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WIP said:
I just searched the NKJV and found 35 references to the word "hell." Nineteen in the Old Testament and 16 in the New Testament with 11 of them credited to Jesus in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. How can he say it is not in the Bible?
Click to expand...

However, what are exegesis of those words? Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus do not refer to same places.

Oz
 
wondering said:
BTW
The story of the Ark is also not original and neither is the story of Adam and Eve. So what do we do now?

We've been through the words.
I believe hell exists,,,I don't think knowing what those words mean has anything to do with the question at hand.

It just shows how some words were mistranslated since the English equivalent doesn't exist.

That's not a good excuse in any case.
Think of all the new words that were invented with the advent on the internet/computer...
Click to expand...

Wondering,

Jesus believed in Noah's Ark as literal truth. See Lk 17:26-27.

Oz
 
Randy said:
Its not putting in. We read "forms"
What spirit is formed? We read the "Spirit of man"
Is not man a human?

Do you believe Gods Spirit is divine?
Click to expand...
Forms, putting in, either way, where is this human breath/spirit?

Yeah, man is human. But that which give him life, the breath of God, isn't human. It's part of God.

If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust. (Job 34:14-15 KJV)

If God retrieved His spirit/breath all flesh would die and man would return to dust. Its God's breath that keeps man alive. God's breath/spirit in man.
 
Butch5 said:
Forms, putting in, either way, where is this human breath/spirit?

Yeah, man is human. But that which give him life, the breath of God, isn't human. It's part of God.

If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust. (Job 34:14-15 KJV)

If God retrieved His spirit/breath all flesh would die and man would return to dust. Its God's breath that keeps man alive. God's breath/spirit in man.
Click to expand...
Why would God need to form His own Spirit. Is it not already formed? He forms the Spirit of Man within the man. Something created. The new creation, Christ in us, is gifted not formed.

He who forms the Spirit is indeed our heavenly Father. He is the Father of all spirits whether angels or man or Christ. Hence heavenly Father.

Man would return to dust if God no longer "formed" the spirit in man as flesh gives birth to flesh not spirit.

Again do you believe the Spirit of God is divine?
 
Randy said:
Why would God need to form His own Spirit. Is it not already formed? He forms the Spirit of Man within the man. Something created. The new creation, Christ in us, is gifted not formed.

He who forms the Spirit is indeed our heavenly Father. He is the Father of all spirits whether angels or man or Christ. Hence heavenly Father.

Man would return to dust if God no longer "formed" the spirit in man as flesh gives birth to flesh not spirit.

Again do you believe the Spirit of God is divine?
Click to expand...
Why are you playing games with the word formed? Spirit is breath. We see clearly that God breathed the breath of life into man. That's forming the spirit in man That is the spirit in man. You've yet to show this human breath/ spirit from Scripture.

The word formed that you're stuck on is translated from a word that means to morph. This is the definition of morph.

"to change the form or character of"

That's what happens when God breathes His breath into man.

Regarding your other question please define, divine
 
Butch5 said:
Why are you playing games with the word formed? Spirit is breath. We see clearly that God breathed the breath of life into man. That's forming the spirit in man That is the spirit in man. You've yet to show this human breath/ spirit from Scripture.

The word formed that you're stuck on is translated from a word that means to morph. This is the definition of morph.

"to change the form or character of"

That's what happens when God breathes His breath into man.

Regarding your other question please define, divine
Click to expand...
Forms is something created. As opposed to gifted which is something given.
Why do I need to define divine? Is that a word I made up?

I see the same thing the translators of the NIV noted.
God forms the human spirit within Him.

I thing we are going to have to agree to disagree as I am tired of this discussion.

Needless to state I believe the Spirits of the wicked will be gathered up by God and thrown into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. We will have to agree to disagree on that as well.
 
Randy said:
Forms is something created. As opposed to gifted which is something given.
Why do I need to define divine? Is that a word I made up?

I see the same thing the translators of the NIV noted.
God forms the human spirit within Him.

I thing we are going to have to agree to disagree as I am tired of this discussion.

Needless to state I believe the Spirits of the wicked will be gathered up by God and thrown into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. We will have to agree to disagree on that as well.
Click to expand...
Again, the word human isn't in the Greek or Hebrew text. My friend, let me suggest a more literal translation to give an accurate understanding of the text.

Form doesn't mean to create. Ot means to change something. When temperatures are low dripping water "forms" icicles. The water isn't created. It just changes form. It's still water.

I asked you to define divine because I'm guessing what you mean by it and what I mean by it aren't the same.
 
Butch5 said:
Again, the word human isn't in the Greek or Hebrew text. My friend, let me suggest a more literal translation to give an accurate understanding of the text.

Form doesn't mean to create. Ot means to change something. When temperatures are low dripping water "forms" icicles. The water isn't created. It just changes form. It's still water.

I asked you to define divine because I'm guessing what you mean by it and what I mean by it aren't the same.
Click to expand...
I can't help you. We will have to agree to disagree. I have already addressed several times the reading of Zach 12:1. The spirit of man within him. Man is human.
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

I'm shocked that you don't accept the Ark and Adam and Eve as original. So you accept they come from non-biblical sources?

What is the meaning of Sheol/Hades? Does their meaning not affect our understanding of what happens at death?

What about Gehenna? Surely it has a great deal to do with the "deepest hell."

Tartarus had a definite meaning in 2 Peter 2:4, "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment" (NIV). The sinning angels have been cast into chains of darkness, awaiting judgment in hell [tartarus]. Some translations use tartarus = hell as with KJV, NIV, NASB20, ESV.

Oz
Click to expand...
I'm replying to another member.
You haven't been following along....bad, bad, bad!

But, yes, other civilizations had a world flood in their historical accounts,
towers like that of Babylon existed in other cultures....

As to the meanings of sheol, hades, Gehenna - the only word I know is hell and the others don't mean too much to me except in a conversation about them.

Tartarus, which you posted as being in 2 Peter 2:4 is the only CORRECT translation for the word hell.

If we have a soul and a spirit then I believe that soul and spirit remain alive after death.
If they remain alive after death, then it means we go immediately to be where we're supposed to be.

I don't believe in soul sleep.
 
wondering said:
I'm replying to another member.
You haven't been following along....bad, bad, bad!

But, yes, other civilizations had a world flood in their historical accounts,
towers like that of Babylon existed in other cultures....

As to the meanings of sheol, hades, Gehenna - the only word I know is hell and the others don't mean too much to me except in a conversation about them.

Tartarus, which you posted as being in 2 Peter 2:4 is the only CORRECT translation for the word hell.

If we have a soul and a spirit then I believe that soul and spirit remain alive after death.
If they remain alive after death, then it means we go immediately to be where we're supposed to be.

I don't believe in soul sleep.
Click to expand...

Please provide me with a papal dispensation as I've been in hospital for 5 days being drained of fluid around heart & feet.

Oz
 
wondering said:
I'm replying to another member.
You haven't been following along....bad, bad, bad!

But, yes, other civilizations had a world flood in their historical accounts,
towers like that of Babylon existed in other cultures....

As to the meanings of sheol, hades, Gehenna - the only word I know is hell and the others don't mean too much to me except in a conversation about them.

Tartarus, which you posted as being in 2 Peter 2:4 is the only CORRECT translation for the word hell.

If we have a soul and a spirit then I believe that soul and spirit remain alive after death.
If they remain alive after death, then it means we go immediately to be where we're supposed to be.

I don't believe in soul sleep.
Click to expand...

OzSpen said:
However, what are exegesis of those words? Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus do not refer to same places.

Oz
Click to expand...

See my article


OzSpen said:
However, what are exegesis of those words? Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus do not refer to same places.

Oz
Click to expand...


See my article:
OzSpen said:
However, what are exegesis of those words? Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus do not refer to same places.

Oz
Click to expand...

See my article:
OzSpen said:
However, what are exegesis of those words? Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus do not refer to same places.

Oz
Click to expand...
 
Butch5 said:
Where is the article located? Is there a link?
Click to expand...
Here is the article written by OzSpen
AKA Spencer D. Gear, PhD

truthchallenge.one

Hell in the Bible

(image courtesy ChristArt) Spencer D Gear In this book by Christopher Morgan & Robert Peterson (gen eds) 2007. Hell Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents Eternal Punishment (Zondervan), you …
truthchallenge.one
 
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