God's plan for the Gay Agenda

[Windozer]

I have my personal theory as well. Those who claim to be Christian and spend so much time defending the Gay Agenda are actually homosexual.

Well I too have my own personal opinion on this issue. And that is that you (and those who agree with you here) are not free from the sin of homosexuality.

First as has been said over and over again here no one is defending the homosexual agenda. No one here is saying it is not a sin. The homosexuals claim that. But some of you need to attempt to put words in our mouths.

Jesus gave of his life so that we could be free from sin, Yet just look at the hours spent here composing posts that are designed to set us all straight on this issue of sin.

And one can only guess at the time spent by each individual on the thought processing that needs to take place before one sits down to the computer to post.

It is certainly taking up a large amount of time in certain individuals here.

Then there is the emotional activity that goes on inside many to be considered as well.

I think it is fair to conclude that the sin of homosexuality has/is affecting many of the posters here. In fact it appears as though it is taking up a great deal of time in some peoples lives just to say it is a sin. Something Jesus has already said quite clearly, and I repeat no one here has disputed.

Romans 6:18 NIV
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

One is unable to confirm that by the actions of some of the posters here.

Romans 6:22 NIV
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

As long as you continue to be in bondage (a prisoner) as a result of others sins you miss out the benefit.

Romans 8:2 NIV because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

As long as the homosexual sin (or any other sin) continues to take up so much of your time The law of sin and death has control on/over your lives.

You are giving Satan Victory in your lives, as you are not free from the world. (Or more specifically the law of sin.)

Ephesians 6:12 NIV
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I believe the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. have control of you.

Definitely the Power of the sin of homosexuality presently, has a lot of control over your lives.

It would be different if you were accomplishing some good here, by what you are posting.

Luke 10:19 NIV
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

Apparently you do not believe the words of Jesus here.

John 16:33 NIV
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

There is also no evidence from you here of that being of any benefit to you.

Romans 12:21 NIV
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Where is your good that overcomes evil?

 

[Scott]

No one here is saying it is not a sin. The homosexuals claim that.

So how can you actually love your neighbor by never actually showing someone that their lifestyle is sin? Eventually oneday that issue has to arrise. Will you avoid it then too because you feel its harrassment, or bullying or insulting by simply pointing to God's Word and showing them what God has to say. Will you neglect to do that because you feel you need to address all sinners because you think its singling them out or are you just worried about offending them. God puts us in certain situations around certain people for a reason. It may be a homosexual, it may be an adulterer or it may be someone contemplating having an abortion. Are we to shirk our calling as Christians to make wordly friends or are we truly concerned about another person's soul and defend the truth. I agree that there is a polite way that it should be done but that doesn't negate the fact that it needs to be done.

 

[SputnikBoy]

There is no such thing as a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality. The notion that there is one is not science, it is propaganda.

Could you provide me with scientific proof of this, Asaph? You can PM such literature to me if you wish. Is there such a thing as a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality? Both you and I would be showing our complete honesty, Asaph, if we were to say, "no one can yet answer this question with complete certainty."

So, having said this, why have I been pushing this line of thought on this thread with as much certainty as I have? Well, I've studied the issue from a psychological and sociological perspective. This has included testimonies from homosexual people themselves as well as the testimonies of homosexual people who have chosen to be celibant for religious reasons. Some have even married the opposite gender and produced families.

One thing they didn't change, however, was their actual orientation for the same gender. I would defy any 'genuine' homosexual person to truthfully say that they lost their 'same gender attraction' and became 'straight.' The best they can do is to be in control of their sexuality. They can choose to 'live a lie' if you like. Some might even 'play the game' of the heterosexual for life, no one ever knowing that they were homosexual. Their 'fantasies' may well be homosexual in nature, however ...still sinful?

Like most everything else in life, there are varying degrees of orientation or attraction, perhaps even orientation or attraction for both genders. Some people have strengths that others don't have, different coping mechanisms and responses for diverse situations. It's called being a human being.

I started a thread that I knew was destined to die an early death. It concerned hypocrisy. The biggest sin that affects most if not all of us is hypocrisy. And I find it offensive that people can come on to threads such as this one and malign another group of human beings because of their sexual orientation while they themselves are undoubtedly hypocrites. I would remind everyone of you who are casting stones at others to recall what Jesus wrote in the sand about YOU. While we don't know exactly WHAT He wrote we DO know that the so-called righteous ones were convicted of their own sins and so left the scene with their tails between their legs.

Asaph, I don't know you but I know that you can't cast a stone at anyone else as long as you heed the words of Jesus. And yet you are doing just this. Furthermore, you are doing this toward fellow humans whose only 'sin' as far as you're concerned is an attraction for the same gender. Some on this forum are incompetent enough to lump these people with murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. This is how asinine threads such as this become when professed and fanatical Christians get together like a pack of wolves and attack ...homosexual people. Strange, they never attack hypocrisy with the same zeal.

You're a hypocrite, Asaph ...you know that? And you know why as long as you're being intellectually honest. Often, so am I.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Relic, I try, truly I do, to read your rambling diatribes with all the pretty colors but about a quarter of the way through I just realize there is nothing there and I quit. If you want to get some point across, do yourself a favor;

Cut it to a readable size

And

Don't worry about all the colors and sizes. Hey, for someone so anti-homosexual you sure are quite the interior decorator of your posts..... :-D

Very witty, LD! :smt005 I think you spoke for a few of us.

 

[Relic]

No one here is saying it is not a sin. The homosexuals claim that.

So how can you actually love your neighbor by never actually showing someone that their lifestyle is sin? Eventually oneday that issue has to arrise. Will you avoid it then too because you feel its harrassment, or bullying or insulting by simply pointing to God's Word and showing them what God has to say. Will you neglect to do that because you feel you need to address all sinners because you think its singling them out or are you just worried about offending them. God puts us in certain situations around certain people for a reason. It may be a homosexual, it may be an adulterer or it may be someone contemplating having an abortion. Are we to shirk our calling as Christians to make wordly friends or are we truly concerned about another person's soul and defend the truth. I agree that there is a polite way that it should be done but that doesn't negate the fact that it needs to be done.

Scott,
You can't tell the homosexual "mindset" anything about anything. Haven't you figured it out yet? I sure finally have.
They refuse to be shown anything, and they refuse to even acknowledge that demonic thoughts are the root of all that "mindset".
They refuse to even allow the definition of sin to come into the equation. They refuse anything to do with the biblical perspective, but yet they expect to rule supreme over their own un-biblical theories.

I have no idea why anyone even bothers to bring up the subject on a Christian forum that is supposed to be discussions from a biblical perspective. Because it always ends up being a very heated discussion where they divert the attention away from any valid data being presented to them and they throw imature personal insults at others as a means of diverting attention away from having to answer anything with a valid debate.

They insist God has nothing to do with the way they and the supporters of their "mindset" say they were born. They and the supporters of their "mindset" think it is not anything to do with the fact that the devil has everything to do with the way they think. They and the supporters of their "mindset" totally discard all the teachings in the bible that have anything to say about anything they and the supporters of their "mindset" put to their own un-godly theories. :-?


.

 

[Relic]

Relic, I try, truly I do, to read your rambling diatribes with all the pretty colors but about a quarter of the way through I just realize there is nothing there and I quit. If you want to get some point across, do yourself a favor;

Cut it to a readable size

And

Don't worry about all the colors and sizes. Hey, for someone so anti-homosexual you sure are quite the interior decorator of your posts..... :-D

Very witty, LD! :smt005 I think you spoke for a few of us.

No not witty, actually it's a copout and an imature way of diverting attention away from the issue and a way of avoiding answering questions.

And your belittling my post proves what?

The Color of the text I choose to use has nothing to do with this :-?

You are:
just avoiding the facts that are presented here about the biblical view of the influence of Satan on the minds of man. I didn't do a poor job of writting. Sorry if you are not considerate enough to read all the way through as some of us don't mind the details.

Seems it's okay if you and the other who support the homosexual "Mindset" write extremely long post though, aye? :


It's just another opportunity for you to throw personal insults around, as if you are excluded from it and you have to get the last dig in regardless of the rules about personal insults. :-?
You tag others as having the stance of being "holier than thou", but then your stance is no different than what you accuse others of being.


And your personal insults towards me without replying directly to the issue at hand... like I said, it just proves to me that you are diverting attention away from the issue and avoiding the questions I posed to you along with avoiding the truth of the teachings of the bible on the topic.

============================





You guys can rant and back up the homsexual "mindset" all you want. See how far you get. This is a Christian Forum and it is, after all, against the rules to promote the homosexual agenda on this Christian Forum. I would think that also includes the promoting of that type of "mindset".


Others and I have provided valid biblical perspective, but they are being totally ignored bythose of you who support the homosexual "mindset".

Do you think you can discuss the topic without throwing insults every time you want to divert attention off of the topic and avoid the issue?

Many of us have presented valid data and your insults Lyric's Dad and SputnikBoy, are very immature. Do as you will, the truth is not hidden just because you divert the attention away from valid debate.

Yep, this thread has gotten out of hand. I should have known better than to get involved, these kind of theads always do get out of hand, people throwing personal insults at each other when the debate gets to asking valid questions and presenting valid biblical perspective. So sad.

Really, maybe it's best that any topics on the homosexual mindset get banned from these forums !

.

 

[SputnikBoy]

First off you do not even know what the homosexual agenda consists of.

It consists of unrepentant homosexuals and homosexual supporters who wish to force acceptance of that lifestyle upon everyone in society. If you aren't in opposition to this blatant attack on morality, then you are most definitely part of the problem. Complacency compromises God's Word on this issue.

I would hardly use the word 'complacency' simply because some posters to this thread prefer not to be making a blood-sport out of this topic. And, if you were so strongly in opposition to blatant immorality you would have been more vocal than you were on my 'Are We Hypocrites?' thread. This thread dealt with our 'ho-hum' attitude toward the blatant immorality that we allow into our homes on a daily basis via the popular media. Most of us are not affected by homosexuality but we certainly ARE affected by the immoral and ungodly trash that permeates our daily lives via the god that sits in the corner of the room!

Notice you never see these people at rallies saying I'm struggling with homosexuality and I wish I could stop. No, they are flaming and proud of it. Those are the people and the lifestyle you are defending in this thread. They are the one's behind the homosexual agenda.

You're way off the mark, Scott. I personally do not support any rallies that promote blatant promiscuity of any kind ...be it homosexual or not. The Gay Mardi Gras is NOT what is being discussed here - certainly not by me, anyway - but one's sexual orientation. See, this is the problem we run into when discussing issues where one has an absolute ignorance on the topic but attempts to come across as the expert. You have no idea as to what the REAL issue is since you don't have the interest or the inclination to research it. You Scott (and others), really do seem to believe that as long as one can regurgitate the same old scriptures at someone then this somehow makes one some authority on the subject. It doesn't. It simply means that one can regurgitate the same old scriptures at someone.

While not condoning the types of rallies you mentioned, Scott, this kind of behavior is rather typical for any oppressed people who have broken free of some sort of 'bondage'. They find others with whom they can gain acceptance. They tend to exaggerate and flaunt and wave it in the faces of those who have oppressed them ...specifically in the faces of sanctimonious Christians as in the case of homosexuality. I'm not saying that it's right or proper but I DO understand the psychological motives behind it. And this is not to say that any particular individual - when removed from the group mentality thing - would not say, "I'm struggling with homosexuality."

On this very thread we see that a few angry 'anti-homosexual' Christians have banded together like a pack of marauding wolves ...more so than the opposing side who are much more relaxed. Don't you notice that, Scott? And, I don't believe for one second that this attitude toward the homosexual person is 'righteous anger' at all. That's a load of baloney and yet more hypocrisy. And you know it. Most if not all of you have your own agenda about the 'homosexual issue' that has nothing to do with God. By the way, how many ACTUAL living, breathing homosexuals do you know personally, Scott? Or do you get your impressions of homosexuality from the media or otherwise get caught up in the euphoria of blood-letting threads such as this?

Let me ask you another question, Scott, to which I would appreciate a serious answer. Let us play the devil's advocate here for a moment (bad choice of terminology on a Christian forum, I know) and assume that one CAN be born with a sexual predisposition toward the same gender. What would be your Christian advice to such a person if they came to you for 'help'? Would you fob them off with a 'I don't believe you" or would you offer them a list of scriptural texts that condemn them in an attempt to 'straighten them out'? Or ...what? This person might be your own son, by the way, since homosexual people DO have parents. How would you deal with the issue in a constructive manner?

 

[Lyric's Dad]

No one here is saying it is not a sin. The homosexuals claim that.

So how can you actually love your neighbor by never actually showing someone that their lifestyle is sin? Eventually oneday that issue has to arrise. Will you avoid it then too because you feel its harrassment, or bullying or insulting by simply pointing to God's Word and showing them what God has to say. Will you neglect to do that because you feel you need to address all sinners because you think its singling them out or are you just worried about offending them. God puts us in certain situations around certain people for a reason. It may be a homosexual, it may be an adulterer or it may be someone contemplating having an abortion. Are we to shirk our calling as Christians to make wordly friends or are we truly concerned about another person's soul and defend the truth. I agree that there is a polite way that it should be done but that doesn't negate the fact that it needs to be done.

But there is such a difference in letting people know about God and His love for us and that He wants to forgive us our sins then to call them perverts and sodomites. The tactics of some here who think they do any good for the Name of Jesus.

 

[Vic C.]

Hey people, I have a great idea... why don't we start a thread on "Effective Witnessing".

Thses constant debates on homosexuality are wearing me out, getting very old and is causing nothing but division and dissention among the ranks here. We all know how each other feels.

This topic could go the way of the UR topics... hmm, I think I've said that before.

Amen!

Amen, again!!

Yeah well, thanks, I guess, but I was serious. I'm this close (can you see . <-- that close :-D ) from locking this thread.

:-?

 

[Windozer]

And your belittling my post proves what?

The Color of the text I choose to use has nothing to do with this.

The color and size of your text contribute to the fact that I read very little of what you write. I find it annoying.

 

[SputnikBoy]

As you say, Vic, everyone knows everyone else's views on the matter and it's a case of 'never the twain to meet'. I really do wish, however, that people would realize that being a Christian involves more than merely waving the Bible around.

And yet, I've seen little evidence of anything other than that occurring on this and other similar threads. There has been little or no effort to understand what might well be the struggles and the confusion within of another human being. Some don't even believe that homosexuals are struggling, period, because of the stereotypes shown on TV. But, the TV is where most of us get our info and thoughts from anyway. I know differently about those who struggle.

So, if we hit homosexual people long enough with the Bible they will straighten up and fly right seems to be the methodology used by many Christians. This is like someone attempting to pilot a spacecraft to the moon using the Bible as a flight manual. Actually, and I mean this ...if the general attitude of this thread is representative of what Christianity is all about, I don't want it ...not right now anyway. And, if the general attitude displayed here IS representative of a loving God and I've somehow gone off the rails, then God forgive me and bring me back.

 

[SputnikBoy]

By the way, Relic, lighten up. My particular dig at the format you tend to use on your posts (as brought to our attention by LD :smt018 ) was intended as just that ...a gentle jibe. I make similar digs at myself occasionally. Okay?

 

[Gary]

Witnessing to your gay friend

When a Friend Says, “I’m Gayâ€Â

by Anita Worthen and Bob Davies

Anita Worthen has been involved with ministry to family members and friends for over 12 years. She and her husband, Frank, one of the founders of the ex-gay movement, have spoken about homosexual ministry on four continents. They work together at New Hope Ministries in San Rafael, California.

Bob Davies is executive director of Exodus International North America, a network of agencies for men and women seeking freedom from homosexuality. He is also the coauthor of Coming Out of Homosexuality (InterVarsity Press, 1993). He and his wife, Pam, live in Seattle, Washington.

Full article here:
http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/davies-worthen.html

Topics include:

• When You Don't Really Know
  How Can We Help a Friend If We Suspect That He or She Has This Problem?
  Non-Christian Friends
  Christian Friends Involved in Homosexuality
  Supporting Ex-Gay Friends

Other articles: The Journal of Human Sexuality
Editor: George A. Rekers, Ph.D.
http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/index.html

 

[Gary]

P.S. I ignore many posts because of content rather than formatting.

What did you say Sputnik?

:-D

 

[Gary]

Isn't homosexuality heritable?

• Yes, significantly.

So it is inherited?

• No, it is not.

I'm confused. Isn't there is a "genetic component" to homosexuality?

• Yes, but "component" is just a loose way of indicating genetic associations and linkages. This will not make sense unless you understand what, and how little, "linkage" and "association" really means.

What about all the evidence that shows that homosexuality "is genetic"?

• There is not any, and none of the research itself claims there is; only the press and, sadly, certain researchers do-when speaking in sound bites to the public.

But isn't homosexuality "biologically in the brain"?

• Of course it is. So is just about everything else. I'll bet people who pray regularly have certain enlarged portions of their brains!

So doesn't that mean that homosexuality is "innate"?

• No more than prayer is. The brain changes with use or nonuse as much as muscles do-a good deal more, in fact. We just do not usually see it happening.

But doesn't homosexuality run in families?

• Yes.

So you get it from your parents, right?

• You get viruses from your parents, too, and some bad habits. Not everything that is familial is innate or genetic.

But it just seems to make sense. From the people I know there's a type-it's got to be inherited-that runs in families and a lot of these people are gay, right?

• That is what associated traits are-but what exactly is the associated trait-or traits-you are detecting? If there is one thing the research confirms, it is that it is not "gayness" itself. That is why these traits are sometimes in evidence at a very early age, long before sexuality is shaped.

So what are these traits?

• An important question, indeed. Science is being seriously obstructed in its effort to answer that question. If we were allowed- encouraged-to answer it, we would soon develop better ideas on what homosexuality is and how to change, or better, prevent it. We would know who was at greater risk for becoming homosexual and what environments- family or societal-foster it. As one prominent gay activist researcher implied, all genetic things being equal, it is a whole lot easier to become "gay" in New York than in Utah. So who do you think would benefit most from that kind of research?

Well, what traits do you guess are "associated," as you put it, with homosexuality?

• May I speculate, perhaps wildly? That is how scientific hypotheses are first generated. The important thing is not to avoid ideas that prove wrong, just not to cling to them if they do.

Okay, go ahead, speculate.

• Intelligence, anxiety, sensitivity, aesthetic abilities, taste. You know, all the stereotypes.

But where do these traits come from? Aren't they inherited?

• We do not know yet. Some may be. Or rather, we do not know how much is inherited, and which elements are direct and which merely further associated and linked with other yet more fundamental traits. But you are getting the picture. That is how the research ought to proceed. It is not necessarily that the traits that facilitate homosexuality are themselves bad; perhaps many are gifts. Athleticism is a generally good thing, and we think highly of people who satisfy their athletic impulses as, say, outstanding BBPs. Not so the fellow who merely becomes a thug.

Source:
The Gay Gene? (Jeffrey B. Satinover, M.D.)
http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/satinover.html

 

[Windozer]

P.S. I ignore many posts because of content rather than formatting.

What did you say Sputnik?

:-D

I have had no problem understanding Sputnick (never have) he writes some good stuff here.

 

[Gary]

In his own words... lighten up Windoze. Can you not even spot the "gentle jibe?"

:-?

 

[SputnikBoy]

P.S. I ignore many posts because of content rather than formatting.

What did you say Sputnik?

:-D

Huh? :-D :-D :-D :-D

 

[SputnikBoy]

In his own words... lighten up Windoze. Can you not even spot the "gentle jibe?"

:-?

I'm sure he can. But thanks anyway, Windozer, for the support. It looks as though I could use a friend. :

 

[Gary]

Now I get it Sputnik....

This is :crazyeyes: what you said is it not? :silly:

I often find myself ing:

No disrespect....

P.S. I love :smt054 Relic's posts, color and formatting. See what she so diligently does almost every day:
God's Daily Promise
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=17532

Lots of wisdom there. Should be awarded one of those hats :bday: