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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

His Elect !

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True, but NO ONE KNOWS WHO IS THE REMNANT BUT GOD! Heb. 11:1-2 & verse 11! This is why it is call FAITH! --Elijah


This remnant are all the ones Christ died for; all of the election of grace. Romans 11:5

Only God Himself knows every single one of the whole group; but individually they will come to know who they are because God will reveal it to them by His Holy Spirit.

Galatians 4:3-7 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Romans 8:14-17 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Psalm 84:2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of Jehovah: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.

TGBTG!
 
True, but NO ONE KNOWS WHO IS THE REMNANT BUT GOD! Heb. 11:1-2 & verse 11! This is why it is call FAITH! --Elijah


This remnant are all the ones Christ died for; all of the election of grace. Romans 11:5

Only God Himself knows every single one of the whole group; but individually they will come to know who they are because God will reveal it to them by His Holy Spirit.

Galatians 4:3-7 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Romans 8:14-17 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Psalm 84:2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of Jehovah: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.

TGBTG!

There is no such scripture that say such ---

'Only God Himself knows every single one of the whole group; but individually they will come to know who they are because God will reveal it to them by His Holy Spirit.'

--Elijah
 
2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

Deletions have not caused any one to pay attention infractions are next.....


Consider this post to be a formal warning.
 
Rom 9:8 The Elect are the Children of God or Promise !


Rom 9:8

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Elect are the Seed here also !

These are Truths that the scripture teaches, and even before they are believers or born again, and while they are yet enemies, in a state of enmity, in a state of nature Rom 5:10; Eph 2:3 they are and God sees them as His Children, Like the Father of the prodigal seen His son while he was estranged Lk 15:11ff.

And God Loved them as such in that condition 1 Jn 3:1; Jn 3:16. Now at the time of New Birth and Faith, it is then that they have the right to become openly and by profession, the Children of God Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power or privilege to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

But understand again, that before they are communicated Life or New Birth, they are still Children; Lets look at Isa 54:13

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Which Jesus applied here Jn 6:45

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Which indicates that they were the Lord's Children or sons before being taught of Him.

Again Jn 11:52

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

They are God's Children before being gathered by the Call of the Gospel; Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Again here, they are children before partaking of flesh and blood, before creation and before physical birth !81
 
Called according to His Purpose !

Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now who are the called according to His Purpose ? Why its His Own Elect, and the purpose meant here is His Purpose of Election which Paul writes about here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Notice Purpose of Election and Call; and this Call of the Purpose of Election is not limited to just jews as some falsely teach, but also includes Gentiles which are Elect Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?82
 
Called according to His Purpose !

Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now who are the called according to His Purpose ? Why its His Own Elect, and the purpose meant here is His Purpose of Election which Paul writes about here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Notice Purpose of Election and Call; and this Call of the Purpose of Election is not limited to just jews as some falsely teach, but also includes Gentiles which are Elect Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?82
Notice all good things does not work for everyone. It only works for those who love God. You must seek the "Kingdom of God". God must be first above all things everyday...then everything will be added!
 
ilove

It only works for those who love God

Yes, and all who are called according to His Purpose will Love God. And they are called before they love.
 
Thank God he does have a choosen blood bought people. His elect whom he died for. Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect Romans 9:33
 
As with most things biblical that are "hard to understand" rather it is hard to accept. Or people muddy the waters of clear understanding with their own false opinions... like the Trinity which is a breeze to understand if you accept what scripture says. If you don't accept it or you try to apply false examples of the Trinity, you have difficulty understanding.

The so-called apostle's creed for example gets tenet #1 wrong.

God the Father did not create heaven and earth... God the Word did (John 1:1-3 / Colossians 1:13-16 and pay real close attention to Isaiah 44:24 because he calls himself our redeemer which the Father and the Holy Spirit are not... the Son laid down his life to save us he it is that is our redeemer our kinsman redeemer).

Election is more easily understood once you accept the fact that God is saving the house of Israel and the house of Judah just like he said he would according to the Gospel in the Old Testament:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


And there is a distinction between physical Israel and Spirit Israel:


Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


A concept in the Bible as far back as Deuteronomy 10:16 (circumcision of the heart which means what Paul wrote in Galatians 3:28 neither is there male or female in Christ...)

and:

Romans 9:6 (KJV)
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


Total nonsense unless there is a distinction between physical Israel and Spirit Israel.


Philippians 3:3 (KJV)
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


You will also discover in the word searched of scripture that we are the eternal elect as well. And the Jews for the bearing of the privilege and curse of bringing truth into the world in written (scripture) and living (Christ) forms are temporal elect in this world which has no bearing on their standing in judgment.



Romans 11:28 (KJV)
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.


This temporal election is of great significance in that the great tribulation serves the purpose of posing to the Jews who survive to that point the last resort scenario of crying out to Jesus to save them after everything else in history has failed them. Hosanna is actually hosha nah (save now) and hosha is part of Jesus' Hebrew name YeHOSHua... And this is when Zechariah 10 etc describes his return.


Better minds than most cannot come up with another purpose for even having a great tribulation period... to beat up on the unbelievers who will end up in hell?



Nope. Salvation of the Jews. The only thing that makes sense.
 

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

What is the election that stands....."The older shall serve the younger."
Rom_9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

This is the election....
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The election is salvation received by grace through faith = the younger, Jacob, through the Seed of Abraham = Jesus Christ
Not by works = the older, Esau, not through the Law

Put out the bondwoman (Hagar) and her son (Ishmael).


Just what I see in the Word.

 
Salvation for God's Elect or Chosen !


Ps 106:4-5

4 Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

The writer here recognizes an Election, A Chosen People for Salvation. No he is not referring to the physical nation of israel itself, but an Israel in Israel, a Chosen People in her, the Election as here Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Thats who the writer has in mind. Notice he calls them thy chosen as in Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats the only chosen God has, those Chosen in Him [Christ]

But notice also he refers to them as thy Inheritance, which again corresponds to Eph 1:18
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

The Saints are God's True Chosen People, whether jew or gentile ! Deut 33:3

Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

They shall receive God's Words. Remember Jesus said of those given to Him by the Father Jn 17:8

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Ps 85:8

I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Ps 148:14

He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the Lord.

Dan 7:27

And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Back to our text, the Psalmist calls them His Nation 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That would be a Nation that brings forth fruit Matt 21:43

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
 
The ancient people or The People of Eternity !

Isa 44:7

7 And who, as I, shall call and shall declare it, and set it in order for Me, since I appointed the ancient people? And the things that are coming and shall come, let them show unto them.

God here states that He appointed the ancient people or it can be rendered the people of eternity, this because the elect in the Purpose of God are a People from Eternity as they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the world began, of which also they had their Names inscribed in the Lambs Book of Life befre the foundation, which appointed or made certain their beings in time !

Their beings were foundationed from everlasting !


God had from old detrmined them everlasting Life in everlasting habitations, through the Lord Jesus Christ !
 
Is the fact that God has an election a theory of a man name calvin, or is it a scriptural truth ?


Hi savedbygrace57,Oh boy, Calvinism, the great debate. I do have some thoughts on this subject.
It seems to me that the theology of predestination produces an obstinate group of people that reject certain Scripture while twisting others. I'd like to explain.

Terminology: 5 point calvinists or "5 pointers" Teach that only those predestined or called to Salvation "before the foundation of the wordl (Ephesians 1:4) will ultimately be saved. But, those who make up the masses of so-called Christians (not called) are forever lost.

4 point calvinists (adhering to only 4 points) or "4 pointers", that's where I am, who believe in predestination plus, what I call "a general call of the Gospel".

Predestination is God's "remnant" in New Testament times (Romans 11:5).

Now, the "general call". Jesus Himself said in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life". The "world" is everyone and "whoever" is anyone, not just the "called". So now we have a person who is not called but responds to the general call. Unlike the called ones, he can loose his Salvation. Some will say that they were not really saved in the first place. Although that's true, some, on the other hand are saved if (Col.1:23) they continue in the faith. Look at all the if's in Scriptue Hebrews 3:12, 3:6, 3:14 which says "For we have come to share in Christ if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. These are just a few of the if's

Those who have been called before the foundations of the world cannot loose their Salvation. But, those who come through the general call can loose their Salvation. A good point is found in 2 Thess. 2:3. KJV "a falling away" NIV & ESV "rebellion" commonly seen as a religious apostasy. These are not the chosen but those who come through the general call. Now, some of those will "continue in the faith" and not rebel and ultimately die and go to Heaven with the called.

Conclusion: Every living soul on earth has an opportunity to be Biblically saved.
 
Hi savedbygrace57,Oh boy, Calvinism, the great debate. I do have some thoughts on this subject.
It seems to me that the theology of predestination produces an obstinate group of people that reject certain Scripture while twisting others. I'd like to explain.


I don't see the problem is really all wrapped up in predestination or this idea of a 'general call'.

I see the problem is all coming from this idea of the "I" in the TULIP. Irresistible Grace.

Grace of God is not just for salvation. God's grace is bestowed on every part of life and how we live it, including resisting sin.
IF God's grace is Irresistible then no person who is "chosen" will have one little tiny particle of sin in their life.
Sin is Never the will of God in His chosen people.
If one says they have no sin, John says they are a liar (sin).
SO.....God's grace is not Irresistible.
 
God's grace is not Irresistible

Hi Deborah13, glad to see your reply. Id like to address your comment that God's grace is not irresistible. You may have misunderstood how irresistible is used in Calvins TULIP. We are not talking about grace after salvation, we are speaking about that grace for salvation. Obviously the chosen ones will sin after salvation. God's irresistable grace does not keep anyone from sin, it is only applied to that chosen one at salvation.

Perhaps the "Baptist Confession of Faith" (1689) revised by Charles H. Spurgeon will help. We will look only at "Effectual Calling". "Those whom God has predestinated to life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time to effectually call by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death which they are in by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ. He enlightens their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God. He takes away their heart of stone and gives to them a heart of flesh. He renews their wills, and by His almighty power, causes them to desire and pursue that which is good. He effectually draws them to Jesus Christ, yet in such a way that they come absolutely freely, being made willing by His grace.

This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not on account of anything at all forseen in man. It is not made because of any power or agency in the creature who is wholly passive in the matter. Man is dead in sins and trespasses until quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit. By this he is enabled to answer the call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed by it. This enabling power is no less power than that which raised up Chrit from the dead."

I personally believe that somehow God knew us before the foundations of the earth was laid. Perhaps in seed form, who knows. He had a blueprint of His chosen people's lives. What year that person would be born, what geographical location. He has always had a remnant of believers who are called into a specific time and place to represent Him so others would catch a glimpse of who God is. We are ambassadors of God, created in His image so that in any culture at any time a believer may be the only Bible that they will ever see.
 
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I personally believe that somehow God knew us before the foundations of the earth was laid.


I agree with this and it is scriptural. Below is the scripture that says Jesus was sacrificed by the "determined counsel" and "foreknowledge" of God. We see God had foreknowledge and He determined what would happen. When God determines something, it will happen. Just as in Daniel 9:24 "24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
In the Greek and Hebrew, that word determined is a decree, so God decreed because of His foreknowledge or within His foreknowledge.
Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

So we see that the elect (chosen) are by the foreknowledge of God. That means that God knew something before the foundation of the world. In order to understand the foreknowledge that God had, you will need to figure out what God knew and therefore chose, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Ephraim. When you do figure that out, you will know why you are chosen. :)
But we also need to remember that Jesus is the Seed of Abraham and Jesus is the Chosen (Elect) One.
We are not just some random selection, like drawing a name out of a hat. God knew....something.

But it doesn't say that God decreed that we would be of the elect. In other words He didn't say, this one I decree to be saved and this one I don't. Even between Esau and Jacob, there was a reason but not because of something they had already done, they were in the womb. But foreknowledge and God had a plan. Just my own opinion is that because of this plan He did decree that Esau would be born first and Jacob second. "the older will serve the younger" and that fit into the bigger plan.

I do understand what Calvin taught about "I". But it just doesn't sit with well with scripture. There is not one scripture that says God's grace is 'I' even for salvation, that I can find.
Jesus didn't die on the cross just for our salvation. He died for many things, including our sanctification. So if God's grace is "I" for salvation, it follows that it must be "I" for sanctification. Don't you think? If not, why?




He effectually draws them to Jesus Christ, yet in such a way that they come absolutely freely, being made willing by His grace.

There is absolutely nothing "freely" about be "made" willing. Being free is to have a choice, there is no choice in being made to do something, whether it is good for us and we are happy doing it or not.


"Those whom God has predestinated to life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time to effectually call by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death which they are in by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ.


I love much of what Charles Spurgeon preached, he was an amazing preacher that taught in a common sense way and he didn't mince words. But I don't agree with part of this statement.
I do not find anything in the word about an ineffectual call (general call) and effectual call (elect call). Even though we know that not all will respond to the salvation Gospel message. In other words, it will be effectual to some and not to others but not because God did something for one person and not for another. God is not a respecter of persons. No one will be able to stand before our Lord and cry, NOT FAIR, you didn't give me the call.

Of coarse, this is just the statements of a lay person, who loves God and tries her best to understand.

Blessings Chopper
 
So if God's grace is "I" for salvation, it follows that it must be "I" for sanctification. Don't you think? If not, why?


Good research Deborah, I like most of what you wrote. There are a few points that more study in all aspects of Calvin's TULIP will clarify some things in your mind. I agree with your statement that "I" for salvation and "I" for sanctification, yep! I find that folk are not that familiar with God's sovereignty. Since God is the supreme ruler of all creation, He can do anything he wants, period! Can the clay jar say to the Potter, why have you made me this way? NO! We look at God's doings with questions, He understands, His ways are not our ways.
 
The ancient people or The People of Eternity !

Isa 44:7

7 And who, as I, shall call and shall declare it, and set it in order for Me, since I appointed the ancient people? And the things that are coming and shall come, let them show unto them.

God here states that He appointed the ancient people or it can be rendered the people of eternity, this because the elect in the Purpose of God are a People from Eternity as they were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the world began, of which also they had their Names inscribed in the Lambs Book of Life befre the foundation, which appointed or made certain their beings in time !

Their beings were foundationed from everlasting !


God had from old detrmined them everlasting Life in everlasting habitations, through the Lord Jesus Christ !


The Lord Jesus is the Elect One.

Those who are in Him are elect.

Isaiah 44 is The Lord speaking about His people Israel, and the foreshadow of The Messiah, who in this setting is Cyrus the anointed one.

21 "Remember these, O Jacob, And Israel, for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me! 22 I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions, And like a cloud, your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you." 23 Sing, O heavens, for the Lord has done it! Shout, you lower parts of the earth; Break forth into singing, you mountains, O forest, and every tree in it! For the Lord has redeemed Jacob, And glorified Himself in Israel. 24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself; 25 Who frustrates the signs of the babblers, And drives diviners mad; Who turns wise men backward, And makes their knowledge foolishness; 26 Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem, 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah, 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places; 27 Who says to the deep, 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers'; 28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." ' Isaiah 44:21-28


JLB
 
Irresistible? What kind of irresistible ...

Irresistible in the sense some one has a gun to your head?

or irresistible as in 'your bride on your wedding day' ?
 
Knowing, BREATHREN, beloved your election of God.......................1 Thess. 1:4

Wherefore the rather, BRETHERN, give diligence to make YOUR calling and election sure...........2 Peter 1:10

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, HOLY AND BELOVED, bowles of Mercy, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering................Col. 3:12

God's elect are holy and beloved.

....according to the faith of God's elect..............Titus 1:1

Beware...........If you are one of his elected Children be thankful and GENTLE with others and ALWAYS give God all the honor, glory and praise to Jesus Christ for what HE has done. Men hate this precious truth but to his people it is the power of Salvation. Thank God he does have a choosen people and be forever thankful if he included you in that number. Salvation depends on Christ and his perfect and completed work not on what you do. I thank God daily, for each precious one that is his. We worship a GREAT God and his name is JESUS CHRIST the LORD and Saviour. :) Once you are called, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..............Phil. 2:12
 

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