Bible Study Familiar Spirits

[Northman]

No, it's not my opinion, but what I believe.

So for you it's belief and for others it's opinion?

Scripture is not going to teach you what a familar spirit is. That you have to look up on your own as I have.

This is probably at the very heart of the problem. I can tell you have looked them up on your own. I can tell you that most of what you have said about them is fantasy. It's not a good thing to do your own searches on this sort of thing then form a belief about them then judge the Bible according to that belief. I say this because if you truly knew about them you would know that nobody ever really sees them. Most people that have them don't know they do, they think they have "powers" or are "special". Familiar spirits act as special types of glasses or hearing aids that you can't see that enable you to see things not regularly seen. They are attached and don't "come up" out of some spiritual realm. They DO put you in contact with those of much greater station than themselves.

Yes I have experience with the forces of darkness. Yes I live in a culture with a family half in it where the people that these familiar spirits are attached to are pillars of the community because most "medicine men" mean well. Yes I'm aware that they think they have control over what they do, right up to the point they don't. Those spirits obey only one master, and it isn't a human. As a believer I can recognize what is going on, but they have a different "belief". They believe the spirits are there for the good of their people.

Bottom line is that to have this idea you have about what familiar spirits are or do or are capable of doing and having that preside as judgement over what is going on with Saul is not a position a teacher should put themselves in.

Everything about this entire idea has been falling away as either a superstition or an untruth ie God not working through something evil or there being a repeat of prophecy.

How many more holes do there have to be before what the Bible actually says is just true? Do you think there is any other place in the Bible where it says one thing and it really just truthfully isn't what it stated, like you are trying to show is happening here?

 

[ezra]

This is probably at the very heart of the problem. I can tell you have looked them up on your own. I can tell you that most of what you have said about them is fantasy. It's not a good thing to do your own searches on this sort of thing then form a belief about them then judge the Bible according to that belief. I say this because if you truly knew about them you would know that nobody ever really sees them. Most people that have them don't know they do, they think they have "powers" or are "special". Familiar spirits act as special types of glasses or hearing aids that you can't see that enable you to see things not regularly seen. They are attached and don't "come up" out of some spiritual realm. They DO put you in contact with those of much greater station than themselves.

it really doesnt matter if you agree with 4 his glory or me or anyone else . i am not going to agree with the above quote you posted .
i ask you take a close look at this
Familiar spirit
Sorcerers or necormancers, who professed to call up the dead to answer questions, were said to have a "familiar spirit" ( Deuteronomy 18:11 ; 2 Kings 21:6 ; 2 Chr 33:6 ; Leviticus 19:31 ; 20:6 ; Isaiah 8:19 ; 29:4 ). Such a person was called by the Hebrews an 'ob , which properly means a leathern bottle; for sorcerers were regarded as vessels containing the inspiring demon. This Hebrew word was equivalent to the pytho of the Greeks, and was used to denote both the person and the spirit which possessed him ( Leviticus 20:27 ; 1 Samuel 28:8 ; Compare Acts 16:16 ). The word "familiar" is from the Latin familiaris, meaning a "household servant," and was intended to express the idea that sorcerers had spirits as their servants ready to obey their commands. do you agree with this material? could it be you that is having there own interpretation ? i have very serious doubts this spirit was from a human forum.. God does NOT use sorcery this was nothing more than a Séance
A séance or seance is an attempt to communicate with spirits. The word "séance" comes from the French word for "session", from the Old French seoir, "to sit". In French, the word's meaning is quite general: one may, for example, speak of "une séance de cinéma". saul was in rebellion from not listening to the LORD he should ahve consulted another prophet
Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[Northman]

Sorcerers or necormancers, who professed to call up the dead to answer questions, were said to have a "familiar spirit" ( Deuteronomy 18:11 ; 2 Kings 21:6 ; 2 Chr 33:6 ; Leviticus 19:31 ; 20:6 ; Isaiah 8:19 ; 29:4 ). Such a person was called by the Hebrews an 'ob , which properly means a leathern bottle; for sorcerers were regarded as vessels containing the inspiring demon. This Hebrew word was equivalent to the pytho of the Greeks, and was used to denote both the person and the spirit which possessed him ( Leviticus 20:27 ; 1 Samuel 28:8 ; Compare Acts 16:16 ).

This is correct. An accurate assessment and definition.

The word "familiar" is from the Latin familiaris, meaning a "household servant," and was intended to express the idea that sorcerers had spirits as their servants ready to obey their commands. do you agree with this material? could it be you that is having there own interpretation ?

This is added. It is not part of the Hebrew definition of the word. The latin "familiaris" and hebrew "ob" do not mean the same thing. So if someone is trying to bind it all together where they all mean the same thing in relation to a spirit that obeys a human, then no I do not agree in the slightest. Evil spirits have one master. There isn't one line of scripture that shows evil spirits obeying people.

I would like to remind you that I am but just one of many who says there is no interpretation of this text required at all, that everything went exactly how it said it did. No tricks.

God does NOT use sorcery this was nothing more than a Séance
A séance or seance is an attempt to communicate with spirits. The word "séance" comes from the French word for "session", from the Old French seoir, "to sit". In French, the word's meaning is quite general: one may, for example, speak of "une séance de cinéma". saul was in rebellion from not listening to the LORD he should ahve consulted another prophet

Before they started using the word "seance" they just called it necromancy, or communication with the dead. Lots of cultures call it lots of different things. Why you keep going on about this specific part of evil(sorcery) as something God absolutely won't try and reach someone through is beyond me. Scripture has already been given about His use of evil up to and including the devil himself. Will someone at least answer the question as to why they think this one single area is so taboo for God when others are not? I've heard a few people say "He won't use that" but nobody will tell me why, other than the one explanation which was that God doesn't work through evil, which has already been dealt with.

Seriously, think about it. Satan dealing with Job. The prime sorcerer, given power over the weather by God, killing Job's kids with it. But here, when it comes to Saul and Samuel, then it's time to hit the brakes? What Gives?

None of this has anything to do with the fact that the Bible says Saul had a conversation with Samuel. To take the Bible and turn it into a novel where the perspective of one person sets the stage for what's going on, in this case where since the faulted perspective of Saul was faulted, now the entire thing is and everywhere the Bible says Samuel in this passage it is now not Samuel and an instead evil spirit for those given enough insight to see, is a horrible thing to do. That type insight is actually arrogance. It teaches that you can go anywhere in the scriptures where it says something happened and you(not just you but anyone) can just say "naw, it went like how I say, not how the scripture reads".

it really doesnt matter if you agree with 4 his glory or me or anyone else .

I care about the body, that's why what is getting said is getting said.

 

[for_his_glory]

So for you it's belief and for others it's opinion?


This is probably at the very heart of the problem. I can tell you have looked them up on your own. I can tell you that most of what you have said about them is fantasy. It's not a good thing to do your own searches on this sort of thing then form a belief about them then judge the Bible according to that belief. I say this because if you truly knew about them you would know that nobody ever really sees them. Most people that have them don't know they do, they think they have "powers" or are "special". Familiar spirits act as special types of glasses or hearing aids that you can't see that enable you to see things not regularly seen. They are attached and don't "come up" out of some spiritual realm. They DO put you in contact with those of much greater station than themselves.

Yes I have experience with the forces of darkness. Yes I live in a culture with a family half in it where the people that these familiar spirits are attached to are pillars of the community because most "medicine men" mean well. Yes I'm aware that they think they have control over what they do, right up to the point they don't. Those spirits obey only one master, and it isn't a human. As a believer I can recognize what is going on, but they have a different "belief". They believe the spirits are there for the good of their people.

Bottom line is that to have this idea you have about what familiar spirits are or do or are capable of doing and having that preside as judgement over what is going on with Saul is not a position a teacher should put themselves in.

Everything about this entire idea has been falling away as either a superstition or an untruth ie God not working through something evil or there being a repeat of prophecy.

How many more holes do there have to be before what the Bible actually says is just true? Do you think there is any other place in the Bible where it says one thing and it really just truthfully isn't what it stated, like you are trying to show is happening here?

Like I said, you believe as you will and I the same. We are not going to see eye to eye on this so it's time to move past our conversation.

God bless you and have a great day.

 

[for_his_glory]

Northman and ezrider

Please read Leviticus 19:31; 20:6, 27; Deuteronomy 18:9-14; 2 Kings 21:6; 2 Chronicles 33:6; Isaiah 8:19; 24:4 as this is about familar spirits which are an abomination to God as well as mediums and sorcerers. It's all satanic and God is not going to work through something that is an abomination to Him and something He commanded to be killed for having anything to do with it.

The term "familar spirit" comes from the Hebrew word owb meaning a leather bottle, necromancer, one who has a familar spirit. Strong's #178. Look up Agathion.

 

[ezrider]

Northman and ezrider

Please read Leviticus 19:31; 20:6, 27; Deuteronomy 18:9-14; 2 Kings 21:6; 2 Chronicles 33:6; Isaiah 8:19; 24:4 as this is about familar spirits which are an abomination to God as well as mediums and sorcerers. It's all satanic and God is not going to work through something that is an abomination to Him and something He commanded to be killed for having anything to do with it.

The term "familar spirit" comes from the Hebrew word owb meaning a leather bottle, necromancer, one who has a familar spirit. Strong's #178. Look up Agathion.

So it is for you to declare what is an abomination to God? Have you been made the Judge of all things Satanic? The scripture instructs me to not bring railing accusations against Satan. It's an instruction worth noting.

The scripture instructs us avoid mediums. The scripture also instructs us avoid menstruating women; Must we still put those unclean evil women outside the camp?

As far as necromancers: Do you not call upon him who was dead?

 

[Northman]

Please read Leviticus 19:31; 20:6, 27; Deuteronomy 18:9-14; 2 Kings 21:6; 2 Chronicles 33:6; Isaiah 8:19; 24:4 as this is about familar spirits which are an abomination to God as well as mediums and sorcerers. It's all satanic and God is not going to work through something that is an abomination to Him and something He commanded to be killed for having anything to do with it.

None of those verses say God does not use evil. He creates it(Isaiah 45:7) and uses it (1 Samuel 16:14). Murder carries a death sentence(Leviticus 24:17) and haughty eyes are an abomination(Proverbs 6: 16-19). God has worked through and raised up people who had a lust for killing and were extremely arrogant (Habakkuk 1:5-11). God sent a lying spirit to do a false prophecy(1 Kings 22:22). False prophecy falls in the category of divination(Jeremiah 14:14), which is entirely witchcraft.

The term "familar spirit" comes from the Hebrew word owb meaning a leather bottle, necromancer, one who has a familar spirit. Strong's #178. Look up Agathion.

This isn't contested. The part added on is. There is nothing in this quote of the definition that describes them as having to obey anyone or taking the form of an animal or human or anything like that. You won't find that anywhere but lore and other popular stories.

 

[Northman]

Like I said, you believe as you will and I the same. We are not going to see eye to eye on this so it's time to move past our conversation.

God bless you and have a great day.

You are going to have to take your pick. Talk to me or don't. Whichever you choose, dear lady.

 

[ezra]

So it is for you to declare what is an abomination to God? Have you been made the Judge of all things Satanic? The scripture instructs me to not bring railing accusations against Satan. It's an instruction worth noting.

The scripture instructs us avoid mediums. The scripture also instructs us avoid menstruating women; Must we still put those unclean evil women outside the camp?

As far as necromancers: Do you not call upon him who was dead?

so you are saying the o.t is null and void?

 

[for_his_glory]

So it is for you to declare what is an abomination to God? Have you been made the Judge of all things Satanic? The scripture instructs me to not bring railing accusations against Satan. It's an instruction worth noting.

The scripture instructs us avoid mediums. The scripture also instructs us avoid menstruating women; Must we still put those unclean evil women outside the camp?

As far as necromancers: Do you not call upon him who was dead?

If God says it is an abomination then I will believe Him. Did you not read all the scriptures where He said it was and we are to not mess with such things.

 

[ezrider]

so you are saying the o.t is null and void?

Whatever would fill your head with that kind of nonsense? Tell me, when Adam was instructed not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, did that then make the tree of knowledge null and void?

 

[ezrider]

If God says it is an abomination then I will believe Him. Did you not read all the scriptures where He said it was and we are to not mess with such things.

40 days. Jonah believed God too! 40 days, is this not the word sent? Yet poor Jonah, for he didn't believe that God had repented of the evil he was going to do, and determined himself to sit and watch and wait.

 

[for_his_glory]

None of those verses say God does not use evil. He creates it(Isaiah 45:7) and uses it (1 Samuel 16:14). Murder carries a death sentence(Leviticus 24:17) and haughty eyes are an abomination(Proverbs 6: 16-19). God has worked through and raised up people who had a lust for killing and were extremely arrogant (Habakkuk 1:5-11). God sent a lying spirit to do a false prophecy(1 Kings 22:22). False prophecy falls in the category of divination(Jeremiah 14:14), which is entirely witchcraft.


This isn't contested. The part added on is. There is nothing in this quote of the definition that describes them as having to obey anyone or taking the form of an animal or human or anything like that. You won't find that anywhere but lore and other popular stories.

I know God can use evil for that which He wants to accomplish, but as far as Him creating evil this is true as He created Satan who is a spirit being that can take on many forms. Satan works through Mediums and sorcerers as these familar spirits are his demons he commands.

As far as what a familar spirit is all I can go by is what scripture says, the definition in Smith's Bible Dictionary and Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hebrew 3049. They are all control by Satan.

 

[for_his_glory]

40 days. Jonah believed God too! 40 days, is this not the word sent? Yet poor Jonah, for he didn't believe that God had repented of the evil he was going to do, and determined himself to sit and watch and wait.

What does Jonah have to do with those scriptures where God said these are abominations or do you believe those scriptures to be null and void. God said it, not me.

 

[ezrider]

What does Jonah have to do with those scriptures where God said these are abominations or do you believe those scriptures to be null and void. God said it, not me.

Why that's what Jonah said. Perhaps you should pray about it.


Necromancy is an abomination; why do then you call upon him who was dead?

 

[for_his_glory]

Why that's what Jonah said. Perhaps you should pray about it.


Necromancy is an abomination; why do then you call upon him who was dead?

I'm not going to get into a discussion about Jonah as it has nothing to do with this thread. I know necromancy is an abomination to God so why would I want to call up someone who was dead. The only one I call on is Christ Jesus who died and God raised Him up and now sits at God's right hand of God making intercession for us.

 

[ezrider]

I'm not going to get into a discussion about Jonah as it has nothing to do with this thread.

Are you so narrowly focused that you can't grasp a lesson about Jonah and apply to the comment of yours I replied to? You talk of sin and abominations, etc... Do you know Salvation?

I know necromancy is an abomination to God so why would I want to call up someone who was dead. The only one I call on is Christ Jesus who died and God raised Him up and now sits at God's right hand of God making intercession for us.

Sounds to me like your saying you call upon Him who was dead to become a medium for you to speak to God.

 

[for_his_glory]

Are you so narrowly focused that you can't grasp a lesson about Jonah and apply to the comment of yours I replied to? You talk of sin and abominations, etc... Do you know Salvation?





Sounds to me like your saying you call upon Him who was dead to become a medium for you to speak to God.

I know about Jonah, but still is not relevant to the OP. What Spiritually born again child of God would not know what salvation means.

Was is a past tense verb like that of Christ who was dead, but now alive again and sits at thr right hand of the Father as our mediator/intercessor before the Father and it is He that I call upon within my personal relationship with Him. Do you not believe John 14:6; Romans 8:34.

 

[ezrider]

I know about Jonah, but still is not relevant to the OP. What Spiritually born again child of God would not know what salvation means.

If you know what salvation means, then why do you continue to look after sin and talk of abominations?

Was is a past tense verb like that of Christ who was dead, but now alive again and sits at thr right hand of the Father as our mediator/intercessor before the Father and it is He that I call upon within my personal relationship with Him. Do you not believe John 14:6; Romans 8:34.

I find your comment telling. You don't have a relationship with the Father? Why do you continue to need a medium, mediator, intercessor to talk to the Father for you? If you still need a mediator, then by your own words I hear you saying that you do not have the Father. He who has the son has the Father. Do you not believe John 14:23?

1 John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


If you continue to need a medium, intercessor to speak to the Lord, then could you say you have the Father's name written upon your forehead (Rev 14:1)?

 

[for_his_glory]

If you know what salvation means, then why do you continue to look after sin and talk of abominations?




I find your comment telling. You don't have a relationship with the Father? Why do you continue to need a medium, mediator, intercessor to talk to the Father for you? If you still need a mediator, then by your own words I hear you saying that you do not have the Father. He who has the son has the Father. Do you not believe John 14:23?

1 John 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


If you continue to need a medium, intercessor to speak to the Lord, then could you say you have the Father's name written upon your forehead (Rev 14:1)?

I talk about sin and abominations per what God says about it so to draw others to that of what things God hates that we are to abstain from being involved in. How does one hear if they are not told.

Who are you to judge whether I have a relationship with Christ. Why do you not believe John 14:6; Romans 8:34? Jesus said He is our mediator before the Father, not our medium.

Our fellowship with the Father is through our relationship with Christ, John 14:6.

Per Rev 14:1 The Lamb represents Jesus who stands on the symbolic mount Sion in the heavenly Jerusalem meaning where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell which is called the heaven of heavens, Hebrews 12:22-24; Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16. The hundred and forty four thousand that John sees standing with Jesus is not a literal numbering, but symbolic of those of Gods established covenant with faithful Abraham up through a thousand generations, Deuteronomy 7:9; Galatians 3:6, 7; 3:28, 29. These are they of great faith that have never allowed them selves to fall to temptations of the world. To the Jew first and then the Gentile who have gone on before us as together with them all who are alive or have died before the Lords return makes up the complete body of Christ, Ephesians 5:25-27.