blood pertains to the flesh, which can not inherit the kingdom, but the Spirit hath set me free from the law and that I might walk after the things of the Spirit rather than the things that pertain to the flesh.
.

 

[ezrider]

I believe these hyper-grace doctrines are the final end-time doctrines that are leading the great falling away prophesied before the second appearing of Christ. Darkness is now light. Light is now darkness Bitter is now sweet. Sweet is now bitter, and so on.

Have you not read how the world would be flipped upside down? Have the the mountains shall be made low and the exalted brought down? Have you not heard that the first shall be made last, and the last first? Have you not heard or tasted for yourself? Go on, eat up the book, for in thy mouth it shall be sweet as honey, but in the belly it shall be bitter?
.