Let No Man Decieve You

[Biblereader]

Preterist said,


ROFL ROFL ROFL

Preterist, sometimes you outdo yourself! This is some of your best work yet!

Coop

Yes, preterist, they would.

 

[Biblereader]

Groan! I though that was what you were meaning. Why do you not see then in John's chornology, as he wrote it: no trumpet can be sounded before the 7th seal is broken, and no vial can be opened before all the trumpets have sounded? Why do you feel you have to change the God given chronology?

Coop

P.S. Especially when it makes perfect sense as he wrote it!

the seals are opened first, then the trumpets blow.
then the vials

Read it in Rev. Ch. 6, 7, etc.

 

[Biblereader]

SEE!
This post is a prime example of the confusion (God is not the author of confusion) going on IN THE CHURCH MEMBERSHIPS today!

Let me ask those of you who don't like the KJV of the bible a question.

Here's the alphabet: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

Now, suppose I have a student who has a speech defect, so when I teach that student the alphabet, this is the version I teach him:
ABCDEFHIJKMNOPRTUVXZ

My reasons for using this version: He doesn't understand how to say w, and, it makes him feel inadequate when he tries to pronounce G, and especially the letter L, so, I just decided to substitute letters I found in a chinese book of proverbs.

 

[Biblereader]

The fullness of the Gentiles has not yet come in.

Coop

Lecoop, you're blessed with wisdom from above.
Don't let others ruffle your feathers. You are correct.

 

[lecoop]

SEE!
This post is a prime example of the confusion (God is not the author of confusion) going on IN THE CHURCH MEMBERSHIPS today!

Let me ask those of you who don't like the KJV of the bible a question.

Here's the alphabet: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

Now, suppose I have a student who has a speech defect, so when I teach that student the alphabet, this is the version I teach him:
ABCDEFHIJKMNOPRTUVXZ

My reasons for using this version: He doesn't understand how to say w, and, it makes him feel inadequate when he tries to pronounce G, and especially the letter L, so, I just decided to substitute letters I found in a chinese book of proverbs.

Biblereader, it is fine to say that the KJV is a most excellent translation of the bible. However, it is NOT the original! Paul did not use it, nor did he write it. If you could read Greek, perhaps you could do even better than the KJV: for instance, try:

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus or
Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus or
Byzantine Majority

You could read them here:

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/index.htm

Or you could go here:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInte ... f/joh3.pdf

Have fun!

 

[lecoop]

the seals are opened first, then the trumpets blow.
then the vials

Read it in Rev. Ch. 6, 7, etc.

You said that right!

Coop

 

[lecoop]

I'm in the process right now of looking for a bible believing, TRUTH preaching
preacher, pastor, or minister.
The first thing I do when I am exploring a new church is, find out what version of the bible the Sunday School classes use with the adults, and then, find out which bible the preacher uses.

So far, the churches on my side of town are grossly decieved by satan himself, ... And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The deciever can easily trick the church goer who doesn't read his bible, nor study and apply the bible to his thought life, and daily life.
The KVJ is the only reliable, untainted version in existence today.
I've found that all KJV private schools, and churches, are right on target.

Too bad those churches are in other states.

Do you have a verse for this philosophy? On the other hand, why not follow Mark 16: the signs of the believer: find a church where these signs follow:

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

For instance, if the church does not teach and practice the mighty baptism with the Holy Spirit, with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues, RUN! They are not following this passage! If they do not believe and practice laying hands on the sick, and believing for healing - RUN! It may be that YOU will one day need a supernatural touch from God, and will NEED a group of believers that can pray the prayer of faith for healing. This is where you should START looking for a church.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

I think many believers stay at home, because their local churches have become tainted and ruined by another gospel. False preachers and false teachers are in large numbers in the churches today.
The problem with this is, people who know what the bible says, don't speak against false teachings, or, if they do, they're ostracized.
And, the false preachers just ignore the truth, and go the way of the "porpoise drivel church".

Bible reader, this is utter nonsense! Would one disobey the bible because he or she cannot find a perfect church? Sorry, but they do not exist! And even if they did, as soon as you or I started attending, it would no longer be perfect. There are literally thousands of good churches in our land. People stay at home, because they are deceived into thinking staying at home is better, or they are just lazy.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

No, it should read as the KJV says it. The KJV is divinely inspired, and can be trusted.
All other versions are wrong, one way or another.

You are mistaken, plain and simple. All translations today are works of man, and NONE are perfect.

How do you explain in Daniel 7:25, And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

and in Revelation: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

You are confused at to who these "saints" are. God called those under the law, "saints." Don't you think that some humans will believe the messages of the angels, found in chapter 14? This verse is not at all proof that there will not be a pre-70th week rapture.

There is much more in the Bible that tells you that the "rapture" will not happen until a large portion of the Trib has happened.
Notice that the Revelation verse is way over in Chapter 13.

Sorry, but I think you lack understanding of the book. There is NO verse that tells us the rapture will happen sometime during the 70th week. If you belive this, then you are confused as to when John starts the 70th week. By the way, where do you believe the 70th week starts, in Revelation? And where do you see the rapture in Revelation?

Coop

 

[lecoop]

What are you trying to say I'm confused? Do you believe the "so-called" rapture has taken place already? Or That Satan has already entered into the Temple and proclaimed himself God? Even John, after Antiochus Epiphanies did this, wrote about it, so it couldn't have happened yet? Please explain.

I am not sure that this post was directed at me. IF not, just ignore.

Why are you confused? Did I not make it perfectly clear? Here is my axiom on Revelation:

Any doctrine or belief that must change the chronology of Revelation as given by John, will be immediately suspect, and undoubtedly wrong.

In other words, not one trumpet will be sounded until all seven of the seals are broken, and not one vial can be poured out until all seven of the trumpets are sounded. No, the rapture has not already happened. Everyone will know when it happens, for perhaps 30% of the worlds' population will disappear! No, the beast has not yet been revealed and cannot until the rapture takes place. Antiochus did his abomination about what: 170 AD? Where did John write about it? I don't believe he did.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Relatively in the same time period, yes 6-6-6, all these come before the 7th's; sorry I dont have time right now!

I can hardly wait!

Coop

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

.... No, the rapture has not already happened.

Whew.

Everyone will know when it happens, for perhaps 30% of the worlds' population will disappear!

It has always been my belief that this in itself, will trigger a tribulation such as the world has never seen. Think about how many of these people will be sitting behind the wheel or at the controls of a vehicle. (Car, plane, ship, train) or at the control tower that handles such things. All disappearing all at one time.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Well, I'm still kinda busy. Sorry aint had time. I really haven't been following this post to closely, been to busy at home and with these catholic infidels to respond. Just so I'm update and I'm sure this isn't some sorta trick question Ill get back to you. I just got through reading Bullinger Commentary on Revelation and I was going to make a timeline for it, but I put it off. Anyways.

Why are you confused? Did I not make it perfectly clear? Here is my axiom on Revelation:

Any doctrine or belief that must change the chronology of Revelation as given by John, will be immediately suspect, and undoubtedly wrong.

In other words, not one trumpet will be sounded until all seven of the seals are broken, and not one vial can be poured out until all seven of the trumpets are sounded. No, the rapture has not already happened. Everyone will know when it happens, for perhaps 30% of the worlds' population will disappear! No, the beast has not yet been revealed and cannot until the rapture takes place. Antiochus did his abomination about what: 170 AD? Where did John write about it? I don't believe he did.

 

[lecoop]

Well, I'm still kinda busy. Sorry aint had time. I really haven't been following this post to closely, been to busy at home and with these catholic infidels to respond. Just so I'm update and I'm sure this isn't some sorta trick question Ill get back to you. I just got through reading Bullinger Commentary on Revelation and I was going to make a timeline for it, but I put it off. Anyways.

Take your time. Home is more inportant. It was not a trick question, and the rest of us will wait. I am interested in seeing what you find out from your reading on Bullinger.

coop

 

[lecoop]

Well, I'm still kinda busy. Sorry aint had time. I really haven't been following this post to closely, been to busy at home and with these catholic infidels to respond. Just so I'm update and I'm sure this isn't some sorta trick question Ill get back to you. I just got through reading Bullinger Commentary on Revelation and I was going to make a timeline for it, but I put it off. Anyways.

Thanks for the tip! I found Bullinger Commentary on Revelation online, and have been reading it! It is an awesome read!

Coop

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Well without getting into Chronology of the events of Revelation. We can surely see at the 6th seal, trumpet and vial's. That Satan and his forces are at there pinnacle of power, and that they "go forth unto all the earth". Which is one reason why it is said that 666 is his number. Revelation like the Bible has several levels of meaning. I'm working on a timeline interpolated verse study. Its not finished. Which will show how these events are all related and that when the Anti-Christ shows himself in the temple, kills the witnesses, later dies, is worshipped, and then the apostates led by the false prophet. there all around the 6th events. Christ being the 7th ends the 6th!


Rev 6:12 6th SEAL, GREAT EARTHQUAKE; and the SUN became BLACK as sackcloth, and the MOON became as BLOOD.
Rev 6:13 The stars (?FALLEN ANGELS, CAST OUT!) of heaven FELL TO EARTH, as a fig tree casteth UNTIMELY FIGS, when SHAKEN of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 The HEAVEN DEPARTS, every MOUNTAIN and ISLAND were MOVED out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the GREAT men and MIGHTY MEN (RENOWN MEN OF OLD?) HID themselves in the earth.
Rev 6:16 SAYING rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US FROM THE face of the THRONE, AND from the WRATH of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Rev 9:13 6TH TRUMPET angel sounded, a VOICE from the four horns of the golden altar which is before GOD,
Rev 9:14 LOOSE the FOUR (?FALLEN!) ANGELS which are BOUND in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 four angels LOOSED, prepared for an HOUR, and a DAY, and a MONTH, and a YEAR, to SLAY A 3RD part of men.
Rev 9:16 army of the horsemen (locusts) were 200,000,000.
Rev 9:17 horses (locust) have breastplates of fire, jacinth, brimstone: horses (locust) heads as a lions; from their mouths fire, smoke, brimstone.
Rev 9:18 BY THESE THREE (!FOUR?) A 3RD part of men KILLED, BY FIRE, SMOKE, and BRIMESTONE, from their mouths.
Rev 9:19 THEIR POWER is IN THEIR MOUTH, and TAILS that were like unto SERPANTS, WHICH HAD HEADS, AND HURT.
Rev 9:20 THE REST of the men NOT KILLED BY PLAGUES THAT REPENTED NOT OF the WORKS of their hands, worshiping DEVILS, and making IDOLS of valuable earth things.
Rev 9:21 NEITHER REPENTED OF murders, sorceries, fornications, or thefts.


Rev 16:12-16 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Anyways thats all i got 4 now.

 

[Vic C.]

I'm cleaning up this thread so that we may be able to get back to the original post, which is "Let No Man Deceive You".

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

My opinion is that siggys should not promote politics or political satire for fear of being targeted. 8-)

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

edit

 

[cyberjosh]

Literally, verse 3 should read "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

And this make sense because Paul has told them in 1 Thes. 4:13-18 about the 'Rapture', and reminded them in verse 1, that they would be gathered together unto the Lord at his comng. So, IMO, the man of sin will not be revealed until the Church/body of Christ has departed into the heavens.

I agree: the man of sin sitting in the temple of God to be worshipped as God, is the abomination that desolates spoken of by Daniel, and by Jesus in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14.

That's a very questionable theory. A departure from the faith is more likely the meaning, and such an event is attested to in more than one place in the NT, while I doubt you could find any persistant usage of "aphesteemi" to mean anything other than departure from the faith. Its physical rather than spiritual connotations can be observed in passages such as Acts 22:29 where two people simply parted from one another but even "aphesteemi" is used in the same spiritual sense as its child word "apostasia" in Hebrews 3:12 when it talks about departing from the living God (and "aphesteemi" is also used in 1 Tim 4:1). I think interpreting it as the rapture is an absolute stretch and is by no means founded.

~Josh

 

[Vic C.]

That's a very questionable theory. A departure from the faith is more likely the meaning, and such an event is attested to in more than one place in the NT, while I doubt you could find any persistant usage of "aphesteemi" to mean anything other than departure from the faith. Its physical rather than spiritual connotations can be observed in passages such as Acts 22:29 where two people simply parted from one another but even "aphesteemi" is used in the same spiritual sense as its child word "apostasia" in Hebrews 3:12 when it talks about departing from the living God (and "aphesteemi" is also used in 1 Tim 4:1). I think interpreting it as the rapture is an absolute stretch and is by no means founded.

~Josh

I'm in agreement with Josh and have heen over this s few times before. Apostasia, as it is used in the NT and the Greek Septuagint indicates defection. See Acts 21:21:

And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.