Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[FreeGrace]

If you expect me to answer your questions, then you will need to answer mine[/QUOT4]
I've already answered your questions, but mine have not been answered. That's the way it works; if you want answers, please go back and answer my questions.

and since you have side-stepped the last question I asked you

Since you've side-stepped all my questions.

I am going to ask that you actually answer the simple question I asked, which comes from John 15:6

When my questions to you have been answered.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Jesus says that the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

JLB

This quetion is invalid, as it assumes Jesus was speaking about losing salvation on the basis of producing no fruit. Indeed, if that were true, then our salvation is maintained by ourselves, which I strongly reject. That is a works-salvation system, and quite unbiblical.

So, the answer to your question is this: the question is invalid, and reflects an assumption that the Bible does NOT teach anywhere.

In fact, Jesus taught eternal security by His statement in Jn 10:28 in which He said those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish.

And, previously, in Jn 5:24 Jesus taught WHEN one receives eteranl life; WHEN they believe. This includes WHEN they FIRST believed.

So, eternal security is not promised at the end of our physical lives, based on fruit production, or continuance of faith, but the MOMENT when one believes, they are said to NEVER PERISH.

There is no explaining that away.

Eternal security is very plainly taught in Scripture.

There are no conditions for the recipients of eternal life to fulfill in order to never perish.

Just by the simple FACT of receiving the gift of eternal life, they will never perish. Jesus said so plainly.

 

[Nathan]

How would that be possible? Is this a suggestion that I don't know what I post??


I am quite sure I've already explained all that to those who read my posts.


I sure do believe everything else he said. But what He NEVER DID was contradict Himself.

So, when He taught that one HAS eternal life WHEN one believes (Jn 5:24), and He's the One who gives eternal life (Jn 10:28), and follows that up with "and they will never perish", I certainly believe in eternal security from the MOMENT one believes in Him and receives eternal life.

What I will never believe is the contrary view of some that some recipients of eternal life can perish. He never said that.

He clearly indicated that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish.

Right, the one who believes has eternal life. So the one who does not believe does not have eternal life.

Unless you base having eternal life on something you did(like believe one time), them you have to say that eternal life is given to those who currently believe.

Either it's based on something you did, or it's based on what He does.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is what He actually said: all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


Jesus said: those who have done good, to the resurrection of life.

Do you believe these words?

Please answer my previous question: what does "gone good" mean to you? This question has been "side-stepped".

Do you believe being led by the Spirit is being led to do good, or to do evil?

We've been over this many times. Works done in the Spirit do NOT save. The Spirit only does works in one who IS already saved.

I've wondered what "done good" means in your theology. Hopefully you'll oblige.

Without any explanation, it appears to me that "done good" refers to good works. So unless this is cleared up with a clear explanation, I will conclude that your theology of salvation is based on works, which is unbiblical.

 

[FreeGrace]

Right, the one who believes has eternal life. So the one who does not believe does not have eternal life.

It's even more than clear than this. Paul indicated that those "having believed" are sealed (Eph 1:13). So the same goes for salvation. Having believed, one has eternal life. As Jesus said in John 5:24.

Unless you base having eternal life on something you did(like believe one time), them you have to say that eternal life is given to those who currently believe.

I'm tired of these word games. Believing is "doing something", as in any kind of thinking. But just "doing something" is NOT necessarily works. But since this concept has no place in your view, let's just let it go, ok?

Either it's based on something you did, or it's based on what He does.

Salvation is always based on what He did; He gives believers eternal life and promises that they will never perish.

The fact is that salvation is based on believing, which is "doing something" but NOT a work as defined in the Bible.

I'm not interested in how anyone else wants to define work. I'm staying with the biblical view only.

In the Bible, a work is something meritorious and earns something, like a wage, (paycheck) etc. So it's more than just "doing something".

So, let's just let it go, ok?

 

[Nathan]

It's even more than clear than this. Paul indicated that those "having believed" are sealed (Eph 1:13). So the same goes for salvation. Having believed, one has eternal life. As Jesus said in John 5:24.

That's what I was saying, those who believe do have salvation. Those who do not believe, do not have salvation. There is no reason to add more to it than that.

I'm tired of these word games. Believing is "doing something", as in any kind of thinking. But just "doing something" is NOT necessarily works. But since this concept has no place in your view, let's just let it go, ok?

They are not word games. Yes, anything you do before you get something, and in order to get something, is a work.

If you receive something, without doing anything before hand to get it, then it's a gift.

Do you believe you have salvation before or after you believe?

Salvation is always based on what He did; He gives believers eternal life and promises that they will never perish.

The fact is that salvation is based on believing, which is "doing something" but NOT a work as defined in the Bible.

I'm not interested in how anyone else wants to define work. I'm staying with the biblical view only.

In the Bible, a work is something meritorious and earns something, like a wage, (paycheck) etc. So it's more than just "doing something".

So, let's just let it go, ok?

Can't let it go. People need to know the Gospel. And the Gospel is Gods work on our behalf, not based on ANYTHING we do.

Ephesians 2:8-10

Salvation is not based on believing. God brought salvation to ALL men long before anyone believed.

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

 

[JLB]

For starters God has to give you the ability to believe in the first place...and for believers Jesus said....“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life".

Please show the scripture that says God must give a person the ability to believe.

Each person has a choice to make, whether to say yes or no, to the Gospel message.

I find it interesting that many people choose to say no.

They sure seem to have the ability to say no, when it comes to making a choice.

Are you trying to teach us that everyone has the ability to say no, but only some have the ability to say yes?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Please answer my previous question: what does "gone good" mean to you? This question has been "side-stepped".

I have no idea what "gone good" means.

That's my answer.

Now it's time for you to answer the last two questions you have avoided.


Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

2.] Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Please show the scripture that says God must give a person the ability to believe.

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

 

[JLB]

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Did Judas come to Him?

 

[Cygnus]

Each person has a choice to make, whether to say yes or no, to the Gospel message.

Now show me a verse that affirms your statement.

 

[Cygnus]

Did Judas come to Him?

No. Judas was never saved.

Lets add to the previous verse I posted.....John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

That verse tells us Jesus knew Judas didn't believe and would betray Him.

 

[JLB]

No. Judas was never saved.

Lets add to the previous verse I posted.....John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

That verse tells us Jesus knew Judas didn't believe and would betray Him.

So Judas never came to Him?

Never heard His Voice?
Never followed Him?
Was never promoted from Disciple to Apostle?

You err, not knowing the scriptures.

 

[JLB]

Now show me a verse that affirms your statement.

Please show the scripture that says God must give a person the ability to believe.

Once you do that, then I will be glad to answer your question.


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

So Judas never came to Him?

Never heard His Voice?
Never followed Him?
Was never promoted from Disciple to Apostle?

You err, not knowing the scriptures.

Interesting post of yours....considering your post denies what John worte...and I posted in 731...I has come to my knowledge that is is you who have errored.

Hearing Jesus speak....following Jesus from town to town and being promoted doesn't save anyone. You see, belief in who Jesus is, is what gets one saved....and the verse from John I quoted told us Judas didn't believe.

I trust you stand corrected.

 

[Cygnus]

Please show the scripture that says God must give a person the ability to believe.

Once you do that, then I will be glad to answer your question.


JLB

I've already done that...here it is again

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

 

[JLB]

I've already done that...here it is again

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

This scripture say nothing about God giving some the ability to believe.

The words believe or ability is not in this verse.

Did Judas Iscariot come to Jesus and follow Him.

Yes, he did.

Judas believed for a while, because he followed for a while, then he became a traitor and was lost.


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

This scripture say nothing about God giving some the ability to believe.

Cygnus.....rolls eyes.

 

[FreeGrace]

That's what I was saying, those who believe do have salvation. Those who do not believe, do not have salvation. There is no reason to add more to it than that.

But there IS more than "that". Jesus SAID recipients of eternal life will never perish in John 10:28.

They are not word games. Yes, anything you do before you get something, and in order to get something, is a work.
If you receive something, without doing anything before hand to get it, then it's a gift.

I prefer how the Bible defines a work: effort that creates a debt, such as a wage for work done. Rom 4:4,5 -
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

It is the biblical definition that matters, not our personal opinions.

Do you believe you have salvation before or after you believe?

This question again? I've already answered this and showed proof from the Bible. Salvation is by grace, through faith. Eph 2:8.

There MUST be faith BEFORE there will be salvation. Paul's answer to the jailer's question also shows that believing is BEFORE being saved. Acts 16:31 - They replied, “Believe (aorist tense) in the Lord Jesus, and you will be (future tense) saved—you and your household.”

Can't let it go. People need to know the Gospel. And the Gospel is Gods work on our behalf, not based on ANYTHING we do.

And believing isn't a work, according to the Bible.

Ephesians 2:8-10

Salvation is not based on believing. God brought salvation to ALL men long before anyone believed.

Of course he brought it before anyone believed. But He only saves those who believe.

Want proof? Sure. 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

The wording is clear: God is pleased to save those who believe.

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

And, what does this passage have to do with the order of believing and salvation? Or the notion that salvation can be lost? Since those are the issues being discussed.

 

[FreeGrace]

I have no idea what "gone good" means.

Well, most would understand this obvious typo from Rom 2:6-8 for "done good".

That's my answer.

Now that the words have been corrected to "done good", the question remains.

Now it's time for you to answer the last two questions you have avoided.

Nope. I have no doubt my question was understood, but because of this detour, I'll answer your questions only after mine is answered.

 

[FreeGrace]

So Judas never came to Him?

Not in faith for salvation. John 6:64-70 proves that.

Never heard His Voice?

Never as Savior.

Never followed Him?

never in obedience of the faith.

Was never promoted from Disciple to Apostle?

Irrelevant.

You err, not knowing the scriptures.

Au contraire.