Jesus is not YHVH

[JLB]

To your statement : "I guess you simply don't understand that YHWH can not be pronounced."
I replied: "Actually, it was pronounceable in the original Hebrew but the WRITTEN language did not have any vowels."

I assumed that, from my comment, you would understand that the WRITTEN language had no symbols to represent the vowel sounds which existed in the SPOKEN language.

My mistake.

If the lack of vowel symbols rendered the word YHWH unpronounceable, then that same lack of vowel symbols would render ALL of ancient Hebrew words unpronounceable making speech in ancient Hebrew impossible.

Written language is invented AFTER spoken language is already in use. In the case of ancient Hebrew, the early form of the language had no symbols for vowels such as the symbols, "a, e, I, o, u, and y" in English; they were a later development. The lack of vowel symbols does not indicate an inability to pronounce a word but, rather, it reflects the early stage of the development of the WRITTEN language.

YHWH can not be pronounced.

The name of the Lord [YHWH] is Jesus, which is the name above every name.

This is what is called the Gospel Truth.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

YHWH can not be pronounced.
The name of the Lord [YHWH] is Jesus, which is the name above every name.
This is what is called the Gospel Truth.
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13
JLB

Your comment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the message to which you responded.
My comment was about language, not theology.

Here, try again:
"If the lack of vowel symbols rendered the word YHWH unpronounceable, then that same lack of vowel symbols would render ALL of ancient Hebrew words unpronounceable making speech in ancient Hebrew impossible.

Written language is invented AFTER spoken language is already in use. In the case of ancient Hebrew, the early form of the language had no symbols for vowels such as the symbols, "a, e, I, o, u, and y" in English; they were a later development. The lack of vowel symbols does not indicate an inability to pronounce a word but, rather, it reflects the early stage of the development of the WRITTEN language."

 

[OzSpen]

I have been trying to get that idea across but have not succeeded in overcoming the dedication to the personal theology as proclaimed by the universal church of "what seems good to ME."
Blessings on your tribe.
iakov the fool

You and I know that 'concept' and 'it' cannot refer to the personal God because they are referential to the inanimate or impersonal. Just talking about this seems to create a cloud of misunderstanding or distortion among some.

My tribe will be having a special birthday gathering for me in a couple months. It's one of those big events in Oz's lifespan.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Your comment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the message to which you responded.
My comment was about language, not theology.

Here, try again:
"If the lack of vowel symbols rendered the word YHWH unpronounceable, then that same lack of vowel symbols would render ALL of ancient Hebrew words unpronounceable making speech in ancient Hebrew impossible.

Written language is invented AFTER spoken language is already in use. In the case of ancient Hebrew, the early form of the language had no symbols for vowels such as the symbols, "a, e, I, o, u, and y" in English; they were a later development. The lack of vowel symbols does not indicate an inability to pronounce a word but, rather, it reflects the early stage of the development of the WRITTEN language."

Well stated, Jim. It's as clear as crystal to me.

 

[JLB]

Your comment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the message to which you responded.
My comment was about language, not theology.

Here, try again:
"If the lack of vowel symbols rendered the word YHWH unpronounceable, then that same lack of vowel symbols would render ALL of ancient Hebrew words unpronounceable making speech in ancient Hebrew impossible.

Written language is invented AFTER spoken language is already in use. In the case of ancient Hebrew, the early form of the language had no symbols for vowels such as the symbols, "a, e, I, o, u, and y" in English; they were a later development. The lack of vowel symbols does not indicate an inability to pronounce a word but, rather, it reflects the early stage of the development of the WRITTEN language."

All you seem to be able to contribute is opinion about something that is based on commentary, and is completely irrelevant to the subject: Jesus is not YHWH.

Confessing Jesus as Lord [YHWH] is the foundation of our faith and salvation, as taught in the scripture.

The name of the Lord [YHWH] is Jesus, which is the name above every name.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13


This is what is called: The Gospel Truth.

The question for you is: Do you confess Jesus as Lord [YHWH].

Yes or No?



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

You and I know that 'concept' and 'it' cannot refer to the personal God because they are referential to the inanimate or impersonal. Just talking about this seems to create a cloud of misunderstanding or distortion among some.

My tribe will be having a special birthday gathering for me in a couple months. It's one of those big events in Oz's lifespan.

Oz

Somehow, I will be turning 71 this year. I don't remember getting that old..............

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

All you seem to be able to contribute is opinion about something that is based on commentary, and is completely irrelevant to the subject: Jesus is not YHWH.

Confessing Jesus as Lord [YHWH] is the foundation of our faith and salvation, as taught in the scripture.

The name of the Lord [YHWH] is Jesus, which is the name above every name.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13


This is what is called: The Gospel Truth.

The question for you is: Do you confess Jesus as Lord [YHWH].

Yes or No?



JLB

Yes I believe Jesus is YHWH.
No question about it.
Jesus saves.
Only YHWH can save.

 

[Jim Parker]

(1) All you seem to be able to contribute is opinion about something that is based on commentary, and is completely irrelevant to the subject: Jesus is not YHWH.
(2) Confessing Jesus as Lord [YHWH] is the foundation of our faith and salvation, as taught in the scripture.
(3) The name of the Lord [YHWH] is Jesus, which is the name above every name.
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13
(4) This is what is called: The Gospel Truth.
(5) The question for you is: Do you confess Jesus as Lord [YHWH].
Yes or No?
JLB

(1) You said that YHWH could not be pronounced. I responded to that statement twice now but you have not understood.
(2) That is another topic to which I have previously responded. You didn't get it.
(3) ibid
(4) It's some of the Gospel truth but you have distorted it to make Jesus the entire Trinity (Yahweh) rather than the Son.
(5) I confess Jesus is LORD (Gr: κύριος, Eng: kyrios) as the scriptures state, not "YHWH" as you state. ('cause you're not scripture.)
see: Rom 10:9, 1Co 12:3
See also: Acts 28:31, Rom 1:4, 7; 13:14; 15:6, 30; 1Cor1:3, 10; 6:11;8:6; 2Cor1:2, 3; 4:5; 13:14; Gal 1:3; 6:14, 18; Eph 1:2, 3, 17; 6:23; Phl 1:2; 2:11; 3:20; 1Th 1:1, 3; 5:23; 2Th1:1, 2, 12; 2:1, 16,; 3:6, 12 1Ti 1:2, 14; 6:3 2Ti 1:2; Phm 1:3; Jas 1:1; 2:1; 1Pe 1:3; 2Pe 1:8, 11; 2:20; 3:18; Jde 1:4, 25

 

[markathome]

Quit Worshipping Letters YHWH as Idols like the heathens do & focus on Christ Jesus the Alpha & Omega!

Head trauma can effect people's judgement ya know

 

[Free]

I'll repost something that I've posted at least once previously in this thread:

P1 One of the names of God is YHWH.
P2 The Father is God.
P3 The Son is God.
P4 The Holy Spirit is God.

C1 The Father is YHWH.
C2 The Son is YHWH.
C3 The Holy Spirit is YHWH.

They are, of course, all distinct from each other.

 

[Jim Parker]

Quit Worshipping Letters YHWH as Idols like the heathens do & focus on Christ Jesus the Alpha & Omega!
Head trauma can effect people's judgement ya know

"Jesus is YHWH" is not my mantra.
I don't think anyone is "worshiping letters." I have been attempting to explain that saying Jesus is Yahweh is conflating two separate concepts of God but not having much luck. Oh, well...

 

[Jim Parker]

I'll repost something that I've posted at least once previously in this thread:

P1 One of the names of God is YHWH.
P2 The Father is God.
P3 The Son is God.
P4 The Holy Spirit is God.

C1 The Father is YHWH.
C2 The Son is YHWH.
C3 The Holy Spirit is YHWH.

They are, of course, all distinct from each other.

The name "Yahweh" reflects an ancient Hebrew understanding of God from a period prior to the revelation of God as Trinity. We need to understand that God's self-revelation was progressive from Elohiym (Gen 1:1) and Yahweh Elohiym (Gen 2:4) to Trinity. (Nicaea and Constantinople) Therefore, while your statements are generally correct from a perspective of being able to "look back" from the perspective of NT revelation, technically, none of the individual persons of the Trinity are not equivalent to (=) the ancient Hebrew understanding of God as Yahweh.

It would be more precise to say, "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit together are Yahweh." but that is still somewhat like saying that the covered wagons of the USA's western expansion are equivalent to the SUVs of Ford, GM and Chrysler.

iakov the fool

 

[Free]

The name "Yahweh" reflects an ancient Hebrew understanding of God from a period prior to the revelation of God as Trinity. We need to understand that God's self-revelation was progressive from Elohiym (Gen 1:1) and Yahweh Elohiym (Gen 2:4) to Trinity. (Nicaea and Constantinople) Therefore, while your statements are generally correct from a perspective of being able to "look back" from the perspective of NT revelation, technically, none of the individual persons of the Trinity are not equivalent to (=) the ancient Hebrew understanding of God as Yahweh.

It would be more precise to say, "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit together are Yahweh." but that is still somewhat like saying that the covered wagons of the USA's western expansion are equivalent to the SUVs of Ford, GM and Chrysler.

iakov the fool

I just don't see how progressive revelation has any bearing on the issue. The Son existed in the OT but that he may not have been directly revealed as part of a triune God does not mean that he is not YHWH. Of course it is more precise to say that all three together are YHWH, just as it is more precise to say that all three together are God, but that doesn't mean we can't believe that Jesus is also God.

Anyway, this thread gives me a headache, just the fact that it is still going.

 

[Jim Parker]

I just don't see how progressive revelation has any bearing on the issue.

AH! Then I have not made my point clear.

The Son existed in the OT but that he may not have been directly revealed as part of a triune God does not mean that he is not YHWH. Of course it is more precise to say that all three together are YHWH, just as it is more precise to say that all three together are God, but that doesn't mean we can't believe that Jesus is also God.

Exactly! Thank you.
That is the point I have been trying to get across.

Anyway, this thread gives me a headache, just the fact that it is still going.

Amen

 

[JLB]

It's some of the Gospel truth but you have distorted it to make Jesus the entire Trinity (Yahweh) rather than the Son.

The Gospel truth by which a person is saved, is confessing Jesus as Lord (YHWH).

It's just that simple.

Here read it for yourself.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

whoever calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved.

That's a direct quote from Joel 2.

Jesus is the name of YHWH.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced.
Zechariah 12:10

Who spoke these words through the mouth of Zechariah...then they will look on Me whom they pierced.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes I believe Jesus is YHWH.
No question about it.
Jesus saves.
Only YHWH can save.

Rollo for Vice President!

You'll make a great VP under the first woman POTUS.

Reba!!!!

 

[Jim Parker]

The Gospel truth by which a person is saved, is confessing Jesus as Lord (YHWH).

That's "KYRIOS IESUS", not "YESHUAH YHWH."
But then you've been shown that multiple times, now, and haven't seen it.

whoever calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved.
That's a direct quote from Joel 2.
Jesus is the name of YHWH.

The name "Jesus" does have the same root as Yahweh.
But that does not mean the the person named Jesus = Yahweh. (Is Jesus Hernandez also Yahweh?)
Jesus is the name given to the son of Mary; He is the Logos made flesh (the man/God Jesus of Nazareth).
Jesus is not "Yahweh made flesh" because Yahweh was never "made flesh."
The LOGOS was made flesh. (John 1:14)

whoever calls on the name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved.[/QUOTE]

Wrong again. (Not about calling upon the Name of the Lord and being saved, but that "Lord = Yahweh.")

What the sola scriptura says is:
Πᾶς γὰρ ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται
(for whoever calls upon the name of the Lord (KURIOU) will be saved.)

And, one more time:
When Paul quoted the OT, He quoted from the LXX. (which is written in Greek, not Hebrew)
The name "KYRIOS" in the LXX is the Greek rendering of "Yahweh Elohiym", not "Yahweh."
So when Paul used the word "KYRIOS" when quoting an OT passage, he used that Greek rendering of "Yahweh Elohiym." (Not "Yahweh")

 

[Randy]

Who is God?

How I believe Jesus would answer your question.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

I believe God made the creation through the Son. The writer Hebrews supports that view without taking anything away from the Son.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

I believe the Father (God) is the Father of all spirits starting with His firstborn Jesus. Jesus was before the world began and the angels of God but He is an offspring of the Father. (firstborn) The difference being God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in His firstborn and through His firstborn He made what He made. The angels of God do not have Gods fullness nor are they a exact image of the invisible God nor did God make the creation through them. Jesus is the One and Only at the Fathers side. Unique. The name He inherited is superior to all except the Father. Jesus is Christ the/our Lord. As opposed to God our Father.

 

[JLB]

That's "KYRIOS IESUS", not "YESHUAH YHWH."
But then you've been shown that multiple times, now, and haven't seen it.

Romans 10:13.
Is a direct quote from Joel 2, and contextually links the Lord Jesus, the same Lord mentioned in verse 9, as being the Lord of Israel, YHWH.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced... Zechariah 12:10

I ask you again.

Who is speaking through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet?


Here's a hint from verse 1:

Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him. Zechariah 12:1

Who is speaking through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet, that says these words....

Thus says the Lord who stretches out the heavens and the earth...
Then they will look on Me whom they pierced?


JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe God made the creation through the Son. The writer Hebrews supports that view without taking anything away from the Son.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

The Son created all things.

If you kept reading Hebrews 1, you would have come to these words.

You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:10


JLB