Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Is divorce always a sin?

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
no, but you are using the law of moses to defend that she must stay married to someone who may never repent, or single. Something that will be virtually impossible unless she becomes a eunich or is called into that.

i wonder if one isnt a virgin when you marry and get saved then is divorce possible as the remission of sins wipes the slate clean.

mr bro divorced and tried to reconcile and his ex-wife married another and is divorced from that husband, she was no virgin when she met him. My bro tried to make it work again and she wanted no part of it. he isnt dating but i bet he gets lonely, and wants a wife. This he has confessed to me.
 
Jason, don't get into a debate with this person, it isn't the thread for it. This woman wanted some Godly advice and it has turned into another MDR thread. If Sealed Eternal wants to debate this he/she can open up his own thread, though I doubt there will be many takers as all he/she has to do is look through the many other divorce threads and see the same arguments going round and round.
 
What I do not see mentioned in from Duet. 24 is verse 4. This law made it impossible for the Husband who put his wife away to marry her again when she remarried. Here is what you seem to be advocating:

A man may not divorce his wife. However, he sins when he does. His wife sins and takes a new husband. You are suggesting that to get right with Christ she must end the second marraige. However, if she goes back to this man, the law made it clear God would see this as an abomination. Sealed, you are really saying that the only option for a woman in this state is lonliness, which as Paul suggests may lead her to sin as she burns with passion.

Christ himself taught that to look at a woman lustfully is to commit adultery. A man may remain a physical virgin, but he is not. So for a woman to marry him with your reasoning would be sin because she is marrying an adulterer. She would have to divorce this man which is a sin and remain unmarried to be right with God in your eyes. If this is the case then no one can marry, because if we break one of the 10 commandments we break them all. The first time we lie, we become adulterers, muderers, and theifs. By your reasoning no one can marry without being in sin.

This is the out come of your reasoning whether you admit it or not. I still will not debate you sealed. God knows the truth better than you and I. Legalistic thought and Reasoning truly means we have no right to do anything in this world, which is what Christ came to show us. I praise him that he came to allow us to live in his forgiveness and grace.
 
Blazin Bones said:
What I do not see mentioned in from Duet. 24 is verse 4. This law made it impossible for the Husband who put his wife away to marry her again when she remarried. Here is what you seem to be advocating:

A man may not divorce his wife. However, he sins when he does. His wife sins and takes a new husband. You are suggesting that to get right with Christ she must end the second marraige. However, if she goes back to this man, the law made it clear God would see this as an abomination. Sealed, you are really saying that the only option for a woman in this state is lonliness, which as Paul suggests may lead her to sin as she burns with passion.

You need to properly divide the word. Deuteronomy taught that a man who divorced his wife legally for not being a virgin when he married her; that man could not take her back afterward if she married another. However, even under the Old Covenant it was illegal to divorce a woman for any other cause, so it would be adultery for him to marry again. In fact, the Law specifically said that "He could not divorce her all his days" if she was a virgin when he married her.

There's a major difference therefore between returning to a wife who was legally divorced by following the Law of Moses, as opposed to returning to ones true wife after engaging in an extramarital relationship. Since Jesus taught that it is adultery for New Covenant people to remarry after divorce, then He's specifically saying that the person is still married to the original spouse, and that the "divorce" never separated that union.

The same concept was taught by the prophet Malachi:

Malachi 2:13-17 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth.. "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"

Even under the Old Covenant the man who divorced his wife illegally was still bound to her by covenant, which is why Jesus condemned the Pharisees in Matthew 19 for having divorced and remarried for causes other than premarital fornication. According to the Law of Moses, they should have been stoned to death for being adulterers, which showed their hypocrisy in claiming to be Law keepers.

Christ himself taught that to look at a woman lustfully is to commit adultery. A man may remain a physical virgin, but he is not. So for a woman to marry him with your reasoning would be sin because she is marrying an adulterer. She would have to divorce this man which is a sin and remain unmarried to be right with God in your eyes. If this is the case then no one can marry, because if we break one of the 10 commandments we break them all. The first time we lie, we become adulterers, muderers, and theifs. By your reasoning no one can marry without being in sin.

First of all, the law of Moses only had a provision for men to divorce women who were not virgins. There was no test to discern if a man was a virgin or not, and the issue was never raised in the Law of Moses. Secondly, for women the test was to determine whether they had physically committed fornication, and this Law did not deal at all with sins of the heart, nor did any of the other Laws of Moses so that is a non-issue. All penalties in the Law of Moses required physical evidence of a physical violation. Thirdly, the Law never said that a man or woman couldn't marry someone who fornicated, it only said that a man had the ability to divorce a woman who fornicated if he opted to. In fact, Jesus said this Law was only given because the Old Covenant men had hard hearts, so a New Covenant man should exercise grace to a woman who may have made some mistakes in her past and repented.

This is the out come of your reasoning whether you admit it or not. I still will not debate you sealed. God knows the truth better than you and I. Legalistic thought and Reasoning truly means we have no right to do anything in this world, which is what Christ came to show us. I praise him that he came to allow us to live in his forgiveness and grace.

As you can see, what you are trying to do is make God's reasoning seen flawed through strawman arguments, when in fact His ways are for our own good. His Law of marriage for life is for our protection, and for the protection of children and the family unit, which is the foundation of the entire society. We clearly see the results of this breaking down because of man's refusal to submit to His Lordship. If following His ways and exhorting others to as well makes you call me a "legalist", then so be it.

SealedEternal
 
At first I read having problems and I thought that is no good reason to divorce, then I read to the part that said he is going outside your marriage with other men. Whether its men or women he is going outside your marriage having sex with, then you have biblical grounds for divorce and you should definitely be able to get remarried. You have a solid answer found in the bible. Even Jesus said for the cause of marital unfaithfulness. You can always try to work it out, but in this case I think prayer is the only help for him since I dont think he will go see anybody, and if he keeps doing it and only saying your marriage is for a cover up, you can get out of this marriage if you cant take it anymore. Its good to show unconditonal love as Jesus did, but I would imagine you can only do so much. Sorry about your situation. I hope God lays it in your heart on what you should do.
 
JohnEboy1983 said:
You have a solid answer found in the bible. Even Jesus said for the cause of marital unfaithfulness.

Actually Jesus did not say that "marital unfaithfulness" is grounds for divorce, but in fact sasid that it is the sin one commits when they divorce and remarry.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.â€

Perhaps you're confusing the conversation He had with the Pharisees regarding the Old Covenant Laws of Moses, which had a sort of divorce of the marriage covenant if a husband discovered his wife to not be a virgin immediately after marrying her. The word He used was "porneia" which means "fornication", while the term for marital unfaithfullness or adultery is "moicha?".

He did use the term "moicha?" in reference to those who divorce and remarry, saying that such people are guilty of "moicha?" (adultery) but never uses it as grounds for divorcing and remarrying. Beyond that, this was a reference to the Laws of Moses which are no longer applicable today. You can't use the Old Covenant Laws to condemn others to divorces or stonings, and then expect to receive grace yourself for your transgressions.

SealedEternal
 
Actually Jesus did not say that "marital unfaithfulness" is grounds for divorce, but in fact sasid that it is the sin one commits when they divorce and remarry.

"But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery." Matthew 5:32


Can you please explain the scripture I posted above to me then, because it sure sounds like she has biblical support on a divorce to me, not that I recommend it or want to see anybody divorced and truly would hope one could work through it, however Jesus says except for the cause of marital unfaithfulness which her husband has done.

Perhaps you're confusing the conversation He had with the Pharisees regarding the Old Covenant Laws of Moses, which had a sort of divorce of the marriage covenant if a husband discovered his wife to not be a virgin immediately after marrying her.

That sounds so silly to me that one would be able to divorce his wife if he found out she was not a virgin before marriage yet if she commits adultery within the marriage he cant?
 
jillian.h said:
is it wrong of me to then compile a folder of evidence against him?
no, but be careful as spite will ensue, also it may help you keep the child as primary custodian. i'm not a lawyer and take this advise as such.
 
JohnEboy1983 said:
Actually Jesus did not say that "marital unfaithfulness" is grounds for divorce, but in fact sasid that it is the sin one commits when they divorce and remarry.

"But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery." Matthew 5:32


Can you please explain the scripture I posted above to me then, because it sure sounds like she has biblical support on a divorce to me, not that I recommend it or want to see anybody divorced and truly would hope one could work through it, however Jesus says except for the cause of marital unfaithfulness which her husband has done.

The "scripture" you're using is inserting the biases of the translator into the text. There is nothing in the Greek word "porneia" that implies anything "marital" whatsoever. The term simply means sexual immorality, unchastity, fornication, etc, but doesn't imply that this sin took place during a marriage.

The context of the verse is the Law of Moses, specifically in Deuteronomy 22 & 24 which dealt with a woman found to not be a virgin when her husband married her. This was because in Old Covenant marriages the marriage contract was made about a year before the actual marriage, but the two were called husband and wife from the moment the covenant was agreed upon. The period of time between the covenant and the two actually becoming one flesh in marriage was called the betrothal.

Since a provision of the contract was that she be a virgin when he married her, if she wasn't he had an opportunity to divorce her at that moment since she did not fulfill the contract. That's the only provision for any sort of "divorce" anywhere in the Bible, and was only for Old Covenant people, under very strict limitations.

This was what Jesus was referring to and calling them adulterers for illegally divorcing and remarrying. It was actually a condemnation against the Old Covenant people, because under the Old Covenant Law they should have been stoned to death for committing this sin of adultery. You're therefore turning the whole thing on it's head and using His words to justify the very thing He's condemning the Old Covenant people for:

Matthew 5: 31 It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE'; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Read it carefully. It specifically says that the woman who was not guilty of unchastity is made to commit adultery by her husband unjustly divorcing her and that the man who marries her is also committing adultery for marrying a woman who did no wrong. Even if you try to translate it as "marital unfaithfulness" it still says the opposite of what you're claiming. It says the innocent woman is committing adultery because she was unjustly divorced when having not committed "porneia". So according to your claim it's supposed to say "Everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of "marital unfaithfulness" makes her commit adultery (marital unfaithfulness). Do you see the illogic in that? So if she didn't commit marital unfaithfulness, and he divorces her, then she's made to commit marital unfaithfulness by his illegal divorce, and therefore she's guilty of marital unfaithfulness and he was justified after all. Do you see the circular ridiculousness of that?

Obviously you are not properly understanding what Jesus was teaching , because He would not make such an error in reasoning. Beyond that, it goes on to say that whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery" which also refutes what you're attempting to claim.

[quote:2rfu40ee]Perhaps you're confusing the conversation He had with the Pharisees regarding the Old Covenant Laws of Moses, which had a sort of divorce of the marriage covenant if a husband discovered his wife to not be a virgin immediately after marrying her.

That sounds so silly to me that one would be able to divorce his wife if he found out she was not a virgin before marriage yet if she commits adultery within the marriage he cant?[/quote:2rfu40ee]

It may sound "silly" to you, but it is what the Law states. As I explained earlier, this was because the covenant stated that the woman was to be a virgin when he married her, so in a sense she had failed to meet her end of the bargain. The penalty for adultery under the Old Covenant was death, so I suppose it was a "divorce" of sorts anyway.

SealedEternal
 
Jillian,

I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation, it's something I would not wish on any wife.

My advice is twofold, first, pray and seek out the counsel of some of the elder women in your church concerning the matter and ask their advice on the issue at hand.

Second, approach your husband and ask him gently and kindly, but still in a straight forward way, about his attractions to others outside of your marriage. If he admits attractions or physical deeds with others, then offer him the option of counseling and reconciliation. If he refuses and instead wishes to continue pursuing others outside of your relationship, you are not obligated to stay with him.

Common sense concerning God's heart for us needs to be used in this situation. God will not condem you for leaving an abusive marriage where your partner refuses to stay faithful to you.
 
SealedEternal,

So what happens if you have a husband and he becomes a non believer and then also leaves you. Are you then to be alone for the rest of your life? That has depressed me greatly. I have prayed for a year for my husband to come around, but he still walks away from me. I have no immediate plans to look for some one else, but i am now destined to be alone? to never have children? The thought of spending the rest of my years alone, and never having children makes me feel sick :sad
 
Thank you, I had a look at that site.

I prayed about it last night and was reminded of this verse:

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

I still pray that my husband comes around. Anyhow, I didn't mean to hijack this thread, I was just reading through the responses and had a bit of a panic moment last night.

I hope that things improve for you soon jillian.h, it is not easy.
 
Lewis W said:
You can divorce for adultery, and sometimes you can pray all you want and God will not change him, and then sometimes God might.

Lewis W is correct; due to infidelity, you have the legal grounds before God to divorce your husband.

I would always encourage trying to work it out, yet, you'll want to seek God's will for what, specifically, is best for you in this case.
 
I don't think it's a sin. You definitely need to talk to your husband about this though and decide whether you want to seek counselling or talk. If you think he also likes men, he could be Bi and it's up to you whether you are comfortable with that. If you really love him, I think that maybe if you guys work things out and he's not cheating on you than it could be worth it.
 
kismetshaloam said:
I don't think it's a sin. You definitely need to talk to your husband about this though and decide whether you want to seek counselling or talk. If you think he also likes men, he could be Bi and it's up to you whether you are comfortable with that. If you really love him, I think that maybe if you guys work things out and he's not cheating on you than it could be worth it.
yeah right. as a former bi. the attraction for men(which i am) doesnt go away. he can deny it, but it will always be that longing to be with a man. that will want to come and cause issues. he has to want to change and that is something that he must want. when i was with my man, i still had the thoughts of being with a women, i denied that but i was still there. thus the reverse does apply.if he isnt saved and repenting he will fall back into that sin.
 
SealedEternal said:
If you're a Christian then it would be a sin for you to initiate a divorce:

1 Corinthians 7:10-13 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
Utterly false.
Stop twisting the intent there by ignoring the context.




"Remain Unmarried or reconcile†vs "not in bondage"
by Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
We will show briefly that the commandment of the Lord to ‘remain unmarried or reconcile’ is NOT a blanket commandment in all marital situations where a breaking of the marriage is taking place, but is instead directed to two believers who have left their marriage without just cause, and that Paul also had no commandment for those marriages that weren’t equally yoked, didnt given the same instruction to these who were married to an unbeliever, not having any commandment from the Lord in the matter, and then also offered a concession not given to those who were equally yoked to another believer who had left their marriage for whatever frivolous reason.

Supporting Evidence

Firstly lets look at the actual passages
"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (1Co 7:10-11 KJV)
vs
"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (1Co 7:12- * KJV)

1.0
"Remain Unmarried or reconcileâ€

"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord,

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon or even a biblical scholar to look at that passage as a whole to see that Paul is speaking to two groups there. The first being those where obviously both the husband and the wife are both listening since Paul addresses both of them therein.
This idea is made absolute by Pauls making a clear distinction in his next words in saying “BUT TO THE REST SPEAK I, NOT THE LORD†where he shows clearly that he is now speaking to ‘the rest’ of married couples who do not fall into whatever category as the first group fell. These are defined as being those who are married to someone who ‘believeth not’ which we understand as as ‘unequally yoked’ marriage.

Notice that Paul makes it very clear that to these who ARENT married to someone who ‘believeth not’ that he isnt speaking, but the Lord is giving commandment to these.
Easy enough concept to see, to understand and to accept for those reading and being honest enough to let the words say what they simply state.

To these who arent married to someone who ‘believed not’, these are married to someone who instead is a believer. They cannot be anything else or otherwise Pauls words “BUT TO THE REST†when he speaks to the rest who are married make no logical sense whatsoever.
These in verses 7:10-11 MUST be those who are NOT married to someone who ‘believeth not’ but MUST be to those marriages where the person being spoken to is married to a believer. Being honest with ourselves, we accept the targets of these words to be those marriages where both persons are a believer...ie ‘equally yoked’.

To these, Paul shows that the Lord has given commandment if they depart to remain unmarried (ARAMOC/agamos/single/unwed) or reconcile with the man she leftâ€
This makes logical sense and harmonizes quite well with Gods whole word and is even completely logical even if we set scripture aside for a moment.
These are two people who have compatible beliefs who, for whatever reason, have left their marriage who, as christians, should be quite interested in working together as ALL believers in Christ should be doing in order to be in harmony with one another.
BOTH of these persons, as followers of Jesus Christ, having entered a marital covenant and having set it aside for whatever frivolous reasonings, should be willing to work together to reunite what they created together previously and set aside without just cause.
The Lord has commanded these two believers to remain unmarried or reconcile this marriage cast away without just cause (as historical evidence of Corinth is quite capable of showing. That area was not exactly morally sound).


2.0
"not in bondage"

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not,

Now we move on ‘to the rest’....to those marriages where Paul is addressing the believer who is married to one who ‘believeth not’.

This is the greek for the ‘rest’...

G3062
Thayer Definition:
1) remaining, the rest
1a) the rest of any number or class under consideration
1b) with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number
1c) the rest of the things that remain

These ‘rest’ are those that remain of the groups under consideration, which are clearly those whoare ‘married’. This ‘rest’ are those who are married to unbelievers, clearly indicating that the groups being spoken to in verses 7:10-11 are those who are believers married to believers...in other words, equally yoked.
Since the ‘rest’ are those who are Unequally yoked, logically there is no way that that Paul is speaking to ‘the rest’ in verses 7:10-11 then turning right around and addressing ‘the rest’ again starting in verse 7:12.

To ‘the rest’ who are clearly believers unequally yoked to unbelievers Paul has no commandment of the Lord but is clearly speaking his own mind in the matter. Believing that Paul may not be speaking by direct commandment, we still accept that he is speaking by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and thus his words are ‘law’ for these married to an unbelieving spouse.

Firstly we notice that Pauls words offer a more conditional tone.
“IF a brother has a wife who is pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her awayâ€.
If this brother is married to an unbelieving wife who wants to live in peace with him, then he should not put her away.
This church had asked questions of Paul and based on Pauls response its easy to determine that they must have believed that if they became born again, that somehow they were defiled by being with an unbelieving husband.
Paul lets them know in this passage that that isnt the case. The unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believer (in a physical or spiritual ‘cleaness’ type of manner, not meaning a free ride to heaven without repentance or anything like that).
These clearly were under the impression that it might be ok to just walk out of a marriage if they became saved, yet their spouse did not.
Paul straightens out this erroneous viewpoint and lets them know that if the the unbeliever is mutually ‘pleased’ along with the believer and wants to remain in the marriage, then they arent to put them away, and may even be key to their spouses salvation.

Paul then goes on to give concession not given to the two believers above.
First there was no commandment at all from the Lord to these as with the equally yoked marriage, but Paul now tells these that if the unbeliever wishes to depart the marriage that the believer isnt in bondage to this marriage.

Instead of repeating other studies here, please see these articles:
"Let not man Put Asunder" vs "let the unbeliever depart"
Does the bible permit putting away a spouse for abuse?

Now, these folks will casually leave out that Paul gives instruction to TWO different married groups there and try to apply 1 Cor 7:10-11 to ALL marriages, but this makes Pauls statement of ‘BUT TO THE REST†and everything that follows completely illogical and unable to be harmonized with the whole properly.
And the reason they need to pull this deceptive tactic is because they like what the Lord has commanded in verses 7:10-11, but they arent too happy with Pauls concession in 7:12 and after. It completely destroys these false teachings of theirs that Paul offers this idea that the believer might not be forced to remain bound in marriage to an unbeliever in whatever circumstance, and so they force the text to give instruction to a group of people, those unequally yoked, that Paul CLEARLY says he has no word from the Lord to.

Thankfully, you readers are quite capable of seeing the wording used for yourself and seeing what is actually presented by Gods whole word....

Additional Evidence

1Co 7:12 But1161 to the3588 rest3062 speak3004 I,1473 not3756 the3588 Lord:2962 If any1536 brother80 hath2192 a wife1135 that believeth not,571 and2532 she846 be pleased4909 to dwell3611 with3326 him,846 let him not3361 put her away.863, 846
rest3062
G3062
??????
loipoi
Thayer Definition:
1) remaining, the rest
1a) the rest of any number or class under consideration
1b) with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number
1c) the rest of the things that remain
1Co 7:12 - to the rest--
the other classes (besides "the married," 1Co_7:10, where both husband and wife are believers) about whom the Corinthians had inquired, namely, those involved in mixed marriages with unbelievers.
-Jameson, Faucet& Brown
He has been speaking to the unmarried (1Co_7:8) and to married parties, both of whom were Christians (1Co_7:10). By the rest he means married couples, one of which remained a heathen.
-Vincents Word Studies
 
SealedEternal said:
Absolutely. The Bible says that you are married to your husband for as long as you both shall live:

Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

Romans 7:2-3 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
A completely misrepresentation of scripture.
You may as well use Jesus' words to demand money from us because Jesus said to give to EVERYone who asks of us.=


The wife is bound by law until the husband is dead
(Romans 7:2-3, 1 Cor. 7:39)
By WmTipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this article


In this article we will show that the two passages in question speak of the ‘law of the husband’ and that even though these verses say that this law is until death, that is is not an unconditional law that cannot be ended before the death of the spouse. The law of the husband is intended to be until the death of one of the spouses, as God created it from the very first marriage, Adam and Eve, but it has never been without condition.

Supporting Evidence
In Romans Paul was speaking to "those who know the law" (Romans 7:1)

The law reigned over a man all his days. Paul uses this analogy of marriage, the wife being bound to her husband all his days, to represent that it was the same.
What Paul didn’t state, and those knowing the law would know this, is that there was provision in the law for a husband to put away his wife while he was alive . (Deut 24:1-4 )
This shows conclusively that Paul was not laying out the whole scope of rules on marriage in Romans 7 but was using one aspect of it to explain our relationship to the law and to the new covenant.

This idea is presented again in 1 Corinthians 7:39. The wife is bound to the husband until his death.
We must ask ourselves one question here. ‘What law’ bound this woman to her husband for life?
Was it the Mosaic law? How then could any wife have been bound at all to her husband from Eve until the Law ?
It is cemented that it is not the Mosiac law when we find no actual law making this commandment.

So, is Paul lying when he says she is ‘bound by law’ to him until he is dead? By no means.
We are left with one conclusion. That this ‘law’ is an unwritten law of marriage and had to be put into place in the garden with Adam and Eve. It was set into place as a parameter to be accepted in all marriages from thence forth.

Now, we ask ourselves, why, if this law is for life, did Moses ever permit it to end while the former spouse lived?
We ask ourselves about the wife in Exodus 21:7-11 who was permitted to walk out on her marriage if her husband denied her the basics of marriage, food, clothing and conjugal duty.
Why, if this law that existed from the beginning, was Moses so determined to undermine its supposed finality by ever allowing men or women to end it this side of death? Was Moses a rogue prophet who defied Gods will in the matter and even added divorce proceedings to His law? Not at all.

Moses understood Gods intent, that marriage is for life, but Moses also knew Gods heart and that God wanted mercy over sacrifice and he knew the hearts of evil, hardhearted men who would treat their wives horribly as they wished.
And so Moses understood that this ‘law’ was not unconditional.
If it were unconditional, then it was that way in the beginning and Moses would make himself a heretic by ever going against it.

So we see that when Paul gives his words in 1 Corinthians 7:39, that this is not the whole picture. This ‘law’ that Jesus presents as being ‘from the beginning’ was never meant to be unconditional. Jesus’ very words ‘except for’ in Matthew 19 show conclusively that even He does not see it as being without condition.

Paul was asked some questions by the Corinthians as is made apparent in the beginning of chapter 7;

1 Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the matters about which you wroteâ€

These believers had asked him some weighty questions about marriage, fornication, virgins, etc, to which he responded with what is written in this chapter.
They clearly had pondered the right of the believer to put away an unbeliever, to which Paul said “no, if the unbeliever is pleased along with the believer, the do not put them away, you might be the catalyst in their salvationâ€.
Paul is showing these believers who think they can just walk away from marriage that no, they cannot because it is for life.
But Pauls words also show condition. What if this unbeliever isn’t ‘pleased’ along with the believer, but is abusive, hateful, adulterating...then what does Pauls condition show?

Please see this page for more on that issue
Aslo see THIS PAGE that shows conclusively that man CAN indeed 'put asunder' a marriage, thus the 'law of the husband" ("bound by law") is quite conditional.

When you’ve finished there, I believe you will see that there is condition in Pauls words. A condition that is perfectly harmonized with the heart of other scriptures such as Exodus 21 where the wife can leave over nonsupport, Jeremiah 3:8 where even God the Father issued a bill of divorce for harlotry, and Matthew 19 where Jesus shows that the same harlotry is just cause for ending this marriage.

Another point with Romans 7:1-4 or so is that at no time does this passage show that there was ever any divorce as permitted by Mosaic law. If we take it 'as written' it shows that this woman has only left her husband and gone to join with another. Without a divorce as presented by the law Paul speaks of, without the breaking of that marriage covenant, then of course she would be called an adulteress by joining herself to some man not her husband.

Pauls words in Romans 7 and 1 Corinthians 7 are true. They are just harmonized with the whole of Gods word. If we fail to harmonize correctly, then we end up with absurd teachings such as ones that say that we “cannot sin†because the literal reading of 1 John 3:9 would seem to show as much when taken alone and not properly harmonized with the whole.
Without ALL of the facts we can end up drawing very wrong conclusions from very CLEAR scripures, such as presented here:
The REST of the story...

We hope that this has been helpful in showing you the truth, dear reader, and how to harmonize the whole of Gods word so that you understand the whole truth.



====================


What is ''one flesh'' and what is it that God joins together?
By WmTipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this article


To show that ''one flesh'' is sexual relations between a man and a woman and not some 'bond' that cannot be broken as asserted by a few.

Supporting Evidence

To prove this we see that a husband and wife will become ''one flesh''..

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

We see that a husband and wife will be ''one flesh''.
to further understand what this ''one flesh'' is lets look to something outside the marriage union....

Do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her?
For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh."
(1Co 6:16-)

Paul shows that even having sex with a harlot, one to whom we arent married, obviously, is the same as ''one flesh'' in marriage.
Paul even quotes God/Jesus when he states..."For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh".

A man is also 'one flesh' or 'one body' with a harlot he is with (1 Cor 6:16) showing that 'one flesh' is not exclusive to the marriage union. So we see that ''one flesh'' is merely the sexual union between a man and a woman, married or not.
If anyone other than Jesus would understand what 'one flesh' was, it would be Moses. The man wrote the law, we can rest assured that he understood Gods intent from the beginning. That Moses were ever permitted to allow divorce/remarriage (as proven in Deut 24:1-4) shows absolutely that this perpetual 'one flesh' bond is nothing more than unscriptural nonsense. Moses had permitted a man to put away a wife just because she found no 'favor in his eyes''. She was permitted to REmarry.
*IF* 'one flesh' from the beginning were UNbreakable, then so it would be in Moses day, Moses would have KNOWN that if it were the case, and ongoing adultery would have been the crime of this woman put away and REmarried, as she most likely would have been.

Are we naive enough to think that Moses was sentencing an innocent woman to hell by permitting her to REmarry ?
All he had to have done *IF* one flesh were perpetual was tell the INNOCENT they couldnt remarry so as to not be in 'adultery' as some suppose today.
But he didnt.

Because Moses understood that this one flesh is not continued perpetually when a divorce has happened.
If the divorce is scriptural, then the bond is broken, ended....no adultery is committed when one REmarries.
Just as in Jesus exception. He narrowed the allowance by showing that a legitimate breach of covenant must be present, but He did not change the definition of divorce, nor did HE disallow remarriage in the case where fornication has happened. Adultery is committed now when a spouse is put away for any reason short of legitimate breach of covenant, and we then remarry.

Lets look at Joseph and Mary now.
Firstly we know that Jesus was not illegitimate. He was born to two lawfully married people. The Jews accepted this and called Joseph Jesus' father (many not knowing any different).

*IF* marriage was not valid without consummation....the two being ''one flesh'' as it were, then Joseph and Mary wouldnt be ''married'' and Jesus would have been illegitimate....without a lawful earthly father.

Joseph had not yet been with Mary before Jesus was born, yet WAS said to be her ''husband'' and she his ''wife'' or espoused (betrothed) wife. He was going to put Mary away when he found her with child, showing that she was indeed his ''lawful'' wife....if she werent his wife he could have just left her obviously.

What bound Joseph to Mary was not sex, as is blindingly apparent, since they had had no sexual union at that point, but what DID bind them was they were joined in matrimony, Gods holy marital covenant.

So when we look at ''one flesh'', we can clearly see that because of 1 Cor. 6:16 that ''one flesh'' is sexual relations between a man and a woman, married or not.
And since we know that we arent married to the harlot just because we make ourselves ''one flesh'' with her, that this ''one flesh'' is NOT any tie that is unbreakable.

There is no such thing as breaking the ''one flesh'' union, otherwise 1 Cor. 6:16 would show that every person who has had sex with someone they werent married to is permanently ''one flesh'' with them for life...and we know that isnt the case based on the context of 1 Cor. 6.

Conclusions:''one flesh'' is sex, plain and simple.... as proven by 1 Corinthians 6:16Sex is not the tie that binds, the covenant is...as proven by Joseph and Mary.What binds a man and woman for life is the marriage covenant..... which we know is a conditional covenant, for Jesus has said ''except''.

*IF* ‘’one flesh’’ is what makes a man and wife ‘’married’’ (as some see it), then Joseph and Mary were NOT married and our Lord was born illegitimate.
Proof that is not the case is in Luke 3:23, Luke 4:24, John 1:45, John 6:42. Jesus WAS Josephs ‘’son’’ as far as being born into a LAWFUL, binding marriage covenant.

Below is a quote from John Gill concerning his own views of 1 Corinthians 6:16.
Commentators can help us shed light on a verse, but never take their words as gospel truth, they are fallible men like you and me.
1Co 6:16 -
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot,
.... Not in marriage, but in carnal copulation, and unclean embraces, is one body with her

for two
("saith he", Adam, or Moses, or God, or the Scripture, or as R. Sol. Jarchi says, the Holy Spirit, Gen_2:24)

shall be one flesh;
what is originally said of copulation in lawful marriage, in which man and wife, legally coupled together, become one flesh, is applied to the unlawful copulation of a man with an harlot, by which act they also become one body, one flesh; and which is made use of by the apostle, to deter the members of Christ from the commission of this sin, which makes a member of Christ one body and flesh with an harlot, than which nothing is more monstrous and detestable.
The apostle here directs to the true sense of the phrase in Genesis, "and they shall be one flesh"; that is, man and wife shall only have carnal knowledge of, and copulation with each other.
-J. Gill
 
Back
Top