Justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

[savedbygrace57]

Sometimes Faith means the Doctrines of the Faith !

Sometimes Faith means the Doctrines of the Faith as Gal 1:23

23But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

In the Greek it is thn pistin The Faith, that is the One and Only Faith !

Also Jude 1:3


3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

It is also called the word of Faith Rom 10:8

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

The Mystery of the Faith 1 Tim 3:9

Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Some of the Doctrines of the Faith are Mysterious ones, Like Christ and His Church in their Mystical Union and Oneness Eph 5:31-32


31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Paul preached Christ as His Gospel Per Rom 15:19

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

1 Cor 1:17

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

And Paul calls the Gospel a Mystery Eph 6:19

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

So we have the Mystery and the Faith, the Gospel is a Mystery doctrine or doctrines.

The Deity of Christ, His Mediator Manhood and Son-Ship before Creation, and the Triunity of the One God are Mysteries of the Faith, The Doctrines Of Eternal Election and Predestination, and it is only by God given Faith, a Fruit of the Spirit of God Gal 5:22, that these doctrines of the Faith of the Gospel can be received, and so its the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

For it is given to God's Chosen. False Faith will charge these doctrines of being terrible and devilish. Particular Redemption is an Essential Doctrine of the Christian Faith, once delivered unto the Saints !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Heb 11:1


Is Faith essential to Salvation ? Yes it is ? Paul writes to the Chosen of God 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth also means Faith ! So yes Faith is essential for Salvation, experimentally ! That said, by this I do not mean freewill or that man has a choice, but faith is essential as a Work of God the Holy Spirit Jn 6:29, which He works in the Elect Phil 2:13

That word work in Phil 2:13 is the greek word energeō and it means:


to be operative, be at work, put forth power

a) to work for one, aid one

2) to effect

3) to display one's activity, show one's self operative

God the Holy Spirit effects Faith in those that believe, it is He at work in one when they are believing ! It is the same word in 1 Thess 2:13

13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. The word believe here is present tense, so it could read that is effectually working in you that are believing !

So it is the effectual working of God the Holy Spirit, of His Grace, Spiritual Power Eph 3:7

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

This verse and the one cited before it 1 Thess 2:13 are emphasizing the same thing, God the Holy Spirit effectually working within to fulfill His Good Pleasure.

Now Faith is not essential to get saved, but it is essential to be saved experientially !

Also let it be understood that Faith is not the cause of New Birth, but it is the fruit and evidence of it. John :36a

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The word believth here is a preset tense participle which means believing, so it means, He that is believing on the Son has Everlasting Life. The believing is proof of Eternal Life abiding or indwelling within , because of the Spirit working effectually within causing the believing, because its a work of God ! So a Person has to be in a saved state in order to be saved experientially. A person in a lost state cannot believe, because their mind is blinded by the God of this world 2 Cor 4:3

3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

One in a Lost state cannot believe the Gospel, because satan has blinded their mind !

This scripture is proof that a lost person cannot believe the Gospel, so the alternative is that one must be saved [in a saved state opposed to being in a lost state] to believe the Gospel of their Salvation and to experience their salvation by faith !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Corruption of Faith by men !


Man has corrupted Faith, by taking what is a God given Grace, that reveals to one that they are a Heir of Promise, Heir to an Inheritance, Eternal Life which is promised to a certain seed, and which is sure to them Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:18

For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

But the corrupter's take it [Faith] and teach it as a human condition one must meet to get eternal Life or Salvation, what a distortion!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit !

The false teachers of our day, have taken what is a fruit of the Spirit, of New Birth, Faith and have turned it into a human ability of man that he performs to gain eternal life, this is a distortion of God's word !

The Bible teaches that Faith is the Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The word fruit is the greek word karpos and means:


that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

a) work, act, deed

Faith comes from the Spirit, it's an effect of His work !

Now it does not matter that this verse is written to believers, of course it is, why should it be written to unbelievers ?

That fact detracts nothing from the fact of where Faith originates from, or where becoming a believer originates from, it is a work of God Jn 6:29

Also that Faith is of spiritual origin is seen in this verse 2 Cor 4:13

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Quote:
We having the same Spirit of faith…
By faith here is meant, not the doctrine, but the grace of faith; a believing in the doctrines of the Gospel, and in the person of Christ; an exercise of that grace upon the death and resurrection of Christ; and particularly a looking by faith in full expectation of the saints' resurrection from the dead, and eternal glory, together with a reliance on the power, faithfulness, and promises of God to support under the afflictions of this life. Now of this faith the Spirit of God is the author; this is not of ourselves, of our own power, it is the free gift of God, and a valuable gift it is; it is of the operation of God, and the produce of his almighty power; and of this the Spirit of God, in conversion, is the powerful operator: hence he is here called the "Spirit of faith". So the "third" number in the Cabalistic tree of the Jews, the intelligence sanctifying, which answers to the third person in our doctrine of the Trinity, is called F24, John Gill
Folks Faith to believe in Christ is not a human ability, but a Spiritual Grace of God the Holy Spirit, a effect of His giving one New Birth !

 

[MarkT]

Faith of Christ !

Many who are following the Man of sin doctrines have committed gross Sacrilege in this matter of Faith and Salvation. They treat it [Faith] as if its under the control of a spiritually dead sinner, as if it [Faith in salvation] is their freewill. However scriptural testimony of Faith is that it is a Spiritual [ For it apprehends spiritual unseen realities and it is supernatural] which means it is not natural faith of the natural man, but it is far above that, it is in a entirely different realm, for even the devils have natural faith, but a devil cannot have the Faith of the Son of God. Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

You must be dyslexic SBG.

Read Gal 2:20

It says, 'I live by faith in the Son of God' not 'I live by the faith of the Son of God'.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Holy Faith !

That Faith in Christ is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit [Gal 5:22] is confirmed by Jude terming it, " Your most Holy Faith" Jude 1:20

20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Praying and Faith goes together James 5:13-15

13Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Now a Holy Faith cannot be generated by the Natural Man, that is impossible ! Matt 7:18

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

[michaelt]

You have a contentious spirit....I simply don't feel like beating my head against a brick wall today.

I will point out that James is speaking to hypocrites who claimed a faith they didn't have. Read the verse in context, and you'll understand that the offering is what justified Abraham before men. You can ignore the Scripture that says Abraham's belief in the promises of God is why he was justified. Justification is not a process, but sanctification is. And you're wrong...Abraham was declared just long before Isaac was even born. His obedience was a result of his being justified. You can't pick and choose which verses you stand on, Joe. All the Word of God...line upon line. If you leave out one line, you end up with a distorted message.

Oh, one more point...you say the faith of Jesus wasn't even mentioned in Gen. What is the Gospel? It is the revelation of the righteousness of God through the faith of Christ. The Gospel was preached to Abraham when the promise was given. That's when he believed and was justified.

The righteousness of God is NOT revealed to us by our faith in Christ, but by the faith of Christ. I'm sure your translation claims the righteousness of God is revealed by our faith in Christ, but that's what this thread is all about, isn't it? If man's faith reveals the righteousness of God then no wonder so many people aren't saved. No one would know about our Righteous God if they looked at any man...it's only by looking at Jesus Christ that man can see God.

The faith of Jesus Christ is justifying me continually before my heavenly Father as long as I am abiding in Jesus Christ.

Habbakuk 2:4 in the Hebrew translation says, "the just shall live by his faith" and in the Septuagint it says, "the just shall live by my faith".

This scripture immediately precedes what appears to be a description of the anti-christ. Habbakuk 2:4 is also quoted in the epistle to the Hebrews in chapter 11 or 12, as is cited as a reference to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, it would seem that Habbakuk 2:4 is a Messianic scripture.

Paul quotes Ps116 apparently as a Messianic reference in one of his letters to the church in Corinth...."I believed, therefore I have spoken".....we also believe and therefore speak. What did the Messiah in this Psalm believe? From the context, I think it refers to his faith that his heavenly Father would raise him from the dead.

For myself, Jesus Christ is the author and perfecter of faith....everyone's faith in the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[John 8:32]

I sometimes think I was born to disagree, but we are not justified by faith. Saved by faith? Yes. Justified by faith? No...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Justified by faith in what His shed blood did for us. It paid the debt...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

handwriting of ordinances - cheirografon tois dogmasin = the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay.

 

[savedbygrace57]

All those who come to Faith in Christ, the True Christ, the one that only laid down His Life for His Church which He loved Eph 5:25, have

already in God's Eternal Purpose been declared Holy and Without Blame before Him in Love Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This should be is in the present tense, stating a simple statement of fact !

This is because of Christ, not because of anything they did or did not do !

 

[Justified not Petrified]

Excellent OP. Amazing what difference one word can make, ITO theological implications.

For those that argue that it is our faith IN Christ, I ask you, who is the author and source of faith? Is it not the Christ? It is His faith- all of it. Or faithfulness, if you prefer.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 10:17


Rom 10:17

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith cometh by Hearing [New Birth] and hearing by the Word of God. In order to Hear the Word of God, One must first be born of the Word of God 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


The word of God in Rom 10:17 is Rhema, the spoken Word, that which Christ speaks. Only His Sheep hear His Voice Jn 10:3,16,27

Now the Word of God in 1 Pet 1:23 is the Essential Word, the Logos, and we are born of Him by His Resurrection from the Dead ! Peter had stated earlier in 1 Pet 1:3

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

If you notice, the same greek word for born again in 1 Pet 1:23 is used in begotten us again in 1 Pet 1:3

It is the word anagennaō:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

So the Truth of Rom 10:17 is that Faith cometh by Hearing the Voice of Christ, and those who hear the voice of Christ are those born again out of His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3,23

The born again one's hears Christ's voice by the preaching of the Gospel 1 Pet 1:25

25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

This verse is a companion verse to Rom 10:17, the preached word Rom 10:15

 

[HisSheep]

You must be dyslexic SBG.

Read Gal 2:20

It says, 'I live by faith in the Son of God' not 'I live by the faith of the Son of God'.

Hi MarkT. Welcome to the forum.

SBG57 is not dyslexic: You are reading a corrupt text. Get a solid translation. You can’t go wrong with the Good ‘Ol King James. It was good enough for Isaac Watts, D.L. Moody, Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon and the Pilgrims; it’s good enough for you and me. If the language is initially a bit tricky for you, there are “defined†versions of the KJV which define the more elusive words (like concupiscence) at the bottom of each page where the words appear. Either way, the language is worth getting used to.

Don’t listen to the wisdom of the world which tells you that you need a modern translation. You will appreciate that many Hymns use the exact language of the KJV. “Seek Ye Firstâ€, “Silver and Gold Have I None†and “I Know Whom I Have Believed†to name a few popular ones. Also, some of the great Christian writers of the past, like Tozer and Bunyan use the KJV.

In a bunch of places in the New Testament (Gal 2:20 among them) the NT refers to the "faith of Christ". All of these citations are from the impeccable KJV:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:20)

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe… (Romans 3:22)

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (Galatians 3:22)

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)

In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. (Ephesians 3:12)

And this verse I saved for last because it is particularly interesting in that it uses BOTH phrases; “IN Jesus†and “OF Jesusâ€. This shows that there is a place and purpose for both phrases. These are not translation errors that need updating; they are important distinctions that we should strive to understand and preserve for our children.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)

This verse says that we have believed In Christ so that we may be justified by His faith.

It’s a lot to take in, I know, but the Greek (I’m told) also makes this distinction, and so we should not scrub it from the English text. Paul wrote it that way for a reason.

Again, welcome.

-HisSheep

 

[HisSheep]

Excellent OP. Amazing what difference one word can make, ITO theological implications.

For those that argue that it is our faith IN Christ, I ask you, who is the author and source of faith? Is it not the Christ? It is His faith- all of it. Or faithfulness, if you prefer.

Hi Justified Not Pertified (what a user name!) A big ol' Welcome to you

I agree hardily with your point. He is the author and finisher of our faith! (Hebrews 12:2)

But what does "ITO" stand for?

-HisSheep

 

[Former Christian]

MarkT

I'm not a KJV onlyist. But I agree with HisSheep that the KJV translates the verses he mentioned more accurately than the modern versions. From the viewpoint of one who knows something of the Greek. The phrase in question is a Genitive phrase. What the grammarians will tell you is that either translation (IN or OF) is legitimate. The modern translations are translations that are translating according to a specific Tradition. The same Tradition that created the rift between those who believe in Justification by faith alone and those who don't.

What the grammarians don't emphasize is another rule regarding the Genitive phrase. That is, when the phrase includes a person, it always refers to possession. Thus OF is more accurate than IN, in the verses referred to.

My personal belief is that one is Justified by the faith of Christ and the accompanying works of Christ. Not personal faith in Christ. One is put into Christ through personal faith in God and what he has provided through his Son regarding humanity. John calls this believing INTO Christ in such verses as John 3:16, where the Greek preposition used is translated in all translations as IN. The same preposition is used in Gal 2:16 , but is translated in the KJV as IN (even we have believed in Jesus Christ), instead of into, just as in all the modern versions. Water baptism is a work expression of faith in God. Simultaneously to the faith and works toward God, the Holy Spirit baptizes the individual into Christ (Rom 6; 1 Cor 12:13). In Rom 6:1-4, the Greek preposition, the same one used in John 3:16 and Gal 2:16, is translated accurately as INTO in most translations. One is then in Christ. One is then Justified by the faith of Christ by virtue of being in Christ, not by virtue of personal faith. Ephesians 2:8-10 makes this clear. To the one who is in Christ, Jesus is everything to them (1 Cor 1:28-31).

FC

 

[Justified not Petrified]

Hi Justified Not Pertified (what a user name!) A big ol' Welcome to you

I agree hardily with your point. He is the author and finisher of our faith! (Hebrews 12:2)

But what does "ITO" stand for?

-HisSheep

Hi- Thanks for the welcome!

ITO= in terms of

God Bless

 

[HisSheep]

MarkT

I'm not a KJV onlyist. But I agree with HisSheep that the KJV translates the verses he mentioned more accurately than the modern versions. From the viewpoint of one who knows something of the Greek. The phrase in question is a Genitive phrase. What the grammarians will tell you is that either translation (IN or OF) is legitimate. The modern translations are translations that are translating according to a specific Tradition. The same Tradition that created the rift between those who believe in Justification by faith alone and those who don't.

What the grammarians don't emphasize is another rule regarding the Genitive phrase. That is, when the phrase includes a person, it always refers to possession. Thus OF is more accurate than IN, in the verses referred to.

My personal belief is that one is Justified by the faith of Christ and the accompanying works of Christ. Not personal faith in Christ. One is put into Christ through personal faith in God and what he has provided through his Son regarding humanity. John calls this believing INTO Christ in such verses as John 3:16, where the Greek preposition used is translated in all translations as IN. The same preposition is used in Gal 2:16 , but is translated in the KJV as IN (even we have believed in Jesus Christ), instead of into, just as in all the modern versions. Water baptism is a work expression of faith in God. Simultaneously to the faith and works toward God, the Holy Spirit baptizes the individual into Christ (Rom 6; 1 Cor 12:13). In Rom 6:1-4, the Greek preposition, the same one used in John 3:16 and Gal 2:16, is translated accurately as INTO in most translations. One is then in Christ. One is then Justified by the faith of Christ by virtue of being in Christ, not by virtue of personal faith. Ephesians 2:8-10 makes this clear. To the one who is in Christ, Jesus is everything to them (1 Cor 1:28-31).

FC

I'm not really a KJO either, but I do regard the KJV as superior. Some of my reasons are external to the text itself. Like the fact that the NIV, NASB, ESV et all will basically be gone in 20 or 50 or 80 years (like the Darby, Weymouth, RSV and ASV) yet the KJV endureth . 401 years and going strong! The English language changes quickly enough that we will require a new translation for every generation. I think it would be better if Christians became familiar with the KJV language (It's not that difficult) and then we stay in better contact with the bible expositors of our fathers and grandfathers time.

Likewise, I am making sure that my daughters are learning proper grammar. I would like to do all I can to slow the (de)evolution of our language. Otherwise it becomes difficult to read the books that our grandparents read.

Example: Foods that are good for your health are not "healthy"; they are “healthfulâ€.

If you tell me that a carrot is healthy, I'll know that the carrot has bushy, full greens and a firm orange root.

Another example: If you are having a nice day then you are doing well (or fine). If you are giving to the poor, you are doing good.
________________________________
"How are you, Stan?"

"I'm good."

Icky.
________________________________
A better question for this answer is:

"What sort of fellow are you, Stan?"

"I'm good."
________________________________

I'm just trying to be helpy....

By the way Former Christian: I predict that you will one day be a former, former Christian.

I know that it can happen, 'cause I used to be a former Christian myself!

-HisSheep

 

[savedbygrace57]

My Sheep Hear My voice !


Jn 10:16,27

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Rom 10:17

17So then faith cometh by hearing[Hearing Jesus voice], and hearing by the word of God.

None but the Sheep are given the privilege of believing on Christ unto the saving of the soul Heb 10:39

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The Sheep are the "of them that believe unto the saving of the soul" ! Faith or Believing is only evidenced by those having Eternal Life Jn 6:47

47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

And has been Taught of the Father Jn 6:45

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

None but those drawn by the Father, First quickened, then lead into Faith Jn 6:44, and so Faith or believing will be evidenced by all that were given to Christ in the Everlasting Covenant Jn 6:37,65 !

 

[Former Christian]

HisSheep

“Like the fact that the NIV, NASB, ESV et all will basically be gone in 20 or 50 or 80 years (like the Darby, Weymouth, RSV and ASV) yet the KJV endureth . 401 years and going strong!â€

The translations you mention aren’t gone, just not in common use. To some they are preferable translations. The KJV has gone through a few revisions of its own. And there were translations before it that are just as good. The only reason the KJV has endured is because some people wanted it to endure. Conservative Protestants specifically. The KJV has its own set of problems and some that are the same as the new translations. The NIV is the popular translation of the moment. The KJV may be the translation that may be gone. There aren’t that many conservatives who favour the KJV as in former times. In my opinion, it would be better for all to learn the original languages. But that’s not going to happen either. And due to the practice of interpretation, that would have its own set of problems.


“Likewise, I am making sure that my daughters are learning proper grammar. I would like to do all I can to slow the (de)evolution of our language. Otherwise it becomes difficult to read the books that our grandparents read.â€

In some ways the English language has been devolving for centuries. Depending on what is held up as a standard. But mostly it’s just been a-changin. We have to live with that fact or go the way of the dinosaur.


“Example: Foods that are good for your health are not "healthy"; they are “healthfulâ€.â€

Healthy “indicative of, conducive to, or promoting good health†(Oxford Dictionary)

Healthful “having or conducive to good health†(Oxford Dictionary)

Seems to me either is correct. This dictionary disagrees with your distinction.


“"How are you, Stan?"
"I'm good."
Icky.â€

Good “functioning or performing well†(Oxford Dictionary)

Seems to get the point across to me. It may not be the typical response of thirty years ago, but that doesn’t mean the response is therefore illegitimate. But worry not. That phrase will probably become old fashion in due time. Only to be replaced by another phrase you won’t like any better.


“By the way Former Christian: I predict that you will one day be a former, former Christian.
I know that it can happen, 'cause I used to be a former Christian myself!â€

Be careful of predictions. Has yet to work for the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Pentecostals. Or the secular prophets of doom or of future technology. Sixty years ago they were predicting cars that would drive by themselves on freeways built specially for the purpose or fly. Seen that yet? Too bad since the scientific basis for these ideas have been possible for the entire sixty years.

First, your prediction would be in the wrong direction in my opinion. Second, I have reasons for being a former Christian. They aren’t legitimate for most Christians. But then, that’s to be expected. After all, they are Christians. Third, most of what I currently believe to be true is not the same as any denomination in Christianity. And if you bring up non-denominational, I will answer that they are as denominational as any other denomination with their own authoritative distinctive belief systems.

We’re way off subject here. But in what way were you a former Christian?

FC

 

[HisSheep]

The translations you mention aren’t gone, just not in common use. To some they are preferable translations. The KJV has gone through a few revisions of its own. And there were translations before it that are just as good.

I think you may have taken much of what I’ve said the wrong way. Either that or you just wanted to tear my post to pieces.
I didn’t literally mean that the NIV and RSV etc… are “goneâ€, as in … no longer exist… That’s why I said they were “basically goneâ€. I think you knew what I meant, though… You're smarter than that.

My thesis, to be more direct, is that I think our language (English) is changing too rapidly. It contributes to our losing touch with our predecessors and our cultural roots as anglophiles. That’s all. Reading a book like The Pilgrims Progress can quickly become tedious for young readers who have lost touch with 100+ year old English. I don’t think that’s helpful for our country or culture. Along with the erosion of grammar, the number of words in the vocabulary of our youth has decreased steadily in recent decades. Rather than religion, consider civics: It would be nice if our kids could read the Federalist Papers without struggling. You must admit, I make a good point.

Do you see no issue with a decline in grammar and vocabulary in the English speaking world?

“How did Barbara do at school?â€
“She did good.â€
I still say that this is icky.

My company installs large machines at manufacturing facilities, and I often hear sentences like, “The install went great.†Although I know what they mean, it still makes my skin crawl, like nails on a chalkboard. I’d be more comfortable with something like, “The installation went well.â€

“This needs repaired.†or “needs cleaned.†Have you seen that one yet? You will.

In some ways the English language has been devolving for centuries. Depending on what is held up as a standard. But mostly it’s just been a-changin. We have to live with that fact or go the way of the dinosaur.

You mean we are going to be drowned in a cataclysmic flood? God promised He wouldn’t do that again!

That’s only a joke FC. I'm a YEC.

When you say “Depending on what is held up as a standard. But mostly it’s just been a-changin. “ You seem to express a relativistic view of the changing language. And I see what you mean: As long as I can communicate with those around me, what does it matter? I’m saying that when the writings of C.S. Lewis are difficult for young readers just 50 years later, there is an issue. So, it isn’t so much the change itself that bothers me, but the RATE of the change. Likewise, when we need a new bible translation every 20 years there is a problem.

Be careful of predictions. Has yet to work for the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Pentecostals. Or the secular prophets of doom or of future technology. Sixty years ago they were predicting cars that would drive by themselves on freeways built specially for the purpose or fly. Seen that yet? Too bad since the scientific basis for these ideas have been possible for the entire sixty years.

Again, I think you’ve taken me the wrong way. I’m not claiming to be some sort of prophet. I’m just saying that you may just get re-converted to Christianity if you keep hanging around with Christians and discussing theology. You are knowledgeable on the subject, and that's a good start. I only mean it in a jocular sense FC, but don’t worry, I’ll be careful.

We’re way off subject here. But in what way were you a former Christian?

I was raised in a Christian home and believed (quite strongly) that I was a Christian. I ended up drifting into atheism, where I remained for 25 years. About 4 years ago, I had an overwhelming change of heart (Ezekiel 36:26 style). The change that this “new birth†wrought in me is nothing short of miraculous. Of course, this proves nothing to you or anyone else around me, but to me it is a miracle as powerful as Lazarus being raised from the dead. I can never again deny that power. I barely remember the “old man†and I don’t long for him at all. If He reaches down and touches you, there is nothing you can do about it. You simply leave your nets and follow Him, happily and willingly. If that hasn’t happened to you yet, there is no way for you to understand it.

You’ll likely ask, “How can you be sure that you will not drift again into disbelief?†I’ll say, Yes, people can “think†that they are born again when they actually are not. But they cannot be born again and not know it full well. A re-born believer can be sure of the change they have undergone by the accompanying change in their desires. This is a more powerful proof to the believer than their feelings, beliefs or their actions.

-HisSheep

 

[savedbygrace57]

Will Be Blessed with All Spiritual Blessings !

Eph 1:3-4

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

All those Chosen in Christ before the foundation shall be in time , blessed with all Spiritual Blessings for Christ's Sake or in Behalf of Him.

Faith and Repentance are Two of such Spiritual Blessings in time, that are for all the Seed !

God will Bless His Chosen with Faith and Repentance. Phil 1:29

29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

The word behalf here is the greek word hyper and means:

in behalf of, for the sake of

So believing is given as a spiritual blessing for the sake of Christ, man's freewill has nothing to do with it, its an effect of the Death of Christ !

The Lord also blesses or will bless His People Chosen in Christ with Repentance Acts 5 :31

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


Acts 11:18

18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Not offered repentance, not repentance made available, But Repentance is given so that they experience it subjectively !

They are actually Turned by God, caused to repent like Jer 31:18-19

18I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.

19Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Also where God gives one He gives The Other, they are Twin Towers, speaking of Faith and Repentance. God gives Repentance to turn His People from the lies they believed, and gives them Faith in the Truth.

Both are seen here 2 Tim 2:25

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Acknowledging of the Truth means to come into a Knowledge of it ! Which leads into belief in the Truth !

Thats why the Apostles Preached Repentance toward God and Faith in Christ Acts 20:21

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And God the Holy Spirit bestows these Spiritual Blessings on each Person Christ died for, He does it to them for Christ's Sake, because He bare God's Judgment on their behalf and secured unto them Eternal Life !