Horrifying. "Given eternal flesh to feel pain for eternity".

[Alabaster]

That's your problem right there. You can't listen to someone talking and at the same time thinking of something to answer back…..thanks God for the internet because it is impossible to interrupt when someone is speaking as many do face to face.

True listing require paying close attention to what is being said and a willingness to come back to learn more. A student does stop going to school just because he does not get all the answers at one time…a good student respects and trust his teachers that they know more about the subject then he does.....learning is a process and it takes time and one never stops learning as long as they are willing to learn and realize that they don't have all the answers.

 

[glorydaz]

I still don't understand how turning away from God is sending yourself to Hell, and not God doing so. It doesn't make sense that because I lacked subjective experience of God and did not find enough proof to believe in him that I should be punished forever. If I could speak to God I would ask him why he would punish me given the circumstances in our natural world. There are so many religions out there and all of them tell me there religion is the only true one based on cyclical logic (the book says it is true so it is). When I was a child/pre-teen I truly believed in everything the bible said...until I started to think for myself. I had always prayed as a child and never got any response from God. I have never felt connected to him or in love with him. Jesus died a terrible death for our sins, but many other people in the world have endured similar if not worse deaths. I don't want to go to Hell, but I can't find it in me to believe in God or even like him...I never asked for this life, he made me and left me to die on a little piece of dirt in the cosmos...how can I love such a thing?

Zakky, you say you believed until you started to "think" for yourself. Romans 1 tells us man is without excuse because he has known God from the beginning. We are made in the image of God and the creation knows his Creator. Satan, the god of this world, has one job...to blind men to the truth of God. It isn't unusual for men to listen to the great liar. We all do until we receive enlightenment from God. When we recognize our sin for what it is, we either like our sin too much and continue in it, or we are repulsed by it. This is why God commands men to repent. We must turn from our sin and back to our Creator.

You say God "made" you, and right there you admit there is a God. He didn't leave you to die on a little piece of dirt, He's thrown you a life line...all you need do is reach out and grab it.

Sin is the snake bite in the wilderness. You can run around complaining about the poison coursing through your body, or you can choose to ignore it and hope it goes away. Or, you can look upon the "serpent on the pole", and trust in the Lord Jesus and live. Darwin might say your birth and death are accidents of nature...you're born, you die and that's all you should ever expect. You expect more because you know there is a God. I'd encourage you to look to Jesus and find LIFE. May He continue to draw you....

 

[Deavonreye]

That's your problem right there. You can't listen to someone talking and at the same time thinking of something to answer back…..thanks God for the internet because it is impossible to interrupt when someone is speaking as many do face to face.

True listing require paying close attention to what is being said and a willingness to come back to learn more. A student does stop going to school just because he does not get all the answers at one time…a good student respects and trust his teachers that they know more about the subject then he does.....learning is a process and it takes time and one never stops learning as long as they are willing to learn and realize that they don't have all the answers.

I didn't hear anyone "talking". ing

And it wasn't as if I "tried for a couple weeks, or months", either. I got nothing out of a sincere "knocking and seeking". Please . . . dare not to call me a liar about this!!

 

[glorydaz]

I didn't hear anyone "talking". ing

And it wasn't as if I "tried for a couple weeks, or months", either. I got nothing out of a sincere "knocking and seeking". Please . . . dare not to call me a liar about this!!

Perhaps you don't see your sin the way God does.

 

[Deavonreye]

Perhaps you don't see your sin the way God does.

Neither could anyone else, if he is as mysterious and unknowable as is often said.

Regardless, . . . yes, when I was a christian, I understood fully the doctrine of sin. I understood most of them, actually. . . . except the doctrine of "the infilling of the holy spirit".

 

[glorydaz]

Neither could anyone else, if he is as mysterious and unknowable as is often said.

Regardless, . . . yes, when I was a christian, I understood fully the doctrine of sin. I understood most of them, actually. . . . except the doctrine of "the infilling of the holy spirit".

Understanding the doctrine of sin is different from experiencing a conviction of one's personal sin. Repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin. There comes a point in time when we see our own sin as abhorant to Holy God. It happens when we believe, and only then can we have a desire to turn away from darkness toward the Light.

 

[Deavonreye]

Understanding the doctrine of sin is different from experiencing a conviction of one's personal sin. Repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin. There comes a point in time when we see our own sin as abhorant to Holy God. It happens when we believe, and only then can we have a desire to turn away from darkness toward the Light.

glorydaz, . . . OF COURSE, I experienced this. People who are moral often feel bad about what they do that is wrong. I am no different, and asked for forgiveness often for the things I did wrong.

 

[Alabaster]

I didn't hear anyone "talking". ing

And it wasn't as if I "tried for a couple weeks, or months", either. I got nothing out of a sincere "knocking and seeking". Please . . . dare not to call me a liar about this!!

God is no liar.

Matthew 7:7 NLT
“Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

Matthew 7:8 NLT
For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.

2 Chronicles 7:14 NLT
Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land.

Jeremiah 29:13b-14a NLT
If you look for me wholeheartedly, you will find me. I will be found by you,” says the Lord.

 

[Bubba]

Can you explain this thought please? I can't see that it makes ANY SENSE when you attempt to apply it to the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, especially when you consider the 15 verses which precede the verse which you have quoted.

Matt. 25:31-33 "And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with Him, then He shall sit upon a throne of His glory and gathered together before Him shall be all the nations, and He shall separate them one from another, as the shepard doth separate the sheep from the goats, and He shall set the sheep indeed on His right hand, and the goats on the left" Young's Literal Translation

And then carry on up to where you quoted with Matt. 25:46 "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during" YLT

Looking forward to your thoughts, Westtexas

Westtexas,
When considering these verses one must first decide what is meant "the nations", most automatically think "people" is what is meant, but what if it is governments, religious systems, or ideologies that oppress God's elect and not individuals? I believe Jesus did not have "people" in mind in this passage. If the sheep are one of the two groups and they are being judged by how well they have treated the "brethren", who are Christians, they cannot also be Christians themselves. This is what would not make sense, in that they would be judged by how they are treating themselves.
Bill Brennan writes:
"The sheep and goats are judged exclusively by how well they treated Christians. Now scripture clearly teaches that only by faith in Christ can someone be saved, and not by works. Yet if this passage refers to individual people and personal eschatology, as most interpreters maintain, then we have people being saved not by faith in Christ but by the good work of treating Christians well. This flies squarely in the face of the rest of the New Testament teaching.

Finally, look at the context. Christ was pronouncing immanent judgment upon the religious leadership of Israel. Israel’s leadership, not mankind as a whole, was in view. He warns the religious leaders in chapter twenty three about the judgment coming upon them. Then in chapter twenty four he warns them of the judgment coming upon their corrupt worship system which would include the destruction of the temple.

When was all this to take place? Not at the end of the world but at the beginning of the Church Age! It would happen when Jesus ascended his throne! As we read in Psalm 110 “The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.†He ascended His throne at the beginning of the Church Age, not at its culmination. At the end of Matthew’s Gospel when he delivers the Great Commission, he already declared that all power and authority has been (past tense) given unto him.

Furthermore, he prophesied that this advent would come to pass in their generation. Before that generation then living would passed away Jesus said that he would come, (Matt.24:34) and his coming would be like lightning flashing from the east yet visible in the west. He would come on the clouds with power and great glory!

This occurred, as predicted, in A.D. 70 when the Roman Emperor Titus sends his legions to decimate the Temple and kill the Jews."
Bubba

 

[Alabaster]

Westtexas,
When was all this to take place? Not at the end of the world but at the beginning of the Church Age! It would happen when Jesus ascended his throne! As we read in Psalm 110 “The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.†He ascended His throne at the beginning of the Church Age, not at its culmination. At the end of Matthew’s Gospel when he delivers the Great Commission, he already declared that all power and authority has been (past tense) given unto him.

Jesus work was done at the cross, putting down Satan and His kingdom. Now He has taken His place beside God and is now waiting for His enemies to be made that footstool. Yes, that was at the beginning of the Church Age.

Furthermore, he prophesied that this advent would come to pass in their generation. Before that generation then living would passed away Jesus said that he would come, (Matt.24:34) and his coming would be like lightning flashing from the east yet visible in the west. He would come on the clouds with power and great glory!

The advent was not prophesied for their generation, but rather in the generation of the Church, which is still ongoing and coming to a close quickly.

This occurred, as predicted, in A.D. 70 when the Roman Emperor Titus sends his legions to decimate the Temple and kill the Jews."
Bubba

No it has not occurred.

 

[Bubba]

Alabaster,
That is the argument with those who hold a futuristic delay for " this generation", but I believe Jesus spoke throughout the Gospel of Matthew the impending judgment upon the Jews (especially the leadership). The Gehenna verses, speak to this soon to happen judgment and I think if someone were to read Matthew 16 through to the end of the book, without any presupposition they would say that, Jesus was speaking to those present as this "generation".
Read this quote and see if you can see the validity of it, in respect to Matthew 25:31-46;
"Like any of the parables, this story must be read in the context of the first listeners. The shocking end of the parables of the kingdom is that those that thought they were getting into the kingdom are not going to be there, and those that were on the outside do get in. The ruling Jews thought that they were going to be in the kingdom, in fact, they were the “keepers of the kingdom of God.†Yet when Messiah came, they did not recognize him. They never really had much of a chance to since they were not caring for the poor and the needy as they ought. Jesus is very critical of the Pharisees who liked their fine things, or the people giving in the temple and mocking the widow and her mite.
On the other hand, the underclass probably did not think of themselves are serious candidates for the first to get into the kingdom. They were told repeatedly that they were the unclean, “sinners and tax-collectors.†Yet they will enter the kingdom, and those that were accepting and caring for this underclass, as Jesus was, will enter as well".
Bubba

 

[glorydaz]

glorydaz, . . . OF COURSE, I experienced this. People who are moral often feel bad about what they do that is wrong. I am no different, and asked for forgiveness often for the things I did wrong.

Yes, I'm sorry if I sounded like you hadn't. The Lord created us with a conscience and He alone knows our heart. In His infinate wisdom, He prepares our heart and draws us in His good time. No man can know when another is called to repentance. We do know that He commands all men everywhere to repent, and He draws us all, not willing that any should perish.

I would never claim to know why one person is called at the age of 20 and another at the age of 60, for instance. His ways are past finding out when we're talking about the preparation involved in salvation. May the Lord richly bless you, Deavonreye.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 

[Bazz1040]

Perhaps you don't see your sin the way God does.

It very likely that he is not being called at this time. And when a person has not been called by another it would be silly to go someone and say, here I am you called me?

 

[glorydaz]

It very likely that he is not being called at this time. And when a person has not been called by another it would be silly to go someone and say, here I am you called me?

Yes, you're correct.

 

[Bazz1040]

Yes, you're correct.

That's why I don't condemn a person just because they don’t believe.
.

 

[Deavonreye]

Yes, I'm sorry if I sounded like you hadn't. The Lord created us with a conscience and He alone knows our heart. In His infinate wisdom, He prepares our heart and draws us in His good time. No man can know when another is called to repentance. We do know that He commands all men everywhere to repent, and He draws us all, not willing that any should perish.

I would never claim to know why one person is called at the age of 20 and another at the age of 60, for instance. His ways are past finding out when we're talking about the preparation involved in salvation. May the Lord richly bless you, Deavonreye.

Hey, no sorry necessary. I'm not offended, just needing to make my past clear.