Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[reba]

Searching King james did not find trusted friend ... which translation you using JLB

"Ordained" works in a general way

 

[ezra]

I don't believe God created Lucifer so that He could send him to hell.

I do believe God created the fires of hell for the devil and his angels, but Lucifer was not always the devil, but became the devil, or Satan... by his choices.

he was a fallen angle angles can not be saved do they have choices i dunno

 

[ezra]

Where Does Jesus use the term trusted friend to describe Judas..

if not mistaken in psalms i think familiar i can"t find it not sure if jesus used word friend when he told Judas do what he needs do

 

[reba]

God says He created evil

Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[ezra]

JLB i did a quick search on Judas When eSword pulled up the word Judas i did not see any of theses words in connection of the words judas sheep, of my household, ordain, trusted friend, Where Does Jesus use the term trusted friend to describe Judas..

Off to look up trusted friend..

Psalm 41:9
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. prophecy but not jeus words



Matthew 26:49-51King James Version (KJV)
49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him.

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. what did he mean by friend ..i will say it does not say brother

 

[reba]

Thanks

 

[ezra]

God says He created evil

read this https://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html

 

[KevinK]

Judas' real problem wasn't whether he believed, but what he believed. Judas thought that Jesus was here to establish an earthly kingdom, with the original disciples set to be the new chiefs-of-state governing the 12 tribes of Israel:

“Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones..." Matthew 19:28

But the Lord was here to proclaim a spiritual kingdom. An earthly political structure of any kind is a secular agenda, secondary and even contrary to God's true plan. Jesus even rebuked Peter at one point, as the spirit of impatience (spawned by Satan himself) grew among the Apostles:

"But He turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's.'" Matthew 16:23

Even more apprehensive than Peter was Judas, whose fiery anxiety must have approached that of a terrorist. Here was the triumphal entry into Jerusalem, a nice dinner, and still no sign of a new government to elevate the tribes above their Roman oppressors. He finally schemed to hand over the Messiah, not out of mere simple greed for 30 pieces of silver as is commonly believed, but in effect to force Jesus' hand, i.e. get this new political machine rolling or die. Judas later realized in horror that the Lord had no intention of saving Himself, indeed that His death was fulfillment of Scripture, and that he had just betrayed the Son of God.

(This is not my personal analysis, btw; I read it in a textbook while attending a Jesuit university.)

 

[dirtfarmer]

I dont believe we know if Judas was ever a believer or not .. I do not see a passage that proclaims one way or the other..

hello Reba, dirtfarmer here

John 6:70-71 , " Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil. He spake of Judas Icariot, the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."

 

[reba]

OK How many times can we read something .. Read the same thing over and over.. and just don't see it..

What i am seeing here is a condemnation of Judas from about the beginning..


Judas is not vindicated because he was part of the twelve as ,We are not vindicated because we are part of a church

Thanks

 

[ezra]

OK How many times can we read something .. Read the same thing over and over.. and just don't see it..

What i am seeing here is a condemnation of Judas from about the beginning..


Judas is not vindicated because he was part of the twelve as ,We are not vindicated because we are part of a church

Thanks

agreed even though there are more who feel he was not ever saved than those we say he was. this will go on and on and on and on till end of times

 

[reba]

No... !! tell me it isn't so..

 

[chessman]

This doesn't say Judas did not believe, but that Judas betrayed Him.

wrong. John says that Jesus knew who didn't believe from the beginning AND would betray him. That's Judas. He didn't believe AND he betrayed Jesus. Now you might not like the fact that Jesus knew that Judas didn't believe AND would betray Him. But that's exactly what it says.

John 6:64 (LEB) But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.​

Just like Jesus says the good soil was the one that understood the word about the kingdom, yet you say the rocky ground understood it too.

 

[ezra]

edited also
not osa again this will end up as a dead end

 

[reba]

Sadly yup Would be kinda interesting to a conversation with out those personal jabs over and over...

 

[JLB]

JLB i did a quick search on Judas When eSword pulled up the word Judas i did not see any of theses words in connection of the words judas sheep, of my household, ordain, trusted friend, Where Does Jesus use the term trusted friend to describe Judas..

Off to look up trusted friend..

Post 64.

Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted,
Who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me.
Psalm 41:9

Are you reading any of my post's?



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB i did a quick search on Judas When eSword pulled up the word Judas i did not see any of theses words in connection of the words judas sheep, of my household, ordain, trusted friend, Where Does Jesus use the term trusted friend to describe Judas..

Off to look up trusted friend..

From the first page:

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:16

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Judas heard His voice.
Judas followed Him.
Jesus knew him, and referred to him as a trusted friend.

Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted,
Who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me.
Psalm 41:9

18 “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ John 13:18

A reference to Psalms 41:9



Matthew 10 -

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
Matthew 10:1-4

• These verse's show us that Judas was a disciple.

It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! Matthew 10:25

• Jesus refers to His disciples, as being of His household.

• Paul says we are of the house of Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope, firm to the end.

5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Hebrews 3:5-6

• Judas was of the household of Christ, for a while, but did not hold fast, or continue to the end.

JLB

 

[JLB]

he was a fallen angle angles can not be saved do they have choices i dunno

I didn't say "fallen angels" can be saved.

Lucifer was not a fallen angel, but was created perfect in his ways... till iniquity was found in his heart.


Lucifer became Satan, the fallen one; The Enemy.



JLB

 

[reba]

Yes i do read your post when talking with ya , once in a while the phone rings or John calls and i skip a line or two loose my place etc.. .. ... the Psalm is the most direct .. the others are very general...

They do not show he was (for lack of better words) a real disciple .. like a disciple from the heart.. Because one uses or or just is labeled disciple or Christian does not mean they truly are..

 

[reba]

Here is a scripture pointing to some of why i do not believe Judas had a choice.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.