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JLB said:
Good question.

Let's look at some language that may answer it.

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-- as I also have received from My Father;
Revelation 2:26-27

Notice the phrase "rule all nations with a rod of iron", is associated with those that overcome, which is the very language used in Revelation 12:5, and is associated with the Manchild.

5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Revelation 12:5

Furthermore we see similar language, that is associated with the last half of this verse as well, which says; caught up to God and His throne, in Revelation 3:21

21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Revelation 3:21

When reading Revelation 12:5 and seeing this language, you would certainly think that this could only apply to Jesus!

Those that have been conformed to His Image to the degree that He Himself is living His Life through them.

So, in that regard it is Jesus.


JLB
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Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it and you.
 
I almost think we are ready to bring an end to this thread. Right now, the majority of posters are post-trib, including myself. Unless others post opposing views, I will re-cap all of our findings w/verses and draft up the threads theology.
 
Chopper said:
I almost think we are ready to bring an end to this thread. Right now, the majority of posters are post-trib, including myself. Unless others post opposing views, I will re-cap all of our findings w/verses and draft up the threads theology.
Click to expand...
Bless you, Brother!
 
The siege of Jerusalem was about 3 1/2 years.... Chopper have you ever read the history written by Josephus. His writing are a historical account of the 70 ad time frame.. some interesting stuff in a historical sense
 
reba said:
The siege of Jerusalem was about 3 1/2 years.... Chopper have you ever read the history written by Josephus. His writing are a historical account of the 70 ad time frame.. some interesting stuff in a historical sense
Click to expand...

No I have not. How would I read it? Would I have to purchase a book on his historical notes?
 
Chopper said:
No I have not. How would I read it? Would I have to purchase a book on his historical notes?
Click to expand...

Here they are for free. :)

http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/


Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 
Deborah13 said:
Here they are for free. :)

http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/


Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Click to expand...
Thank you Deborah, I will check into that website. Boy, from little I have studied about the destruction of Jerusalem, it got hammered!
 
reba said:
The siege of Jerusalem was about 3 1/2 years.... Chopper have you ever read the history written by Josephus. His writing are a historical account of the 70 ad time frame.. some interesting stuff in a historical sense
Click to expand...

Reba, was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD done by Titus?
 
Hehe I am old but i wasn't there :) The Roman army takes hold of Jerusalem it takes them a while to concore her. pretty ugly in the gates... Odd how much coincides then the times laid out in Matt by Jesus.... Not the first time a worldly army had been used by God... Not being good with names Chopper i will locate some sites... specially names i cant pronounce...
 
reba said:
Please note i have not studied these sites and am only posting them for a look at the history.... make your own judgement s

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/prophecy/70ad/sermon.php?gclid=CI7zleyot7oCFbFxQgodnQ0Avg... item 5 is a time line


http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/JOSEPHUS.HTM .. look under the "war of the Jews"



I thought the works of Josephus had been posted here by TOB but i cant find them ..
Click to expand...

The one I posted above to Chopper has The War of the Jews, The Antiquities, and I think something else, too.
 
I am going to put together the Post-Trib position that those who stuck with the thread until there were no more posts, came up with. Therefore I'm assuming that no one else has an opposing view point. Once I put our theology together, I will post it to see if I have left anything out. I want to thank you all for participating in this thread.
 
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

When is the Lord’s Day? Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . . Things shown John according to Rev 4:1 occur after that.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.Since this Man Child cannot be Christ due to Rev 4:1, who can it be? First it might be good to figure who the woman of Rev 12:1-4 is. “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.” Satan was nowhere on the scene when Jesus was born to devour Him. It was near two years later that Herod killed all the children.

The following scripture altogether does not fit the “Great red dragon” standing before the woman.

Mat 2:11 And when they (The wise men) were come into the house (Not the manger), they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Who is the Man Child that appears in heaven after Rev 4:1 before the tribulation begins? Who are the one hundred and forty-four thousand? Rev 14:4-5 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Have you considered the five wise virgins and their place with God? Why is there ten virgins and only five qualify for the best place and time? The same scene is repeated with every rank in the resurrection; our walk determining the reward.

I am surprised by this time you aren't devoured by Preterism; the influence is certainly prevalent. Read Josephus? Oh my! To me that is akin to reading Darwin's Theory of Evolution to understand creation.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
 
Eugene said:
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

When is the Lord’s Day? Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . . Things shown John according to Rev 4:1 occur after that.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.Since this Man Child cannot be Christ due to Rev 4:1, who can it be? First it might be good to figure who the woman of Rev 12:1-4 is. “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.” Satan was nowhere on the scene when Jesus was born to devour Him. It was near two years later that Herod killed all the children.

The following scripture altogether does not fit the “Great red dragon” standing before the woman.

Mat 2:11 And when they (The wise men) were come into the house (Not the manger), they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Who is the Man Child that appears in heaven after Rev 4:1 before the tribulation begins? Who are the one hundred and forty-four thousand? Rev 14:4-5 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Have you considered the five wise virgins and their place with God? Why is there ten virgins and only five qualify for the best place and time? The same scene is repeated with every rank in the resurrection; our walk determining the reward.

I am surprised by this time you aren't devoured by Preterism; the influence is certainly prevalent. Read Josephus? Oh my! To me that is akin to reading Darwin's Theory of Evolution to understand creation.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...

Eugene, if you would, please explain your last statement. I don't understand the comparison between a Jewish historian's account of what he saw and heard at the war zone and Darwin's Theory.
Thanks, Deb
 
Ok guys oops Deb you too :) the post below is a copy of Chopper's post the i moved the last bit of the thread to the preterism forum... Sill learning this system i could not get the ones i moved to stay here also... The new address is

http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...e-who-will-go-whos-the-bride-chapter-2.50792/

At this time i have no plans to close this thread....


Wow, thank you guys/gals I have have honored Jason in my heart, and because of that I am going to by Lhite Network">study the scope of preterism. I will go to the thread on that, then research on my own. I think I have an obligation, since it's an end time theory, and I really think Reba is, sssshhh, a rebel, thinking outside the box, to try and see her point of view.

Soooooooo Reba or Eugene do you want me to carry this to the preterist forum? Or stay right here.
Alive In Jesus
Chopper

"Eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."
"Let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding"
Click to expand...
 
Deborah13 said:
Eugene, if you would, please explain your last statement. I don't understand the comparison between a Jewish historian's account of what he saw and heard at the war zone and Darwin's Theory.
Thanks, Deb
Click to expand...
Hi dear sister. It was more of disbelief in Josephus than belief that Josephus and Darwin have any connection other than I do not believe either of them, and people near make a doctrine out of Josephus' writing. The following is a quote from Josephus.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/chariots-in-clouds.html
"I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable. A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary."

I agree with you Josephus; I dismiss it as your imagination. I'm to wonder why all Rome didn't see these things and write of them.
 
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