Iron Clad example proving OSAS from John 10:28

[Jethro Bodine]

How many times did the Spirit of Christ rotate in and out and back in you today?

Your divisive argument, designed to provoke, is meaningless and inapplicable.
You can only lose the Holy Spirit in salvation ONE TIME.

"it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." (Hebews 6:6 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul was abundantly clear we're NOT saved by works or anything we've done:

What he is abundantly clear about is you have to continue to believe in order to continue to be saved. That is the fundamental point about hyper-grace that exposes it as false doctrine.

You can NOT live in a gospel rejecting lifestyle because of unbelief and expect to be saved. 'Taint gonna happen. You can blame it on the devil and your evil body, but you are still responsible for what happens in your body in this age, and unrepentant sin because of unbelief will certainly condemn a person to the fires of hell, no matter when and how fervently they once believed in the past:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

 

[smaller]

Just explain how this passage below is actually a works gospel passage, even though it plainly says that the promises are gained through FAITH:

Faithful matters are given to us and are of the Spirit. Your quest and that of many other believers is to eliminate the Spirit from the effective equations, making the Spirit of no effect and laying everything on the person only.

That's not how it works Jethro. Just as the Spirit is friendly, The Spirit is also Jealous, and likewise RETRIBUTORY to bring realignments with The Spirit. In all cases The Spirit is a remains AT WORK in all believers. One way or another.

1 Cor. 12:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And then explain how works don't have to accompany the faith that secures the promises, even though the author points out plainly that works DO accompany salvation.

The Work is the Lords Work. Who are you to say there is no work just because Jethro hasn't branded it legit? Is all work openly apparent? No. But we can be assured that the Work of God does transpire, as He Wills, one way or another.

And yes, there are also unruly members who get dealt with HARSHLY and progressively HARSHLY.

The more harshly they look upon other members, the harder the looks they will receive upon themselves from The Spirit, and that can continue til their minds are put in lockdown. I've seen it many times, where believers get so hard they think they are the only one who is saved.

God just sidelines them because they are no good, often until they just die. I think they're saved anyway. But these kinds of people were markers for me on the mindset to avoid because spiritual adversity within believers is JUST as real.

 

[smaller]

Your divisive argument, designed to provoke, is meaningless and inapplicable.
You can only lose the Holy Spirit in salvation ONE TIME.

What a ridiculous statement. God Is Eternally Merciful. 1 Chron. 16:34 and about a gazillion other scriptures likewise.

"it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." (Hebews 6:6 NASB)

Your handling/understanding of Biblical allegory/similitude is obviously severely lacking.

Read 2 Cor. 12:7. Then go read Heb. 6:8 and you might, just might see what the THORN concerns. It's quite obvious. But then again maybe read Mark 4:15 before either of the above because that is also a working fact that causes what may be going on with your reading.

 

[smaller]

What he is abundantly clear about is you have to continue to believe in order to continue to be saved. That is the fundamental point about hyper-grace that exposes it as false doctrine.

What you don't seem to understand is that when body parts are no longer usable on this earth, because of falling into sin, they can easily be eliminated, yet still be saved.

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The flesh of all believers is contrary to and against the Spirit and the Spirit IS contrary to and against the flesh. Gal. 5:17. It is NOT unusual for the flesh to get out of hand and for the Spirit to deal with same in adversarial manners. Heb. 12:25.

You can NOT live in a gospel rejecting lifestyle

No one is 'saved by lifestyle' Jethro. The indwelling sin and evil present with ALL believers IS and REMAINS contrary to the Spirit and against the Spirit all the days of our believing lives. The only difference is between a believer who can keep their indwelling sin in CHECK and those who can NOT. Those who can NOT don't belong in the assemblies. That doesn't mean they won't be saved. See the above about those who could not keep their indwelling sin and evil present in CHECK.

because of unbelief and expect to be saved. 'Taint gonna happen.

You only see that way because you NEVER see the CAUSE of unbelief, which is NOT the person. Mark 4:15. 2 Cor. 11:3 is a REAL internal phenomena by an adverse entity that is NOT THE PERSON.

Those who can not see this are actually Spiritually blinded themselves.

You can blame it on the devil and your evil body, but you are still responsible for what happens in your body in this age, and unrepentant sin because of unbelief will certainly condemn a person to the fires of hell, no matter when and how fervently they once believed in the past:

And your positions are suffering from the total blinded delusion that indwelling sin and evil present are not doing what they do when you're leading a decent lifestyle.

Nothing could be further from the facts. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:19, Romans 7:17 & 20-21, 1 Tim. 1:15. These are THE FACTS.

 

[FreeGrace]

If your faith does not love the way God 'so loved the world' then you do not have the justification by faith that you think you have:

"6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justificaton--see context), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB)

It's still a great puzzlement why anyone would think Gal 5:6 has to do with getting saved. The verse begins with being "in Christ", which means already saved.

But hyper-grace OSAS doctrine says what Paul said is not true.

Once again, there is no such thing as "hyper-grace OSAS doctrine". There is the biblical doctrine of eternal security. God gives a greater grace, according to James 4:6.

It says even in the absence of faith you are justified by God.

I will call this for what it is; a bald faced LIE. I've corrected you on this before, so there is NO EXCUSE for repeating this lie. Please knock it off.

Challenge: provide a web link from any free grace site that makes this claim of yours.

If none is forthcoming, then the forum will know that there is no substance to your claims.

At least traditional OSAS says you have to have faith to be saved.

Your claims are false. There is no evidence for this so-called "hyper-grace" theology that you keep attacking. It's a myth.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I'm not here to defend anyone's claims. Only the claims of the Bible. If you have an issue with another poster, then please take it up with them."

It wasn't for your benefit. I wanted smaller to see it.,
But it's interesting how you want to deflect what I'm saying instead of address it.
He called me part of the phony church.

Didn't you read what I posted? Take up your issues with him.

But, since I have believed, I can never be phony because in hyper-grace any and all people who believed somewhere in the past is part of the true church.

Without any evidence for the existence of this so-called "hyper grace" theology, your reference to it is nothing more than "seeing the boogy-man".

It's that doctrine of universalism in hyper-grace that reba was pointing out, but which hyper-grace itself seems to be oblivious to.

Since I've been crystal clear about REJECTING everything about the FALSE doctrine of universalism, I've proved that I'm not part of the boogy-man theology that you keep attacking.

I'm really interested in seeing your evidence for this boogy-man theology that you think exists.

I wonder if you'll come through.

 

[FreeGrace]

Your divisive argument, designed to provoke, is meaningless and inapplicable.
You can only lose the Holy Spirit in salvation ONE TIME.

"it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." (Hebews 6:6 NASB)

Where in this verse is the teaching that one "can only lose the Holy Spoirit in salvation ONE TIME"?? I'm not seeing anything about the Holy Spirit here.

 

[FreeGrace]

What he is abundantly clear about is you have to continue to believe in order to continue to be saved.

Paul never ever made such a statement. If that were true, please explain his answer to the jailer about the aorist tense believe and be saved in Acts 16:31.

That is the fundamental point about hyper-grace that exposes it as false doctrine.

Not only is any idea that there is such a thing as "hyper-grace" false, but so is the claim that lifestyle has anything to do with salvation.

You can NOT live in a gospel rejecting lifestyle because of unbelief and expect to be saved.

Such as this false statement. Only if one NEVER believed the gospel will they end up in the second death.

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

This verse has been thoroughly explained enough but one is free to believe whatever they want to believe.

 

[reba]

Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:


Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt

 

[JLB]

Read 2 Cor. 12:7. Then go read Heb. 6:8 and you might, just might see what the THORN concerns. It's quite obvious.

What's obvious is a messenger of Satan was given to Paul to buffet him, not dwell in his flesh.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 2 Corinthians 12:7


What is also obvious is the condition was unique to Paul, and not all believers, because of the abundance of his revelations.

...lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:


Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt

The point you seem to be making is -

The Lord is truly merciful, however if we disregard His instructions or commands, we may find ourselves as Lot's wife, while other's who take heed to God's command did experience His intended grace and blessing.


If I missed your point then I apologize.



JLB

 

[smaller]

What's obvious is a messenger of Satan was given to Paul to buffet him, not dwell in his flesh.

I'll have to go with what Paul said, that a messenger of Satan was in his flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7. Paul was VERY specific about this matter.

IT is quite pointless to see 'only Paul' in that statement of fact.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 2 Corinthians 12:7

What is also obvious is the condition was unique to Paul, and not all believers, because of the abundance of his revelations.

The same revelations are given to us, as well as ALL SCRIPTURE is given to us, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, 2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Peter 3:16.

Just seeing an individual in scripture is worthless sight. Scripture doesn't see that way. Scripture sees mankind AND the spirit of disobedience that is NOT mankind. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, 1 John 3:8.

Those who do not and can not see AS SCRIPTURE SEES have in fact been blinded and stolen from by an entity that is NOT THEM, Mark 4:15.

 

[th1b.taylor]

yes even some so called pastors ..see we have this among all denoms......when cornered and asked do you believe in o.s.a.s they will say no. next conservation what would it take to get you back in Church? the foot shuffle starts in many cases i dont need to go to church to be saved . they are %100 right they don,t . we are living in a time where strange fire has entered the Church. i do lean in toward osas but there is some guidelines in that area . doer of the word not hearer only we soon forget what we use to be and when we look in the mirror .{the word} we no longer respond to the old man. works follow salvation works come from having a relationship. having that want to and desire to do something. i call it the inward Fire some keep a automatic sprinkling system set every 5 mins.. for me i simply can not say to one who have turn back to weak and beggarly elements of the world

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto [“were in bondage to”] them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain” (Gal. 4:8-11).
i do believe it take effort on our part to keep our relationship in the right manner . no taking away our salvation is kept by the power of God.
but the part be a doer (something we all fail at} yes i believe in free will sad to say there will always be hirelings in the Church. i have a good friend who is a pastor preaches a lot on tithes giving to the Church. but are we willing to make the sacrifice and go beyond %10. we have room for all our toys and nothing wrong with toys.. but can we say give and then we get a new deer rifle when we already have a good one. i am not legalistic or charismatic..but i do try to take a common sense look at what the word tells us i seen this on face book and saved it to my p.c ..if not careful this is where we are today View attachment 11171

Amen! My body, trying to kick the bucket, hasw taken me out of Church but it has not taken me out of service. I worry about those the fall out of service but then is my experience that they, most oft are Pew Whales anyway and their only service to the Body was to fill their spot on one of the last pews. Sadly, some will not be reached but it is good for their business or their job to be seen in Church Sunday Morning.

Good message ezra!

 

[FreeGrace]

The point you seem to be making is -

The Lord is truly merciful, however if we disregard His instructions or commands, we may find ourselves as Lot's wife, while other's who take heed to God's command did experience His intended grace and blessing.

How many other people did God turn to a pillar of salt in the Bible?

Is being turned into a pillar of salt equivalent to going to hell, or just physically dying?

 

[Jim Parker]

I am hopeful that repetition will someday get through.

Right. And if you just keep repeating "2 plus 2 is 5", one day it will "get through."
Brilliant!
Repeating your error over and over does not cause your error to become truth.
It remains a heresy. (see Synod of Jerusalem, decree X; " ... For when these forsake the Church, they are forsaken by the Holy Spirit, and there remains in them neither understanding nor light, but only darkness and blindness.")

There are NO verses that I don't like, so please cease with your judgmental silliness.

You consistently say that verses which clearly refute your error do not say what they actually do say. What am I supposed to do with that? Agree with you that 2+2=5????

And I do not judge you at all. I assume that you are a brother in Christ on your way to eternal life in the age to come. You have, unfortunately, bought that part of Calvin's heresy.

iakov the fool

 

[JLB]

How many other people did God turn to a pillar of salt in the Bible?

Is being turned into a pillar of salt equivalent to going to hell, or just physically dying?

Misquoting someone and adding words to their post is not any way to be seen as credible.


Here is what I said.

The point you seem to be making is -

The Lord is truly merciful, however if we disregard His instructions or commands, we may find ourselves as Lot's wife, while other's who take heed to God's command did experience His intended grace and blessing.


If you disagree, then please state what exactly you disagree with and why.

Please don't make up something I didn't say by adding your own words, then disagreeing with the fictitious point that I never made.


I was trying to see if I understood the point Reba was making, and apologized in advance if I didn't.



JLB

 

[JLB]

You have, unfortunately, bought that part of Calvin's heresy.

 

[FreeGrace]

Right. And if you just keep repeating "2 plus 2 is 5", one day it will "get through."

I've never repeated such nonsense. I've repeated what Scripture says.

Brilliant!
Repeating your error over and over does not cause your error to become truth.

Your claim; not so much.

You consistently say that verses which clearly refute your error do not say what they actually do say. What am I supposed to do with that?

Because they DON'T say what is being claimed that they mean, take it for what it is; good advice.

No one from your side has been able to provide ANY verses that out and out plainly say that salvation can be lost. That is a fact.

Agree with you that 2+2=5????

No, of course not. That would be the height of stupidity.

Here's what should be agreed with:
1. Eternal life is a gift of God - Rom 6:23
2. Eternal life is received on the basis of believing in Jesus Christ - John 5:24, 6:40
3. God's gifts are irrevocable - Rom 11:29
4. Jesus said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH - John 10:28

These are Scriptural facts. They should be agreed with. Otherwise, one will be in disagreement with Scripture. That's as clear as this:
1 + 1 = 2.

Sadly, those who disagree with me will very likely NOT even address these Scriptural facts.

And I do not judge you at all. I assume that you are a brother in Christ on your way to eternal life in the age to come. You have, unfortunately, bought that part of Calvin's heresy.
iakov the fool

I disagree as much with parts of Calvinism as I do with parts of Arminianism.

Can you address these 4 FACTS of Scripture that I've just listed and prove how they are NOT facts of Scripture, or that these FACTS don't teach eternal life?

That would be most helpful, because I don't want to be in error any more than you do.

Those who have the truth of God's Word in their hearts should be able to refute heresy and rather easily. So, please do refute whatever in this list of 4 FACTS are heresy. I would actually appreciate it.

But what usually happens is that my FACTS and points are ignored and more so-called proof texts are given, or the same ones repeated over and over. With not so much as any exegesis at all. Which helps nothing at all.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"How many other people did God turn to a pillar of salt in the Bible?
Is being turned into a pillar of salt equivalent to going to hell, or just physically dying?"

Misquoting someone and adding words to their post is not any way to be seen as credible.

Was my question missed? How can one "misquote" another when all they did was to ASK 2 questions? Please explain yourself.

Here is what I said.

The point you seem to be making is -

The Lord is truly merciful, however if we disregard His instructions or commands, we may find ourselves as Lot's wife, while other's who take heed to God's command did experience His intended grace and blessing.

If you disagree, then please state what exactly you disagree with and why.

Again, I only asked 2 questions. Is your reply here evidence that you are incapable of answering my 2 questions? If so, then just admit it, and I'll move on.

How can one be in disagreement, when all they've done is to ask questions in order to get more clarification.

Tell you what: when I get more clarification, then I'll be able to decide whether to disagree with your statements or not.

Fair enough?

Please don't make up something I didn't say by adding your own words, then disagreeing with the fictitious point that I never made.

Please DON'T charge me with making anything up or adding words, or even disagreeing when ALL I DID WAS TO ASK 2 questions.

I have a strong suspicion that my post was never even read before you responded.