Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[FreeGrace]

Judas believed for a while, because he followed for a while, then he became a traitor and was lost.
JLB

Please provide the verse(s) that say that he believed in Jesus. So far, all that has been provided is inconclusive info.

Don't forget; IF Judas had been saved, and then ended up perishing, then Jesus' words in John 10:28 cannot be true, because He said those He gives eternal life will never perish.

So, how could Judas end up perishing given what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life?

 

[atpollard]

Please show the scripture that says God must give a person the ability to believe.

2 Corinthians 4:1-6 NASB
1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled [fn]to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this [fn]world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving [fn]so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants [fn]for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.​

 

[JLB]

Please provide the verse(s) that say that he believed in Jesus. So far, all that has been provided is inconclusive info.

Don't forget; IF Judas had been saved, and then ended up perishing, then Jesus' words in John 10:28 cannot be true, because He said those He gives eternal life will never perish.

So, how could Judas end up perishing given what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life?

You will have to answer my questions, that you have ignored no, for the last 3 Days.


Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

2.] Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?


JLB

 

[JLB]

2 Corinthians 4:1-6 NASB
1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled [fn]to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this [fn]world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving [fn]so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants [fn]for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.​

Nothing here about God being partial to give some the ability to believe, while disregarding others, because there is no partiality with God.

For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:11


Here is the context.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

This is accomplished by walking in the new nature in Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

This is accomplished by walking after the flesh, and practicing the the sinful works of the flesh.


It's up to each Christian to choose to live by the Spirit, or live by the flesh.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14



JLB

 

[JLB]

Cygnus.....rolls eyes.

Here are those who will receive eternal life:

The Apostle Paul -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

The Lord Jesus Christ - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


JLB

 

[MarkT]

I've never suggested just anyone. The context is clear from v.27 that "them" and "they" in v.28 only refers to His sheep.

My point, and Jesus' point, is that His sheep are given eternal life and will never perish.

So, recipient means all of His sheep, not just the faithful ones. All of them. And Jesus told us WHEN He gives eternal life back in 5:24; when one believes, they HAVE eternal life.

Those who do not follow him are not his sheep. And there is nothing about 'when' he gives eternal life in John 5:24

So, when John 5:24 and John 10:28 are considered together, we know that the promise of never perishing applies the MOMENT one first believes. That is eternal security.

You don't know that. I don't see the word 'moment' in John 5:24 I don't see the word 'recipient' in John 10:28 The fact is many believers will fall away, and of those who do not fall away (so they think), only a few are his sheep.

The condition for what, specifically? v.27 isn't about conditions for being His sheep. That was settled back in v.9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;

His sheep follow him. That's a true statement. Let's say there are a hundred sheep. Out of the hundred only a few follow him. They are his sheep. The others are not his sheep.

Jesus said, "but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep. John 10:26

So they don't choose not to believe. They don't believe because they are not his sheep. It follows that those who fall away do not fall away by choice. They fall away because they are not his sheep.

Jesus said the Father gave him his sheep. John 10:29 So the Father makes men and he gives them to his Son. They become lost in this world. Jesus calls them. His sheep hear him. They follow him. He gives them eternal life.

 

[atpollard]

For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:11

Jew or Gentile (in context).

Romans 2:9-12 NASB
9 There will be tribulation and distress [fn]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned [fn]without the Law will also perish [fn]without the Law, and all who have sinned [fn]under the Law will be judged [fn]by the Law;

 

[reba]

Reminder:

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[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please provide the verse(s) that say that he believed in Jesus. So far, all that has been provided is inconclusive info.

Don't forget; IF Judas had been saved, and then ended up perishing, then Jesus' words in John 10:28 cannot be true, because He said those He gives eternal life will never perish.

So, how could Judas end up perishing given what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life?"

You will have to answer my questions, that you have ignored no, for the last 3 Days.

Unlike your not answering mine. I'm still waiting for answers to my questions. If you want answers to your questions, please provide answers to mine.

Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

I don't care about a useless branch that didn't produce fruit. The farmer who threw the branch into the fire knew what to do with useless branches. But what does this metaphor have to do with salvation?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

What is obvious is that this passage is about fruit production, which can ONLY occur when a believer is in fellowhip with Christ. That's what "abiding" means. And it's a two way street, as v.4 says.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

2.] Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?
JLB

I'm still waiting for your explanation of what "doing good" means. If I get no answer, then just quit asking.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here are those who will receive eternal life:

The Apostle Paul -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

The Lord Jesus Christ - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


JLB

Why didn't Paul tell the jailer to just "do good" to be saved then?

 

[JLB]

Why didn't Paul tell the jailer to just "do good" to be saved then?

No one can do good without the Spirit of God within them, "leading them in the way of righteousness".

It is by the Spirit, we "put to death the deeds of the flesh", so that we are led by His Spirit.

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


Those who have His divine nature, empowered by the Spirit, and yet practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


It is up to us, empowered by the Spirit, to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

This is a daily work; the work of believing.

The work of Grace.


Taking up our cross daily.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Jew or Gentile (in context).

Romans 2:9-12 NASB
9 There will be tribulation and distress [fn]for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned [fn]without the Law will also perish [fn]without the Law, and all who have sinned [fn]under the Law will be judged [fn]by the Law;

The context is everyone, with no exceptions; Jew and Gentile have the same requirement.

“will render to each one according to his deeds”: "Each one" being both Jew and Gentile.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


JLB

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"Please provide the verse(s) that say that he believed in Jesus. So far, all that has been provided is inconclusive info.

Don't forget; IF Judas had been saved, and then ended up perishing, then Jesus' words in John 10:28 cannot be true, because He said those He gives eternal life will never perish.

So, how could Judas end up perishing given what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life?"

You will have to answer my questions, that you have ignored no, for the last 3 Days.


Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

2.] Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who do not follow him are not his sheep.

Not what Jesus said about it. John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Can anyone be saved and NOT have eternal life? No. They go together. Can't have one without the other.

One becomes His sheep WHEN they "enter through Me". The metaphor is about believing in Christ for salvation.

And there is nothing about 'when' he gives eternal life in John 5:24

Sure there is. Here's the verse: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

The "WHEN" is found in the red words. Jesus said whoever believes...HAS eternal life. So, believing is the condition for HAVING eternal life.

So, the very MOMENT one believes is WHEN one HAS eternal life.

If there is disagreement, please show from Scripture WHEN one is given eternal life.

You don't know that. I don't see the word 'moment' in John 5:24

It's always possible that some just don't want to see it. See above for why it's there.

I don't see the word 'recipient' in John 10:28

It's always possible that some just don't want to see it. Here's the verse: I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Once again, the concept of 'recipient' is found in the red words.

When a person is given something, they BECOME a recipient of something. How can that NOT be true??

When Jesus gives you eternal life, you have become a recipient.

The fact is many believers will fall away, and of those who do not fall away (so they think), only a few are his sheep.

So, falling away means no longer His sheep??? How does that work?

Instead, Jesus gave a parable about a shepherd with 100 sheep, and lost one. Was that sheep discarded with a shrug and an "oh, well". No. The shepherd went out and found the sheep. He still owned the sheep. That's the point.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me;

His sheep follow him. That's a true statement. Let's say there are a hundred sheep. Out of the hundred only a few follow him. They are his sheep. The others are not his sheep.

No. Those who know sheep and shepherding know that sheep are real stupid. They frequently wander off and get lost, etc. That's why Jesus gave us the parable of the 100 sheep. That's real life.

When Jesus used sheep to compare with humans wasn't a compliment.

Jesus said, "but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep. John 10:26

Right. Because those Jews didn't believe in Him. They never received eternal life. They are NOT part of v.28 in any way.

Those who believe in Him ARE His sheep. And He gives THEM eternal life, and THEY will never perish.

That refers to ALL of His sheep. v.28 can be denied, but it is true nevertheless.

So they don't choose not to believe.

Of course they chose not to believe. Humans are not robots. Consider these verses:
Acts 14:2 - But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.
Acts 19:9 - But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus

Again, the choice is seen in the red words. To REFUSE to do something is the same as to be unwilling. That's a choice. Make no mistake about it.

They don't believe because they are not his sheep.

This is backward. One becomes His sheep WHEN one believes in Him. Those who are not His sheep have never believed.

It follows that those who fall away do not fall away by choice. They fall away because they are not his sheep.

What??!! Of course falling away is a choice. Where does the Bible teach that humans are pre-programmed robots?

Also, the very concept of falling away indicates being joined to whatever is being fallen away from. Only His sheep CAN fall away from Him.

Those NOT His sheep cannot fall away, because they NEVER have been with Him in a saving relationship.

Jesus said the Father gave him his sheep. John 10:29 So the Father makes men and he gives them to his Son.

This sounds awfully close to the idea that God the Father makes robots. Which is quite unbiblical.

They become lost in this world.

No. They are born lost.

Jesus calls them. His sheep hear him. They follow him. He gives them eternal life.

Eternal life is based on believing in Him.

For example:
John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Once again, the red letters reveal what the Bible says about how to have eternal life.

 

[Cygnus]

The Apostle Paul -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

One of the problems people fall into is when they only read a portion of a verse..and strip it from it's context and force it to say what they need it to say inorder to help establish their theology.

This response is in response to that type of posting. Here is the vers in its completion:
6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality.

The following shows the verse is a bit deeper than you present.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
To them who by patient continuance in well doing,.... These words are descriptive of one sort of persons, to whom God will render according to their works; and must be understood not of the Gentiles, the best and most moralized among them; for they sought after worldly things, after human wisdom, and popular applause, and not after God, his honour and glory, nor after immortality, which is only brought to light by the Gospel; nor of the pharisaical Jews, who sought for righteousness by the works of the law, and honour and glory from men, and not from God; nor of any unregenerate persons, but only of such who have the true principles of grace implanted in them, whether Jews or Gentiles: now the things which these men seek after are glory; not the glory of this world, nor any from the men of it; but the glory of God and Christ; to be glorious within and without, by the grace and righteousness of Christ here, and to enjoy eternal glory with him hereafter.
Honour; not that which Adam had in innocence, and did not abide in; but that which is, and abides with Christ, and which all the saints have, and shall have.
Immortality; not the immortality of the soul, which is common to all; but the incorruption of the body, or the glorious resurrection of it to everlasting life at the great day, or the incorruptible crown, and never fading inheritance of the saints in light. The manner in which these things are sought is, "by patient continuance in well doing"; by doing good works, and by doing these good works well, from a principle of faith and love, and with a view to the glory of God; and by patiently enduring reproaches and sufferings for well doing, and by persevering therein: not that these things are to be had, or are expected by the saints to be had for the sake of patience and well doing; yet they may be sought for, and looked unto, as an encouragement to well doing, and continuance therein; and though not "for", yet "in" well doing there is a reward. These words do not express that for the sake of which glory is had; but only describe the persons who seek, and the manner in which they seek for it, to whom God will render eternal life, which he of his rich grace promised them before the world was, and of his free favour has put into the hands of Christ for them, and which, as a pure gift of grace, he bestows on them through him.

 

[FreeGrace]

No one can do good without the Spirit of God within them, "leading them in the way of righteousness".

So, when does one receive the Spirit of God?

It is by the Spirit, we "put to death the deeds of the flesh", so that we are led by His Spirit.

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

So, what all the verses that say that one has eternal life by believing in Christ??

Those who have His divine nature, empowered by the Spirit, and yet practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I agree, but we certainly disagree on what "not inherit" means.

It is up to us, empowered by the Spirit, to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

This sounds quite a lot that we in effect save ourselves, if "it is up to us".

This is a daily work; the work of believing.

Paul refuted the notion that believing is a work in Rom 4:4,5
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

According to the Bible, a work is action done that creates a debt owed. Such as one's work for a paycheck. The work obligates the employer to pay a wage (debt) to the worker.

Then Paul says "the one who DOES NOT WORK but TRUSTS GOD". There it is. Trusting God is NOT work. A clear contrast between the two.

The work of Grace.

All from God. Nothing of work from us.

Taking up our cross daily.

For blessings and reward in eternity.

Not for salvation.

 

[Cygnus]

Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

If a man abide not in me,.... Christ does not say, "if ye abide not in me"; he would not suppose this of his true disciples; Judas now being removed, to whom he may have some respect in this verse; though it may be applied to anyone who has made a profession of Christ, and denies the truths of the Gospel, neglects the ordinances of it, or walks unworthy of his profession: of whom the following things may be truly said, he is cast forth as a branch; that is unfruitful, and is therefore taken away from the vine, and cast forth out of the vineyard. This signifies the ejection of worthless and fruitless professors out of the churches; for such who are either unsound in their principles, or are remiss and negligent in their attendance on the worship of God, with the church, or are loose and vain in their lives and conversations, are to be removed from communion with the people of God.
And is withered. Some versions, as the Arabic, Syriac, and Persic, read this as an epithet of the word "branch", thus; "the branch that is withered"; expressing the condition the branch is in before it is cast forth out of the vineyard, and the reason of its being cast forth: but others read it as a new and distinct predicate of the branch, showing the case it is in, immediately upon its being cast forth: it may be cut off, and cast out with its leaves upon it, though without fruit; but as soon as ever it is ejected, it withers away. So mere external professors of religion, when they are cast out, of the communion of the church, presently the leaf of profession, which once seemed green, decays, loses its verdure, and that seeming fruit which grew upon them shrinks to nothing, and they become "trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit", Jde 1:12, their show of life, zeal, religion, and holiness, disappears, and all their external gifts, light, knowledge, and understanding, even in a speculative way, vanish: and men gather them; or, as some copies have it, "it", which best agrees with the word "branch". This was a common thing, when branches were thrown out of a vineyard, for men to come and gather them up for an use hereafter mentioned. So when unworthy members are put out of a church of Christ, the men of the world gather them into their society: or they are taken into the congregations of false teachers, who being sensual, and without the Spirit, separate themselves; or it may be read impersonally, "they are gathered", or "it is gathered": so wicked men, and Christless professors, will be gathered by the angels at the last day, and severed by them from the righteous, whom they will place at Christ's left hand to receive their awful doom: and cast them, or "it", into the fire, and they are burned, or "it is burned"; for nothing else is such a branch good for; see Ezekiel 15:2. This may respect either the gnawings of conscience, that distress of mind, if not despair, that fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation, which attend apostates in this life; or their being cast into the everlasting burnings of hell fire by angels at the last day, as will be the case of every unfruitful tree, of the chaff and tares.

Gills

 

[JLB]

If a man abide not in me,.... Christ does not say, "if ye abide not in me"; he would not suppose this of his true disciples; Judas now being removed, to whom he may have some respect in this verse; though it may be applied to anyone who has made a profession of Christ, and denies the truths of the Gospel, neglects the ordinances of it, or walks unworthy of his profession: of whom the following things may be truly said, he is cast forth as a branch; that is unfruitful, and is therefore taken away from the vine, and cast forth out of the vineyard. This signifies the ejection of worthless and fruitless professors out of the churches; for such who are either unsound in their principles, or are remiss and negligent in their attendance on the worship of God, with the church, or are loose and vain in their lives and conversations, are to be removed from communion with the people of God.
And is withered. Some versions, as the Arabic, Syriac, and Persic, read this as an epithet of the word "branch", thus; "the branch that is withered"; expressing the condition the branch is in before it is cast forth out of the vineyard, and the reason of its being cast forth: but others read it as a new and distinct predicate of the branch, showing the case it is in, immediately upon its being cast forth: it may be cut off, and cast out with its leaves upon it, though without fruit; but as soon as ever it is ejected, it withers away. So mere external professors of religion, when they are cast out, of the communion of the church, presently the leaf of profession, which once seemed green, decays, loses its verdure, and that seeming fruit which grew upon them shrinks to nothing, and they become "trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit", Jde 1:12, their show of life, zeal, religion, and holiness, disappears, and all their external gifts, light, knowledge, and understanding, even in a speculative way, vanish: and men gather them; or, as some copies have it, "it", which best agrees with the word "branch". This was a common thing, when branches were thrown out of a vineyard, for men to come and gather them up for an use hereafter mentioned. So when unworthy members are put out of a church of Christ, the men of the world gather them into their society: or they are taken into the congregations of false teachers, who being sensual, and without the Spirit, separate themselves; or it may be read impersonally, "they are gathered", or "it is gathered": so wicked men, and Christless professors, will be gathered by the angels at the last day, and severed by them from the righteous, whom they will place at Christ's left hand to receive their awful doom: and cast them, or "it", into the fire, and they are burned, or "it is burned"; for nothing else is such a branch good for; see Ezekiel 15:2. This may respect either the gnawings of conscience, that distress of mind, if not despair, that fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation, which attend apostates in this life; or their being cast into the everlasting burnings of hell fire by angels at the last day, as will be the case of every unfruitful tree, of the chaff and tares.

Gills

Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6



JLB

 

[JLB]

So, when does one receive the Spirit of God?


So, what all the verses that say that one has eternal life by believing in Christ??


I agree, but we certainly disagree on what "not inherit" means.


This sounds quite a lot that we in effect save ourselves, if "it is up to us".


Paul refuted the notion that believing is a work in Rom 4:4,5
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

According to the Bible, a work is action done that creates a debt owed. Such as one's work for a paycheck. The work obligates the employer to pay a wage (debt) to the worker.

Then Paul says "the one who DOES NOT WORK but TRUSTS GOD". There it is. Trusting God is NOT work. A clear contrast between the two.


All from God. Nothing of work from us.


For blessings and reward in eternity.

Not for salvation.

You will have to answer my questions, that you have ignored no, for the last 3 Days.


Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

2.] Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

Jesus says that if the branch that becomes severed from the vine, will wither, and is cast into the fired and burned.

• Do you believe a branch that is cast into the fire and burned, still has the Life it once had from the Vine?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branchthat bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6



JLB

I tend to agree with what Gills said. I've been posting commentaries to show you that when you take one sentance from a verse and post it to prove your theology....you run into problems real quick as you leave the original context behind. You have done this on numerous post and should cease.