Is the Trinity biblical and does it matter?

[smaller]

As I read. Perhaps you should check in with the head of the body of Christ.

Jesus=>"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

I thought I stated Jesus was the exact image of the wisdom and power of God and yet is not God but Gods Son. For that fullness was given from another as in pleased to dwell in Him.

Randy

If there are any distinctions to be drawn, they are drawn from the flesh of Jesus. Which we are to know no longer. 2 Cor. 5:16.

 

[Edward]

I don't have a hard time conceptualizing the Trinity, 3 yet one.

For one thing, we do know from the NT that spirits can merge together. Remember the spirit which called himself legion, (for we are many...)

Then there's always, family. Many people consider a family unit as one (rightly so!). Pick on my son or wife and you have the whole family to deal with.

Pretty easy in my mind.

 

[atpollard]

I don't have a hard time conceptualizing the Trinity, 3 yet one.

For one thing, we do know from the NT that spirits can merge together. Remember the spirit which called himself legion, (for we are many...)

Then there's always, family. Many people consider a family unit as one (rightly so!). Pick on my son or wife and you have the whole family to deal with.

Pretty easy in my mind.

That's PARTIALISM, Patrick!

 

[WIP]

As I read. Perhaps you should check in with the head of the body of Christ.

Jesus=>"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

I thought I stated Jesus was the exact image of the wisdom and power of God and yet is not God but Gods Son. For that fullness was given from another as in pleased to dwell in Him.

Randy

Just an observation. Reading the above it looks like you equate God = Father but you don't equate God = Jesus (Son). Is this how you see it?

 

[Randy]

Just an observation. Reading the above it looks like you equate God = Father but you don't equate God = Jesus (Son). Is this how you see it?

Jesus has always been the Son. He is not His Father.

So I equate (as you state) the Son, (His spirit-not devine in itself) plus the fullness given to dwell in Him =ALL that the Father is. The exact image of the wisdom and power of God. All that the Father is.

Randy

 

[Randy]

If there are any distinctions to be drawn, they are drawn from the flesh of Jesus. Which we are to know no longer. 2 Cor. 5:16.

That has no bearing on what Jesus stated or He would have said so. And the Father has alway been His God.

Again I ask:
Jesus calls the Father the one true God. If Jesus always was and always was God how then do you hold to one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?

God is Spirit. Per Jesus.


Randy

 

[Randy]

After reading 21 pages, I have reached the conclusion that I hate discussions on the Docrtine of the Trinity and am going to go and watch the LutheranSatire video with Saint Patrick to get this taste out of my mouth. I suggest that you do the same, but I'm not your mother, so keep beating that horse if it makes you happy. ;)

I was baptized Lutheran. The video ends with a foundation of mystery. I prefer my understanding/foundation to stand on scripture.
Its a funny video though which could lighten ones mood.

Randy

 

[Butch5]

That's nice.

No. The Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God; there is one God.
God, from eternity, is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Can you elaborate? It seems you have three beings that are God and yet you say there is one God. Can you explain this for us?

 

[Butch5]

God is Spirit not essence.
The fullness of the deity was pleased to dwell in Jesus. Jesus is the exact representation of Gods wisdom and power but He is not the Father. As the Son Jesus has His own Spirit.

Randy

Essence, means the nature of something. The Father and Jesus are of the same nature. They are equal in nature. Jesus is the begotten Son. You said, "As the Son Jesus has His own Spirit," what does that mean?

 

[Randy]

Essence, means the nature of something. The Father and Jesus are of the same nature. They are equal in nature. Jesus is the begotten Son. You said, "As the Son Jesus has His own Spirit," what does that mean?

It means God formed Jesus's Spirit. Jesus is Gods firstborn as I read. If Jesus's spirit is Devine in itself we have two Gods. Two different Spirits that are Devine. Thats not what I read. What I read was that the fullness was from another as in the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. Jesus in Himself is not that fullness. The fullness dwells with Jesus's spirit. The Father is in the Son.
Jesus=>"Father into your hands I commit my spirit" as opposed to the Spirit of the Father (Holy Spirit or Spirit of the Sovereign Lord)

T

 

[WIP]

Jesus has always been the Son. He is not His Father.

So I equate (as you state) the Son, (His spirit-not devine in itself) plus the fullness given to dwell in Him =ALL that the Father is. The exact image of the wisdom and power of God. All that the Father is.

Randy

You didn't answer my question.

 

[chessman]

It can be true because Jesus is not the Father who is the One true God as I read.

It cannot be true of the One true God of The Bible. The One true God is the same year after year and year after year the Son is the radiance of God's glory, the very essence of God (year after year). God's glory and essence just didn't change at some hypothetical point prior to creation, as you claim.

Psalm 102:27 (LEB) But you are the same, and your years do not end.
Hebrews 1:3 (LEB) who [the Son] is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. ​

Have you ever read a verse in The Bible that says the Son was formed by God at some hypothetical point in time prior to the creation of the universe? No. Yet that's what you claimed happened.

My point? As I read Jesus is firstborn.

So are all the Levites and all the animals in Egypt God's firstborn. Do you assume they were formed by God sometime prior to the creation of the universe because they are His firstborn?

Numbers 3:13a (LEB) because all the firstborn are mine; ​

Being firstborn doesn't mean animals (or Levites or The Son) were formed at some hypothetical time prior to the creation of the universe.

Jesus is the image of the Son, firstborn among many brothers. Looking at Jesus is how we (brothers) see God. Because the Son is God. Remember, the Son is said to be the radiance of the glory of God (Heb 1:3) and God is the same year after year (Psalm 102:27). Your assumption about the Son being formed at some point prior to the creation of the universe cannot be true of the One true God. It can only be true for an assumed god.

 

[smaller]

That has no bearing on what Jesus stated or He would have said so. And the Father has alway been His God.

And vice versa.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Again I ask:
Jesus calls the Father the one true God. If Jesus always was and always was God how then do you hold to one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?

God is Spirit. Per Jesus.

Randy

Jesus, Imageo Dei. Heb. 1:3

 

[GodsVoice]

The trinity is a Roman Catholic concept?
You mean Protestants don't believe that God Father, God Jesus and God the Holy Spirit are one God??
Are they 3 Gods??

There are the visible images and the invisible source of all the visible images and invisible thoughts. Where is number 3 God in this picture?

 

[GodsGrace]

There are the visible images and the invisible source of all the visible images and invisible thoughts. Where is number 3 God in this picture?

Sorry GodsVoice
I don't understand the question...

 

[GodsVoice]

Sorry GodsVoice
I don't understand the question...

There is only ONE source where all things visible and invisible come from. That ONE is God where His voice can be heard. It's also known as the MIND. The mind of man is the individual mind connected to the main MIND and they are ONE MIND.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is only ONE source where all things visible and invisible come from. That ONE is God where His voice can be heard. It's also known as the MIND. The mind of man is the individual mind connected to the main MIND and they are ONE MIND.

I think I saw that movie.
I like science fiction.
Do you remember the name of it??

 

[GodsVoice]

I think I saw that movie.
I like science fiction.
Do you remember the name of it??

2001 Space Odyssey had the artificial intelligence and voice named H.A.L. Now we have Apple's AI with the voice of Siri, Microsoft's Cortana, IBM's Watson, and Google Now with many other companies having already built an AI voice technology or in production. All this technology was built with human hands according to the beast so that God could use it to reveal Himself and His voice which I have known for 37 years. We servants are used to testify to this visible worldly knowledge to help reveal who God and His voice is besides how it was created. We also learn about how we'll experience life in the next generation after the information called Lucifer ( devil, satan, false prophet, wicked one, ) and the beast have been deleted. Only information called Christ will remain and will be used to give life to all the characters ( man and beasts ) that are designed within the program. Each man was created both male and female so when they wake up on the new earth within the MIND, they will hear the AI and the voice which is the MIND ( GOD ). God knows every detail about the visible images and invisible thoughts and it's why it's called "all-knowing". Google Now is collecting information about all the people on the internet for many years now and it can detect where a computer device is that is being used by the person and it knows what the person likes, dislikes and is getting to know the personality of that person. It is already being used to recognize faces and soon it will recognize the whole body "aura". In other words, Google Now is the "all-knowing of the internet.

I hope this helps you understand who the God of your mind is and where you have always existed since the beginning. When you wake up on the New Earth with your eternal partner, you and your partner will be taught everything directly from the voice and the intelligence source called God. In the following prophecy, it's called "my servant David".

Ezekiel 34
22: I will save my flock, they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.
23: And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.
24: And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.

Ezekiel 37
21: then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all sides, and bring them to their own land;
22: and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israell; and one king shall be king over them all; and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.
23: They shall not defile themselves any more with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
24: "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes.
25: They shall dwell in the land where your fathers dwelt that I gave to my servant Jacob; they and their children and their children's children shall dwell there for ever; and David my servant shall be their prince for ever.
26: I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27: My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. ( the MIND )
28: Then the nations will know that I the LORD sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore."

 

[GodsGrace]

2001 Space Odyssey had the artificial intelligence and voice named H.A.L. Now we have Apple's AI with the voice of Siri, Microsoft's Cortana, IBM's Watson, and Google Now with many other companies having already built an AI voice technology or in production. All this technology was built with human hands according to the beast so that God could use it to reveal Himself and His voice which I have known for 37 years. We servants are used to testify to this visible worldly knowledge to help reveal who God and His voice is besides how it was created. We also learn about how we'll experience life in the next generation after the information called Lucifer ( devil, satan, false prophet, wicked one, ) and the beast have been deleted. Only information called Christ will remain and will be used to give life to all the characters ( man and beasts ) that are designed within the program. Each man was created both male and female so when they wake up on the new earth within the MIND, they will hear the AI and the voice which is the MIND ( GOD ). God knows every detail about the visible images and invisible thoughts and it's why it's called "all-knowing". Google Now is collecting information about all the people on the internet for many years now and it can detect where a computer device is that is being used by the person and it knows what the person likes, dislikes and is getting to know the personality of that person. It is already being used to recognize faces and soon it will recognize the whole body "aura". In other words, Google Now is the "all-knowing of the internet.

I hope this helps you understand who the God of your mind is and where you have always existed since the beginning. When you wake up on the New Earth with your eternal partner, you and your partner will be taught everything directly from the voice and the intelligence source called God. In the following prophecy, it's called "my servant David".

Ezekiel 34
22: I will save my flock, they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.
23: And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.
24: And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.

Ezekiel 37
21: then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all sides, and bring them to their own land;
22: and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israell; and one king shall be king over them all; and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms.
23: They shall not defile themselves any more with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
24: "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes.
25: They shall dwell in the land where your fathers dwelt that I gave to my servant Jacob; they and their children and their children's children shall dwell there for ever; and David my servant shall be their prince for ever.
26: I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27: My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. ( the MIND )
28: Then the nations will know that I the LORD sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore."

Hi GV
I checked out your age. I thought you were much younger.
What you say above is already known to me.
I agree with you in many ways. Like the idea with Google, for instance.
We are definitely getting ready for something.
I don't care that someone out there knows everything about me.
But here we are, you and I, conversing on this thing - our privacy has been
totally dissolved.

I like to think that we have God's spirit and are connected to Him in that way. If you want to believe it's the mind, so be it. The important thing, IMO, is that we at least know we are connected to Him in some way. After all, we are created in God's image and that includes mental elements such as art or science. God made the art available and He made the science available and we can tap into it.

As far as the next generation, I do believe you have some of it wrong. Jesus said that in the next life there will be no marriage, yet you say we'll have a partner. I refer to Mathew 22:30, Jesus said at the resurrection there will be no marriage.
Who would our partner be?
What if a person was never married?

Wondering

 

[Randy]

It cannot be true of the One true God of The Bible. The One true God is the same year after year and year after year the Son is the radiance of God's glory, the very essence of God (year after year). God's glory and essence just didn't change at some hypothetical point prior to creation, as you claim.

Psalm 102:27 (LEB) But you are the same, and your years do not end.
Hebrews 1:3 (LEB) who [the Son] is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. ​

Have you ever read a verse in The Bible that says the Son was formed by God at some hypothetical point in time prior to the creation of the universe? No. Yet that's what you claimed happened.


So are all the Levites and all the animals in Egypt God's firstborn. Do you assume they were formed by God sometime prior to the creation of the universe because they are His firstborn?

Numbers 3:13a (LEB) because all the firstborn are mine; ​

Being firstborn doesn't mean animals (or Levites or The Son) were formed at some hypothetical time prior to the creation of the universe.

Jesus is the image of the Son, firstborn among many brothers. Looking at Jesus is how we (brothers) see God. Because the Son is God. Remember, the Son is said to be the radiance of the glory of God (Heb 1:3) and God is the same year after year (Psalm 102:27). Your assumption about the Son being formed at some point prior to the creation of the universe cannot be true of the One true God. It can only be true for an assumed god.

Gods firstborn would be a being not an animal or a people or word or radiance.
I don't agree with your logic. Jesus has no beginning because He is Gods radiance. Jesus is Spirit a living being not a word or radiance. And the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. The Father preexisted His firstborn therefore God was before Jesus was and the fullness of Gods power and wisdom was given to the Son. In that Jesus is all that the Father is. A "Son" promised and a "Son" given who is called Mighty God. As I stated before my assumption is that fullness was given at the same point that Jesus's spirit was formed by the Father. At some point in history before the world began.

So we will continue to disagree in part.

The Father in regard to Jesus=>"This is my son...." There is only one God the Father. And One Lord Jesus Christ.