Bible Study Great Secrets And Revelation Of The Cross.

[Hermit]

Luke 9:23 "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Faith allows us to let go of our ego-self so we can see the Truth of every fear we harbor, regardless of how subtle it may be.
Our ego fears the truth, especially of itself, because it is an invalid (not real) story fabricated by the mind to make sense of itself (identity). That is why the ego always seeks validation, and will even murder, or commit suicide to avoid DEATH, as irrational as that may seem. This avoidance of losing self-esteem (ego-energy) is its prime defensive mission. Our ego-mind will create all sorts of suggestions, and past untrue beliefs, to steer our thinking towards self-validation. Our cross is to deny our ego-self by putting our faith in God that we will still be okay if we remain humble, soft, and gentle; to becalm the ego so Truth can take center stage of our life.

What this means, and how it is related to the cross, is not only denying ourselves, but to do this requires us to be exposed and vulnerable to ALL the fears our ego will raise in us to avoid the Truth, and get our mind back to seeking validation again. What I mean by fears includes anger, impatience, intolerance, and anything else that makes us restless, irritable, and discontent. Only faith in God can becalm our ego.

However, the ego (mind) is very cunning and very subtle too. It's main trick, while becalmed, is to "claim" anything, including Truth, to its resume of validity. "I know....". When this happens we slip so subtly from heart to head, and the Holy Spirit no longer quenches our heart with living water.

 

[Chopper]

Very good Hermit. You are right, in that our ego is an enemy to understanding Truth unless it dies on the cross with all the rest that quenches the advance of the Holy Spirit into our sanctification and holiness.

 

[Chopper]

If your goal is to increase knowledge, then let it be the knowledge of Christ.

You listed two things here: death to our old nature that rules our lives, or the death of the cross which you said should rule over our lives. But in either case, you are still looking for death to rule over you.

Now it is written that Jesus rules over both the living and the dead (Rom 14:9), but if you wish to be ruled as one of the living, then you'll have to look beyond the cross. Life comes by the Resurrection, not the death of cross.

Hi ezrider, Yea, I found you. I agree with you. Life comes from Jesus Christ, and death comes from the cross. O ezrider, if only the lust of my flesh would shut up!! All this focus on the death that is supposed to close down the old man, is helping me to say no when a desire comes to my mind that Jesus is saying, .

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hi ezrider, Yea, I found you. I agree with you. Life comes from Jesus Christ, and death comes from the cross. O ezrider, if only the lust of my flesh would shut up!! All this focus on the death that is supposed to close down the old man, is helping me to say no when a desire comes to my mind that Jesus is saying, .

AMEN!

 

[Chopper]

Soul man, Chopper. How do you reckon yourself to be dead to sin? What does that mean to you? In the scriptures it is written that we are crucified with Christ. How would you express your crucifixion with Christ as it pertains to the knowledge of your death?

If someone by the knowledge of the law continues to bring their sins before the cross, have they truly reckoned themselves dead to sin?

Hello again my friend ezrider. You ask, " How would you express your crucifixion with Christ as it pertains to the knowledge of your death? "I would express it like this. Jesus is being crucified with a sinner on His right and a sinner on His left, and a sinner (me) on His bloody back. As Jesus dies, so do I. As Jesus is resurrected, so am I.

As Jesus leaves this earth to never come back as the same, so do I.

 

[DavidC]

Hello again my friend ezrider. You ask, " How would you express your crucifixion with Christ as it pertains to the knowledge of your death? "I would express it like this. Jesus is being crucified with a sinner on His right and a sinner on His left, and a sinner (me) on His bloody back. As Jesus dies, so do I. As Jesus is resurrected, so am I.

As Jesus leaves this earth to never come back as the same, so do I.

This is awesome! ☺

 

[ezrider]

Hello again my friend ezrider. You ask, " How would you express your crucifixion with Christ as it pertains to the knowledge of your death? "I would express it like this. Jesus is being crucified with a sinner on His right and a sinner on His left, and a sinner (me) on His bloody back. As Jesus dies, so do I. As Jesus is resurrected, so am I.

As Jesus leaves this earth to never come back as the same, so do I.

What can you tell me about the two sinners who were crucified WITH Christ?

I can tell you they were each crucified with Christ upon their own cross. But something more important than that. There was a difference between the two theives, yet they were both crucified with Christ. Can you tell me the difference?

 

[Edward]

Faith allows us to let go of our ego-self so we can see the Truth of every fear we harbor, regardless of how subtle it may be.
Our ego fears the truth, especially of itself, because it is an invalid (not real) story fabricated by the mind to make sense of itself (identity). That is why the ego always seeks validation, and will even murder, or commit suicide to avoid DEATH, as irrational as that may seem. This avoidance of losing self-esteem (ego-energy) is its prime defensive mission. Our ego-mind will create all sorts of suggestions, and past untrue beliefs, to steer our thinking towards self-validation. Our cross is to deny our ego-self by putting our faith in God that we will still be okay if we remain humble, soft, and gentle; to becalm the ego so Truth can take center stage of our life.

What this means, and how it is related to the cross, is not only denying ourselves, but to do this requires us to be exposed and vulnerable to ALL the fears our ego will raise in us to avoid the Truth, and get our mind back to seeking validation again. What I mean by fears includes anger, impatience, intolerance, and anything else that makes us restless, irritable, and discontent. Only faith in God can becalm our ego.

However, the ego (mind) is very cunning and very subtle too. It's main trick, while becalmed, is to "claim" anything, including Truth, to its resume of validity. "I know....". When this happens we slip so subtly from heart to head, and the Holy Spirit no longer quenches our heart with living water.

Ego or soul? I agree with you but pretty sure we're talking about the soul here. We were created as supernatural Spirit-Beings and the Lord knew us before we were in the womb. When God breathed into man the breath of life, then man became a living soul (in the flesh). But we were before this. This isn't us, our spirit-man is. The soul is in control and has fears and all that, but this should nopt be so. We are to crucify that man upon the cross and he is dead. Now we resume our true identity and are in Christ and Christ in us...we are, led of the Spirit. The Spirit is in control. Hebrews 4:12

perhaps that is the moment that man receives his new life and are born again? Christ in us knows no fear. We're tasked with walking in it.

 

[ezrider]

I had asked when were you or I crucified with Christ.

The moment you believed, 2Cor. 5:14,

Your reply was the moment you believed. That may rightfully be true, but what I can tell you with all sincerity, is I had absolutely no knowledge of it nor any understanding of it at the moment.

Just a thought here, can you see your completion in Christ, in spirit at the cross the moment you believed.
Being completed in soul, in other words are you able, in your understanding, to divide the two.

So when you ask if I can see my completion in Christ the moment I believed. Absolutely Not. I will tell you now, at this very moment I still can not see my completion in Christ. Nor do I try. I can reckon my sight as Paul described, though now I see through a glass darkly..... The important thing to note, is you have to be looking. Christ is the builder of His temple, I am but a witness to His work. I must allow Him to complete his work in me as he sees fit.

So no, I can not see my completion in Christ, I can only see and testify of my Faith and growth in my knowledge of Christ. I must let him lead. If I were to conceive of my own completion in Christ, then by my own will I would choose to go left when the Spirit wants to go right.

 

[ezrider]

Hi ezrider, Yea, I found you. I agree with you. Life comes from Jesus Christ, and death comes from the cross. O ezrider, if only the lust of my flesh would shut up!! All this focus on the death that is supposed to close down the old man, is helping me to say no when a desire comes to my mind that Jesus is saying, .

If only the lust of your flesh would shut up? But the problem is, they won't, you are to live with them, and die with them.

The Voice of one crying in the wilderness...... What shall I cry? All Flesh is Grass. The grass withers, and the flower fades because the Spirit of the Lord blows upon it. Surely the people is Grass.

You live in up in Massachusetts. Do the lobsters scream when you drop them in some boiling water? So too does the lust of our flesh scream as we reckon our own death. All Flesh is grass. But our Faith in Christ and His work upon the cross has left us with an assurance, for that where iniquity abounds, the Grace of God shall much more abound.

 

[Soul man]

Ego or soul? I agree with you but pretty sure we're talking about the soul here. We were created as supernatural Spirit-Beings and the Lord knew us before we were in the womb. When God breathed into man the breath of life, then man became a living soul (in the flesh). But we were before this. This isn't us, our spirit-man is. The soul is in control and has fears and all that, but this should nopt be so. We are to crucify that man upon the cross and he is dead. Now we resume our true identity and are in Christ and Christ in us...we are, led of the Spirit. The Spirit is in control. Hebrews 4:12

perhaps that is the moment that man receives his new life and are born again? Christ in us knows no fear. We're tasked with walking in it.

Yes I would agree, the soul is the organ of expression, we would not know the works of the flesh except for the manifestation.
The only way Christ can be expressed as the believers only life, is through the soul.
The same soul can express the oldman, as well as Christ.
So it doesn't matter what kind of words you put to the manifestation of flesh, the answer is the same.
The believer has to be renewed to Christ who is their life.
The fruit of the Spirit is Christ alive in the believer with knowledge, revelation. The HolySpirit teaching them Christ, learning Christ Paul would say.
Paul was the greatest psychologist that ever lived, he knew what completed the believer, as well as what plagued the world.
We would not even know about a sin nature, we could see the results, manifestation. Paul gave it a name, he tells us man lives by it (before the birthing) and was totally dependent on that nature.

 

[Edward]

Yes I would agree, the soul is the organ of expression, we would not know the works of the flesh except for the manifestation.
The only way Christ can be expressed as the believers only life, is through the soul.
The same soul can express the oldman, as well as Christ.
So it doesn't matter what kind of words you put to the manifestation of flesh, the answer is the same.
The believer has to be renewed to Christ who is their life.
The fruit of the Spirit is Christ alive in the believer with knowledge, revelation. The HolySpirit teaching them Christ, learning Christ Paul would say.
Paul was the greatest psychologist that ever lived, he knew what completed the believer, as well as what plagued the world.
We would not even know about a sin nature, we could see the results, manifestation. Paul gave it a name, he tells us man lives by it (before the birthing) and was totally dependent on that nature.

I agree, but to take this just a wee bit further, our soul is not our only organ of expression I don't think. Our spirit has voice. Scripture says so. When we pray in tongues, it is our spirit praying to God and so forth. Do you think, as scripture seems to say...that we should strive to (through the word) to get our spirit divided away from our soul, divided asunder...to the end of, I think our spirit would be in the preeminent position within ourselves instead of our soul? (Then, the old man is dead perhaps?)

 

[ezrider]

I agree, but to take this just a wee bit further, our soul is not our only organ of expression I don't think. Our spirit has voice. Scripture says so. When we pray in tongues, it is our spirit praying to God and so forth. Do you think, as scripture seems to say...that we should strive to (through the word) to get our spirit divided away from our soul, divided asunder...to the end of, I think our spirit would be in the preeminent position within ourselves instead of our soul? (Then, the old man is dead perhaps?)

I believe Paul wrote how the Spirit strives against the flesh, and the flesh strives against Spirit. The soul is connected with this body of flesh, yet it is also married to our Spirit. Our soul seems to be caught in the middle of that struggle between the flesh and the spirit.

 

[Chopper]

Soul man, Chopper. How do you reckon yourself to be dead to sin? What does that mean to you? In the scriptures it is written that we are crucified with Christ. How would you express your crucifixion with Christ as it pertains to the knowledge of your death?

If someone by the knowledge of the law continues to bring their sins before the cross, have they truly reckoned themselves dead to sin?

Hello again my friend ezrider. You ask, " How would you express your crucifixion with Christ as it pertains to the knowledge of your death? "I would express it like this. Jesus is being crucified with a sinner on His right and a sinner on His left, and a sinner (me) on His bloody back. As Jesus dies, so do I. As Jesus is resurrected, so am I.

As Jesus leaves this earth to never come back as the same, so do I.

It's taking me a while to answer you because "Fire Fox" keeps crashing and giving me grief. ugg!!

 

[ezrider]

Calvary and Pentecost are inseparable. Calvary always sends a man on to Pentecost.

This my friend is an interesting observation. You have hit on something here. I think you also said that Pentecost sends you back to Calvary. I think there is much to discuss about this.


If we are to understand great secrets and revelations of the cross, and with the relationship you have brought to our attention here, there is something that you should consider. Location, location, location.

Calvary, the crucifixion of Christ and the cross were located outside the city walls.
Pentecost came inside the city walls.

Now think about the parable of the ten virgins. The wise virgins went forth into the city and the doors were shut. The foolish virgins were left outside city, where they returned to Calvary looking for salvation.

 

[Chopper]

Hi my friend ezrider. I want to make something very clear to you about Soul man's and my emphasis on the cross of Jesus and what that demands in the lives of true believers in Jesus Christ. This is what you said...."There is something about this statement that just strikes me as off. I'm struggling to find the words for it. I understand your emphasis here in the cross and the death of Christ, but I would be cautious in over emphasizing the purpose his death by diminishing the rest of what He did and accomplished. If we are to know Christ, then we must seek to know all of Christ; not just his death. (the red is mine, Chop)

Now, you know me by now and you know that I believe in balance. This thread though is targeted at the death aspect of Jesus' cross as it has to do with our old nature and old man. Saying no to the old sinful nature was what Paul faced in Romans seven as a great challenge. It is one of the greatest challenges for us as well. This thread faces that challenge with the hopes that someone beyond me will respond with NO to a desire of the flesh nature, and LIVE.

 

[ezrider]

Soul man, as it pertains to the coming of Christ, when is the Resurrection from the Dead?

 

[Soul man]

I agree, but to take this just a wee bit further, our soul is not our only organ of expression I don't think. Our spirit has voice. Scripture says so. When we pray in tongues, it is our spirit praying to God and so forth. Do you think, as scripture seems to say...that we should strive to (through the word) to get our spirit divided away from our soul, divided asunder...to the end of, I think our spirit would be in the preeminent position within ourselves instead of our soul? (Then, the old man is dead perhaps?)

Yes that is my understanding, spirit expressed through soul. The soul being the you I see and the me you see. It is the uniqueness of each individual, as they are created. The touch of God for personality, and expression.
Their is only one you, one me, all in the image and likeness of God.
I see a fine line between soul and spirit, but there is a line and we need to differentiate between the two.
The message of Christ as the life of the believer, Gal. 2:20, is a pure life of grace.
It is a knowing we come to, John 14:20,
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

A revelation, Gal. 1:11-12, 15-16,
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

 

[ezrider]

This thread though is targeted at the death aspect of Jesus' cross as it has to do with our old nature and old man.

I understand your intent of targeting the death aspect of Jesus, and as this tread has moved along, there is certainly more to understand about it.

But I too must remind you that you asked the Spirit of the Lord for new revelation; great secrets and revelations of the cross. If you are targeting only a certain aspect, then what are you listening for? If we ask the Lord for new revelation, should we then tell Him to limit it to only what we want to hear?

 

[Chopper]

This my friend is an interesting observation. You have hit on something here. I think you also said that Pentecost sends you back to Calvary. I think there is much to discuss about this.


If we are to understand great secrets and revelations of the cross, and with the relationship you have brought to our attention here, there is something that you should consider. Location, location, location.

Calvary, the crucifixion of Christ and the cross were located outside the city walls.
Pentecost came inside the city walls.

Now think about the parable of the ten virgins. The wise virgins went forth into the city and the doors were shut. The foolish virgins were left outside city, where they returned to Calvary looking for salvation.

Hmm, interesting bunny trail, Ok, Because they were virgins, they were as saved as the ones that had the oil & trimmed lamps. They missed the first Glory Train because they weren't ready.

This reminds me of any Bible believing, preaching Baptist Church. A small segment of the folk are the Bride, waiting for their Husband to be and ready. The other folk in the church are the pew warmers, they'll have to be tested and proved worthy of the second Glory Train at 3 1/2 years into the trib. Please don't ask me one of your favorite questions because that would have to be another thread.

Love You,
Chopper