if you believe a person is justified in the womb. you best read the Bible closer when we get saved born again at that moment we are justified not a head of time . in a nut shell your wrong
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Free Will, Predeterminism and Predestination
- Thread starter seeker2122
- Start date
It seems that you pick only the verses that you like...
taken out of context they could mean anything you make them to mean.
Unfortunately, the bible is a complete book and not a bunch of verses.
Let's see ON WHOM God will have compassion...
Exodus 33:12-15
12One day Moses said to the LORD, “You have been telling me, ‘Take these people up to the Promised Land.’ But you haven’t told me whom you will send with me. You have told me, ‘I know you by name, and I look favorably on you.’ 13If it is true that you look favorably on me, let me know your ways so I may understand you more fully and continue to enjoy your favor. And remember that this nation is your very own people.”
14The LORD replied, “I will personally go with you, Moses, and I will give you rest—everything will be fine for you.”
15Then Moses said, “If you don’t personally go with us, don’t make us leave this place. 16How will anyone know that you look favorably on me—on me and on your people—if you don’t go with us? For your presence among us sets your people and me apart from all other people on the earth.”
From the above verses we see that Moses wishes to know God's ways so he could continue to enjoy God's favor, and Moses states that this should also be for God's nation, His people.
Moses asks how anyone could know he is in God's favor if God does not go with them, and His people.
God will soon make it known what will cause Him to favor someone or not favor someone.
Because...
In Chapter 19 God makes the Mosaic Covenant with Moses.
THOSE THAT OBEY WILL BE BLESSED,
THOSE THAT DISOBEY WILL BE CURSED.
the Mosaic Covenant differs significantly from the Abrahamic Covenant and later biblical covenants because it is conditional in that the blessings that God promises are directly related to Israel’s obedience to the Mosaic Law. If Israel is obedient, then God will bless them, but if they disobey, then God will punish them. The blessings and curses that are associated with this conditional covenant are found in detail in Deuteronomy 28.
source: https://www.gotquestions.org/Mosaic-covenant.html
Wouldn't it be irrational for God to make a deal with people,
if He knew it would be HIM that would make them obey or not obey?
You pick and choose as you see fit.
Why don't you accept the following verses?
Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
1 Chronicles 16:11
Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!
Proverbs 8:17
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Psalm 63:1
O God, you are my God; earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you; my flesh faints for you, as in a dry and weary land where there is no water.
Deuteronomy 4:29
But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.Matthew 7:7-8
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.Psalm 9:10
And those who know your name put their trust in you, for you, O Lord, have not forsaken those who seek you.
Psalm 34:10
The young lions suffer want and hunger; but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing.Isaiah 55:6-7
“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
There are so many more verses it's difficult to list them all.You say God chooses who will be saved and that the unregenerated cannot seek God.
Both the NT and OT disagree with you.
ALSO,
Calvinists believe ALL MEN are born TOTALLY DEPRAVED.
How can this be true if God knows FROM THE WOMB, who will be saved??
Calvinism causes many conflicts in scripture.
Are you serious?
Could you please be intellectually honest...
Luke 1:15 is speaking about John the Baptist.
God is sovereign and can do as He wills.
Correct?
2nd Timothy Group
Member
I hear what you're saying.
How do you feel about Abraham? Was he Justified?
Romans 4:12-13 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised. Clearly, God's promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God's law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith."
It's kind of weird to think about Abraham as our Spiritual Father, though he wasn't Justified. What do you think, Mr. Cooper?
2nd Timothy Group
Member
We are told that David was being taught by the Spirit while in his mother's womb. He also wrote and sang about his Salvation quite a bit. How could David sing about his Salvation if he wasn't Justified?
These things said, I am fully aware of the New Testament regarding Justification.
Romans 5:9 KJV - "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
Have a great Sunday! (Assuming it is Sunday in your part of the world.)
then correct what you posted NOBODY IS JUSTIFIED in the womb . we must be born again
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Ok, champ. So much for:
Exodus 33:19 KJV - "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
God has spoken, but so has Jerry63935. World . . . we have been put on notice by Jerry!
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Lol . . . I like your screaming ways.
What does it mean to be born again (according to you)?
no by the word of God justified by faith by GRACE and the blood redemption
2nd Corinthians 5:17 a new creation in Christ its a spiritual birth
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Oh, ok. And silly me thought that Abraham was declared Righteous by God and had received ALL the Promises from God.
But what do I know . . .
2nd Timothy Group
Member
That taught no one nothing. Would you like to try again?
What is the process for being reborn? The Bible has made this clear, and since you seem to be making yourself the end-all of Biblical Knowledge, surely you are familiar with these verses? Surely . . . you must!
not in the womb we are only justified at the new Birth . Abraham believed GodOh, ok. And silly me thought that Abraham was declared Righteous by God and had received ALL the Promises from God.
But what do I know . . .
yes kind of like a mule looking a new gateThat taught no one nothing. Would you like to try again?
What is the process for being reborn? The Bible has made this clear, and since you seem to be making yourself the end-all of Biblical Knowledge, surely you are familiar with these verses? Surely . . . you must!
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Wait. What I am asking you to describe is the Heart of the Gospel. Everyone should know it, so I know that you do.
Come on . . . you were really serious before, so keep that same energy. Explain, not describe, but explain the process for being Reborn.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
First, I never said "we" are Justified in the womb. I prefer to only have my words in my mouth . . . and none from others, so thanks!
All that I am doing is showing that it isn't "crazy" that someone could be Jusftified from within the womb, or even before.
Would you like to get back to that? If so, then we need to understand the Heart of the Gospel first, which is what I am trying to get you to show to us all that you understand.
Just waiting for you.
sigh ***** its a spiritual birth that quickens us brings us to life you cant explain the being reborn.. you have to experience it accept it by faith. still your justified in the womb is WRONG
impossible have a good rest of the day
2nd Timothy Group
Member
If you have ever shared the True Gospel of Jesus Christ to anyone, ever, then you have told them what I am asking you to tell me, which is . . . what is the process for being reborn? And I will add that if you have ever read the entire Bible (especially the Old Testament), you have read the very detailed passages on this most Holy Process.
I can't keep going on like this, so if you're unable to explain the Gospel then I'll have to bow out of this circular conversation.
2nd Timothy Group
Member
Ahhh . . . so glad that we don't have to continue. I can't stand these kinds of conversations. lol
Perhaps jerry63935 could ask you to reconcile this apparent conflict....Ok, champ. So much for:
Exodus 33:19 KJV - "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
God has spoken, but so has Jerry63935. World . . . we have been put on notice by Jerry!
Between the OT and the NT.