H
Hitch
Guest
If Jesus didnt put it there why should I ?
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H
Hitch
Guest
Please explain why the writer uses the past tense.
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
A
Alabaster
Guest
He did put it there as author of the word of God, and the Revelator to John at Patmos.
What are you? A red-letter only person?
Shilohsfoal
Member
The writer is making it clear to the hebrews there is another Jerusalem besides the one they already knew.That they have come unto Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.
Hebrews 12;24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,and to the blood of sprinkling,that speaketh better things tan that of Abel.
Your not going to claim they ascended into the heavens and met Jesus are you?Past tense.
H
Hitch
Guest
Why didnt you mention the city?
Is there something in this passage you dont care for ?
Please explain why the writer uses the past tense.
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
You dont really think a giant city is going to float our of the sky ,do you?
H
Hitch
Guest
I suggest you perouse the OP before you put your foot in your mouth again.
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A
Alabaster
Guest
Everything Jesus says is true. I happen to believe the entire volume of the Book.
He wants you to connect the dots. Why don't you do that?
Put down the milk...'meat-eaters' get it.
H
Hitch
Guest
LOL You already claimed the quote from Jesus didnt match the rest of scripture , make up your mind
LOL Wow I've never heard the 'real christians' agree with me bit before.
Originally Posted by Alabaster
He did put it there as author of the word of God, and the Revelator to John at Patmos.
What are you? A red-letter only person?
I suggest you perouse the OP before you put your foot in your mouth again.
Well ?
A
Alabaster
Guest
Jesus is the Word of God.
He teaches of the physical Kingdom based in Jerusalem, from the OT to the NT.
Well, looks like you have fallen prey to a runaway poor doctrine.
H
Hitch
Guest
so you keep saying and I keep asking for scriptures. From jesus or the apostles teaching a temporal kingdom , but it seems you havent located one yet.
Actually you whined
And I referred you to the OP in which all quotes are apostolic.
None of which you have countered by the way. Too meaty for you.
So exactly how many different kingdoms are there ? How many were prophecied ? Why did Jesus say their time is fulfilled if he was not referencing a propehcy?
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H
Hitch
Guest
Here it is waiting for a learned line by line destruction , go ahead I'll be quivering in the corner.
A
Alabaster
Guest
It's a great spiritual application, a parallel theme, but it isn't what the prophecy teaches in actuality. There will be a period of reigning for Jesus that starts immediately after He returns to earth with His Bride.
H
Hitch
Guest
Wow look at all those scriptures LOL meaty very meaty.
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watchman F
Member
What is ridiculous is that the two of you are arguing back and forth, and neither one of you have a clue.
However you are correct in the fact that the first resurrection is the resurrection of the just, but the resurrection of the just occurs at the return of Christ not 7yrs prior as you state. Revelation 20 proves this as it includes those martyred during the Tribulation. This CANNOT be a pretrib event.
H
Hitch
Guest
Since I havent a clue it should be child's play for you to dismantle my OP line by line with overwheming scriptural evidences.
Back up your posturing with some substance.
H
Hitch
Guest
Sorry for the length but ol' Mat says it much better than I;
Spiritual regeneration is described in the NT as coming back from the dead from Paul's letters to the Gospels;
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Henry:
First, A resurrection that now is (v. 29), a resurrection from the death of sin to the life of righteousness, by the power of Christ's grace. The hour is coming, and now is. It is a resurrection begun already, and further to be carried on, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God. This is plainly distinguished from that in v. 28, which speaks of the resurrection at the end of time. This says nothing, as that does, of the dead in their graces, and of all of them, and their coming forth. Now, 1. Some think this was fulfilled in those whom he miraculously raised to life, Jairus's daughter, the widow's son, and Lazarus; and it is observable that all whom Christ raised were spoken to, as, Damsel, arise; Young man, arise; Lazarus, come forth; whereas those raised under the Old Testament were raised, not by a word, but other applications, 1 Kings xvii. 21; 2 Kings iv. 34; xiii. 21. Some understand it of those saints that rose with Christ; but we do not read of the voice of the Son of God calling them. But, 2. I rather understand it of the power of the doctrine of Christ, for the recovering and quickening of those that were dead in trespasses and sins, Eph. ii. 1. The hour was coming when dead souls should be made alive by the preaching of the gospel, and a spirit of life from God accompanying it: nay, it then was, while Christ was upon earth. It may refer especially to the calling of the Gentiles, which is said to be as life from the dead, and, some think, was prefigured by Ezekiel's vision (ch. xxxvii. 1), and foretold, Isa. xxvi. 19. Thy dead men shall live. But it is to be applied to all the wonderful success of the gospel, among both Jews and Gentiles; an hour which still is, and is still coming, till all the elect be effectually called. Note, (1.) Sinners are spiritually dead, destitute of spiritual life, sense, strength, and motion, dead to God, miserable, but neither sensible of their misery nor able to help themselves out of it. (2.) The conversion of a soul to God is its resurrection from death to life; then it begins to live when it begins to live to God, to breathe after him, and move towards him. (3.) It is by the voice of the Son of God that souls are raised to spiritual life; it is wrought by his power, and that power conveyed and communicated by his word: The dead shall hear, shall be made to hear, to understand, receive, and believe, the voice of the Son of God, to hear it as his voice; then the Spirit by it gives life, otherwise the letter kills. (4.) The voice of Christ must be heard by us, that we may live by it. They that hear, and attend to what they hear, shall live. Hear and your soul shall live, Isa. lv. 3.
Jesus tact was to get right in the face of the persecutors; First he proves who he is by the healing. Follows that by claiming equality with God and tops it all off by further claiming to own ultimate judgement, having the power of eternal life and death. I doubt that is what they expected him to say heh heh.
In the same conversation Jesus goes on to claim;
Henry;
Spiritual regeneration is described in the NT as coming back from the dead from Paul's letters to the Gospels;
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Henry:
First, A resurrection that now is (v. 29), a resurrection from the death of sin to the life of righteousness, by the power of Christ's grace. The hour is coming, and now is. It is a resurrection begun already, and further to be carried on, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God. This is plainly distinguished from that in v. 28, which speaks of the resurrection at the end of time. This says nothing, as that does, of the dead in their graces, and of all of them, and their coming forth. Now, 1. Some think this was fulfilled in those whom he miraculously raised to life, Jairus's daughter, the widow's son, and Lazarus; and it is observable that all whom Christ raised were spoken to, as, Damsel, arise; Young man, arise; Lazarus, come forth; whereas those raised under the Old Testament were raised, not by a word, but other applications, 1 Kings xvii. 21; 2 Kings iv. 34; xiii. 21. Some understand it of those saints that rose with Christ; but we do not read of the voice of the Son of God calling them. But, 2. I rather understand it of the power of the doctrine of Christ, for the recovering and quickening of those that were dead in trespasses and sins, Eph. ii. 1. The hour was coming when dead souls should be made alive by the preaching of the gospel, and a spirit of life from God accompanying it: nay, it then was, while Christ was upon earth. It may refer especially to the calling of the Gentiles, which is said to be as life from the dead, and, some think, was prefigured by Ezekiel's vision (ch. xxxvii. 1), and foretold, Isa. xxvi. 19. Thy dead men shall live. But it is to be applied to all the wonderful success of the gospel, among both Jews and Gentiles; an hour which still is, and is still coming, till all the elect be effectually called. Note, (1.) Sinners are spiritually dead, destitute of spiritual life, sense, strength, and motion, dead to God, miserable, but neither sensible of their misery nor able to help themselves out of it. (2.) The conversion of a soul to God is its resurrection from death to life; then it begins to live when it begins to live to God, to breathe after him, and move towards him. (3.) It is by the voice of the Son of God that souls are raised to spiritual life; it is wrought by his power, and that power conveyed and communicated by his word: The dead shall hear, shall be made to hear, to understand, receive, and believe, the voice of the Son of God, to hear it as his voice; then the Spirit by it gives life, otherwise the letter kills. (4.) The voice of Christ must be heard by us, that we may live by it. They that hear, and attend to what they hear, shall live. Hear and your soul shall live, Isa. lv. 3.
Jesus tact was to get right in the face of the persecutors; First he proves who he is by the healing. Follows that by claiming equality with God and tops it all off by further claiming to own ultimate judgement, having the power of eternal life and death. I doubt that is what they expected him to say heh heh.
In the same conversation Jesus goes on to claim;
.
Henry;
H
Hitch
Guest
Henry on John 5
Secondly, A resurrection yet to come; this is spoken of, v. 28, 29, introduced with, "Marvel not at this, which I have said of the first resurrection, do not reject it as incredible and absurd, for at the end of time you shall all see a more sensible and amazing proof of the power and authority of the Son of man." As his own resurrection was reserved to be the final and concluding proof of his personal commission, so the resurrection of all men is reserved to be a like proof of his commission to be executed by his spirit. Now observe here,
a. When this resurrection shall be: The hour is coming; it is fixed to an hour, so very punctual is this great appointment. The judgment is not adjourned sine die--to some time not yet pitched upon; no, he hath appointed a day. The hour is coming. (a.) It is not yet come, it is not the hour spoken of at v. 25, that is coming, and now is. Those erred dangerously who said that the resurrection was past already, 2 Tim. ii. 18, But, (b.) It will certainly come, it is coming on, nearer every day than other; it is at the door. How far off it is we know not; but we know that it is infallibly designed and unalterably determined.
b. Who shall be raised: All that are in the graves, all that have died from the beginning of time, and all that shall die to the end of time. It was said (Dan. xii. 2), Many shall arise; Christ here tells us that those many shall be all; all must appear before the Judge, and therefore all must be raised; every person, and the whole of every person; every soul shall return to its body, and every bone to its bone. The grave is the prison of dead bodies, where they are detained; their furnace, where they are consumed (Job xxiv. 19); yet, in prospect of their resurrection, we may call it their bed, where they sleep to be awaked again; their treasury, where they are laid up to be used again. Even those that are not put into graves shall arise; but, because most are put into graves, Christ uses this expression, all that are in the graves. The Jews used the word sheol for the grave, which signifies the state of the dead; all that are in that state shall hear.
c. How they shall be raised. Two things are here told us:-- (a.) The efficient of this resurrection: They shall hear his voice; that is, he shall cause them to hear it, as Lazarus was made to hear that word, Come forth; a divine power shall go along with the voice, to put life into them, and enable them to obey it. When Christ rose, there was no voice heard, not a word spoken, because he rose by his own power; but at the resurrection of the children of men we find three voices spoken of, 1 Thess. iv. 16. The Lord shall descend with a shout, the shout of a king, with the voice of the archangel; either Christ himself, the prince of the angels, or the commander-in-chief, under him, of the heavenly hosts; and with the trumpet of God: the soldier's trumpet sounding the alarm of war, the judge's trumpet publishing the summons to the court. (b.) The effect of it: They shall come forth out of their graves, as prisoners out of their prison-house; they shall arise out of the dust, and shake themselves from it; see Isa. lii. 1, 2, 11. But this is not all; they shall appear before Christ's tribunal, shall come forth as those that are to be tried, come forth to the bar, publicly to receive their doom.
d. To what they shall be raised; to a different state of happiness or misery, according to their different character; to a state of retribution, according to what they did in the state of probation.
(a.) They that have done good shall come forth to the resurrection of life; they shall live again, to live for ever. Note, [a.] Whatever name men are called by, or whatever plausible profession they make, it will be well in the great day with those only that have done good, have done that which is pleasing to God and profitable to others. [b.] The resurrection of the body will be a resurrection of life to all those, and those only, that have been sincere and constant in doing good. They shall not only be publicly acquitted, as a pardoned criminal, we say, has his life, but they shall be admitted into the presence of God, and that is life, it is better than life; they shall be attended with comforts in perfection. To live is to be happy, and they shall be advanced above the fear of death; that is life indeed in which mortality is for ever swallowed up.
(b.) They that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation; they shall live again, to be for ever dying. The Pharisees thought that the resurrection pertained only to the just, but Christ here rectifies that mistake. Note, [a.] Evil doers, whatever they pretend, will be treated in the day of judgment as evil men. [b.] The resurrection will be to evil doers, who did not by repentance undo what they had done amiss, a resurrection of damnation. They shall come forth to be publicly convicted of rebellion against God, and publicly condemned to everlasting punishment; to be sentenced to it, and immediately sent to it without reprieve. Such will the resurrection be.
Secondly, A resurrection yet to come; this is spoken of, v. 28, 29, introduced with, "Marvel not at this, which I have said of the first resurrection, do not reject it as incredible and absurd, for at the end of time you shall all see a more sensible and amazing proof of the power and authority of the Son of man." As his own resurrection was reserved to be the final and concluding proof of his personal commission, so the resurrection of all men is reserved to be a like proof of his commission to be executed by his spirit. Now observe here,
a. When this resurrection shall be: The hour is coming; it is fixed to an hour, so very punctual is this great appointment. The judgment is not adjourned sine die--to some time not yet pitched upon; no, he hath appointed a day. The hour is coming. (a.) It is not yet come, it is not the hour spoken of at v. 25, that is coming, and now is. Those erred dangerously who said that the resurrection was past already, 2 Tim. ii. 18, But, (b.) It will certainly come, it is coming on, nearer every day than other; it is at the door. How far off it is we know not; but we know that it is infallibly designed and unalterably determined.
b. Who shall be raised: All that are in the graves, all that have died from the beginning of time, and all that shall die to the end of time. It was said (Dan. xii. 2), Many shall arise; Christ here tells us that those many shall be all; all must appear before the Judge, and therefore all must be raised; every person, and the whole of every person; every soul shall return to its body, and every bone to its bone. The grave is the prison of dead bodies, where they are detained; their furnace, where they are consumed (Job xxiv. 19); yet, in prospect of their resurrection, we may call it their bed, where they sleep to be awaked again; their treasury, where they are laid up to be used again. Even those that are not put into graves shall arise; but, because most are put into graves, Christ uses this expression, all that are in the graves. The Jews used the word sheol for the grave, which signifies the state of the dead; all that are in that state shall hear.
c. How they shall be raised. Two things are here told us:-- (a.) The efficient of this resurrection: They shall hear his voice; that is, he shall cause them to hear it, as Lazarus was made to hear that word, Come forth; a divine power shall go along with the voice, to put life into them, and enable them to obey it. When Christ rose, there was no voice heard, not a word spoken, because he rose by his own power; but at the resurrection of the children of men we find three voices spoken of, 1 Thess. iv. 16. The Lord shall descend with a shout, the shout of a king, with the voice of the archangel; either Christ himself, the prince of the angels, or the commander-in-chief, under him, of the heavenly hosts; and with the trumpet of God: the soldier's trumpet sounding the alarm of war, the judge's trumpet publishing the summons to the court. (b.) The effect of it: They shall come forth out of their graves, as prisoners out of their prison-house; they shall arise out of the dust, and shake themselves from it; see Isa. lii. 1, 2, 11. But this is not all; they shall appear before Christ's tribunal, shall come forth as those that are to be tried, come forth to the bar, publicly to receive their doom.
d. To what they shall be raised; to a different state of happiness or misery, according to their different character; to a state of retribution, according to what they did in the state of probation.
(a.) They that have done good shall come forth to the resurrection of life; they shall live again, to live for ever. Note, [a.] Whatever name men are called by, or whatever plausible profession they make, it will be well in the great day with those only that have done good, have done that which is pleasing to God and profitable to others. [b.] The resurrection of the body will be a resurrection of life to all those, and those only, that have been sincere and constant in doing good. They shall not only be publicly acquitted, as a pardoned criminal, we say, has his life, but they shall be admitted into the presence of God, and that is life, it is better than life; they shall be attended with comforts in perfection. To live is to be happy, and they shall be advanced above the fear of death; that is life indeed in which mortality is for ever swallowed up.
(b.) They that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation; they shall live again, to be for ever dying. The Pharisees thought that the resurrection pertained only to the just, but Christ here rectifies that mistake. Note, [a.] Evil doers, whatever they pretend, will be treated in the day of judgment as evil men. [b.] The resurrection will be to evil doers, who did not by repentance undo what they had done amiss, a resurrection of damnation. They shall come forth to be publicly convicted of rebellion against God, and publicly condemned to everlasting punishment; to be sentenced to it, and immediately sent to it without reprieve. Such will the resurrection be.
Shilohsfoal
Member
Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I dont even understand what you trying to say really.
I do know the beast hasnt been destroyed.He hasnt even killed these who shall reign.They dont die untill after the abomination of desolation is placed so why are you quoting this ?
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I dont even understand what you trying to say really.
I do know the beast hasnt been destroyed.He hasnt even killed these who shall reign.They dont die untill after the abomination of desolation is placed so why are you quoting this ?
H
Hitch
Guest
Because;
Revelation 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Shilohsfoal
Member
I understand who it is that is to understand the things written in this book .
And they have not died yet.But what is it that you are trying to say?
Like I said.I know for a fact that the beast hasnt been destroyed yet.
The Romans almost destroyed it when it was .And when John penned the things he saw the beast was not.And yet it is once more.And you know that is written of the beast that it had recieved a deadly wound.
But now that the beast is once more and it shall kill the saints.I understand who those saints are that are going to be killed because there is much written of them.But what is it thart you are trying to say about them?