Bible Study Help, please! So confused…

[Iconoclast]

I’m going to respond with something Galileo famously said:

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.

Carnal philosophy and human wisdom is darkened by sin. God who created us, knows our frame that we are but dust.

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.

14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.psalm103


You offer Galileo, I will offer up The Apostle Paul who wrote by the Spirit of God;
1Cor1;
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


learn about God, from scripture before you try and overrun what he has revealed about himself and His plan, if you truly want to learn.

Deut.32;
32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3 Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

For my sake, please quote things with bold, blinking lights. It’s actually more helpful to me if you can just show me where the Bible says this.

I understand but why don’t you believe because it’s true on its own? Don’t you know people who studied but still have tons of questions? The problem is this, we should believe the presentations in the Bible because they are true, not because they’re there.

But you have a point. My style is to present biblical truth without the “don’t disagree” warning to see who actually has their thinking in line with the thinking in the Bible. Decades of being a christian doesn’t guarantee this and I long for those who think like the men who walked with God and wrote the scriptures thought.

 

[Adelaide]

Carnal philosophy and human wisdom is darkened by sin. God who created us, knows our frame that we are but dust.

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.

14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.psalm103


You offer Galileo, I will offer up The Apostle Paul who wrote by the Spirit of God;
1Cor1;
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


learn about God, from scripture before you try and overrun what he has revealed about himself and His plan, if you truly want to learn.

Deut.32;
32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3 Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Ok, but there’s also ALL of proverbs 8 that commends wisdom and the seeking of it.

I’m not claiming to be wise. Not even close. But God gave me a brain that uses logic and reasoning. If He’s offended by the way I’m trying to understand Him and His word, He’s welcome to smite me.

 

[Adelaide]

I said it’s possible to be ever learning but never come to
a knowledge of the truth.

Can you tell me where scripture says this, please?

 

[GodsGrace]

If we start will thinking God must “perform” to earn our trust, we will never arrive at trusting Him. He will refuse to perform out of love for us.

The truth is we have to earn His trust. That sheds a different like on who is the granting party and who is the servant. But this is actually how it works. We really do have to earn His trust if we want Him to trust us with that which is valuable.

“And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?”

The other poster is stating the opposite.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Carnal philosophy and human wisdom is darkened by sin. God who created us, knows our frame that we are but dust.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

Where does that verse support your distain of learning and intelligence?

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.

14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.psalm103

Where do any of these support your distain for knowledge?

You offer Galileo, I will offer up The Apostle Paul who wrote by the Spirit of God;
1Cor1;
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Do you refuse to ask anyone learned in any field for their input? Do you go to doctors or do you refuse believing God will destroy the wisdom of doctors?

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

Do you think no one knows anything at all?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

This does not say all university learning is useless.

learn about God, from scripture before you try and overrun what he has revealed about himself and His plan, if you truly want to learn.

Deut.32;
32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3 Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Adelaide, there are christians who have a strong distain for learning and knowledge. In general they tend not to be educated themselves although they rely on the educated for all manner of help same as anyone.

Don’t listen to them. The pursuit and knowledge in science, for example, has improved life for all of us. God hasn’t seen fit to destroy it all. We’re all glad He didn’t.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Can you tell me where scripture says this, please?

For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

2 Tim 3

Thank you for asking. I don’t blame you for not knowing and I am absolutely convinced the Bible is true because what it teaches matches real life. I prefer to make a case for it’s truth from rational, logical steps because it is marvelously logical. It is intellectually deeply satisfying imparting understanding.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The other poster is stating the opposite.

Well, if one insists that God has to perform, who is Master and who is the servant?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ok, but there’s also ALL of proverbs 8 that commends wisdom and the seeking of it.

I’m not claiming to be wise. Not even close. But God gave me a brain that uses logic and reasoning. If He’s offended by the way I’m trying to understand Him and His word, He’s welcome to smite me.

“With all you get, get understanding.”

“Let he who boasts boast in this, that he UNDERSTANDS and know Me.”

“Come let us REASON. together.”

“Love the Lord God with all your ….MIND.”

Those are bible verses. Here is CS Lewis, “God is no more fond of intellectual slackers than any other kind of slackers.”

 

[Iconoclast]

Dorothy Mae,
Where does that verse support your distain of learning and intelligence?

Where do any of these support your distain for knowledge?

Do you refuse to ask anyone learned in any field for their input? Do you go to doctors or do you refuse believing God will destroy the wisdom of doctors?

Do you think no one knows anything at all?

This does not say all university learning is useless.

The pursuit and knowledge in science, for example, has improved life for all of us. God hasn’t seen fit to destroy it all. We’re all glad He didn’t.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Adelaide]

For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

2 Tim 3

Thank you for asking. I don’t blame you for not knowing and I am absolutely convinced the Bible is true because what it teaches matches real life. I prefer to make a case for it’s truth from rational, logical steps because it is marvelously logical. It is intellectually deeply satisfying imparting understanding.

That verse is talking of the last days when horrible people take advantage of unknowing women. Some versions say “gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts”…

That’s not relevant to what we were discussing.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That verse is talking of the last days when horrible people take advantage of unknowing women.

No it’s not limited to that. It even says what is described was done in Moses’ day. This isn’t time limited.

Some versions say “gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts”…

That’s not relevant to what we were discussing.

Why? I told you people sometimes make the same mistakes over and over. What is that if not learning and never coming to the truth?

I know people like this but that won’t help you, I’m afraid. They attend lectures and talk
about how made them feel but never arrive at the truth seeking something else.

 

[WIP]

I don't know what version you're using, but it certainly is not a TRANSLATION of the bible, which, as you know, was originally written in Greek.

A translation takes a word for word approach and translates as best as is possible from the Greek...not something easy to do.

A paraphrase takes THE IDEA of what the scripture is saying, but the problem with this is that you often get the opinion of the translator(s) and not the actual idea of the writer of the particular books of the bible.

I like the NASB for study purposes and have been using it for about 40 years.
Recently I've started to use the NLT but I always find myself checking back to the NASB. Hard to break old habits.

I don't care for the KJV because it was written 400 years ago and we have such better hermeneutics today.

There's a good link to familiarize yourself with the different versions.
Hope I could find it !

source: https://godsword.org/pages/bible-translation-guide

I don't know Greek or Hebrew but I would guess that a literal word-for-word translation from either of those languages into English would leave the reader unable to make heads or tails of what he/she is reading. Sentence structure and word tense and so forth would be too different. That's my guess.

 

[Adelaide]

No it’s not limited to that. It even says what is described was done in Moses’ day. This isn’t time limited.

How am I to know what’s time limited and what isn’t? Does that only come with decades of being a Christian?

 

[WIP]

“With all you get, get understanding.”

“Let he who boasts boast in this, that he UNDERSTANDS and know Me.”

“Come let us REASON. together.”

“Love the Lord God with all your ….MIND.”

Those are bible verses. Here is CS Lewis, “God is no more fond of intellectual slackers than any other kind of slackers.”

Reminder: When quoting Scripture it is required to note which version or translation it is taken from. This is the law and included in our TOS for legal reasons. It is not absolutely required if the source is public domain but it is courteous to make note of reference anyway so the reader can look it up for themselves if they wish to see it in context.

Here's the wording from our TOS 1.11.

1.11: All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.
Info on copyrights here:

BibleGateway.com - 233 online Bibles in 74 languages, in text and audio format.

www.biblegateway.com

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know Greek or Hebrew but I would guess that a literal translation from either of those languages into English would leave the reader unable to make heads or tails of what he/she is reading. Sentence structure and word tense and so forth would be too different. That's my guess.

Languages cannot be translated literally...you're right.
But there is a big difference between a bible that is TRANSLATED,
and one that is PARAPHRASED.

This is what I meant.
When something is said to be a word for word translation, it just means that nothing is left to the translator to assume, but to translate as close as possible in a word for word way, instead of a sentence by sentence method.
Some bibles don't even use sentence by sentence but will give a whole paragraph in the translator's mind. This could allow belief systems to creep in.

 

[WIP]

Languages cannot be translated literally...you're right.
But there is a big difference between a bible that is TRANSLATED,
and one that is PARAPHRASED.

This is what I meant.
When something is said to be a word for word translation, it just means that nothing is left to the translator to assume, but to translate as close as possible in a word for word way, instead of a sentence by sentence method.
Some bibles don't even use sentence by sentence but will give a whole paragraph in the translator's mind. This could allow belief systems to creep in.

I see paraphrased as being the author's understanding or opinion. As a result, I rarely reference paraphrased Bibles because of the greater potential for bias. That doesn't mean they have no value but I think one must exercise discernment and caution.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see paraphrased as being the author's understanding or opinion. As a result, I rarely reference paraphrased Bibles because of the greater potential for bias. That doesn't mean they have no value but I think one must exercise discernment and caution.

Agreed.
I think they're pretty useless for bible study purposes for the exact reason you stated.
Really a person should read what they're comfortable with. I started out with the NIV
and The Living Bible. I'm trying the NLT right now --- but I can't seem to get away from the NASB!
Too many years...

 

[WIP]

Agreed.
I think they're pretty useless for bible study purposes for the exact reason you stated.
Really a person should read what they're comfortable with. I started out with the NIV
and The Living Bible. I'm trying the NLT right now --- but I can't seem to get away from the NASB!
Too many years...

I get together with a group of guys every Tuesday morning for a prayer breakfast. We have been reading through the Bible, this is our second time through it, and have just finished the books of Psalms. What is interesting and I think valuable is that we use a number of different translations. I usually use the NKJV. Others are using NASV, KJV, ESV, and others. It really helps to discuss some of the various differences we encounter. So far, we have not found any differences that would detract or undermine the meanings of the text. Most times they are just different synonyms of words and in some cases we find that we like one translation over another.

 

[GodsGrace]

I get together with a group of guys every Tuesday morning for a prayer breakfast. We have been reading through the Bible, this is our second time through it, and have just finished the books of Psalms. What is interesting and I think valuable is that we use a number of different translations. I usually use the NKJV. Others are using NASV, KJV, ESV, and others. It really helps to discuss some of the various differences we encounter. So far, we have not found any differences that would detract or undermine the meanings of the text. Most times they are just different synonyms of words and in some cases we find that we like one translation over another.

Right. This is why I check different versions when something is not clear. Even an Italian one.