Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Butch5]

There was no discrepancy in my full statement.

OK, carry on.

 

[angel page]

I plan to.

 

[JLB]

I plan to.

The symbol you have on your Avatar is an Ankh.


JLB

 

[Obadiah]

Alright, enough. Thread closed for cleanup.

Obadiah.

PS, not directed at the above poster.

 

[Obadiah]

Opening the thread back up now after much clean up. Please, before posting anything further I would advise everyone to keep our Terms of Service in mind (you can read them in their entirety here), especially the underlined portions of ToS 2.4 below. Remember that there are many Godly men and women on both sides of unclear subjects such as this one, and we will not question their salvation or condemn them to hell for disagreeing with our particular views. Thank you.

Obadiah.

ToS 2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.


It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not flood a forum or thread with similar posts, or many posts in succession. Allow others a chance to speak and be heard. If you are responding to multiple posts in the same thread, please consider using the multi-quote feature. Please refrain from taking a thread too far off topic. Slight tangents are ok, but we prefer to keep threads as they have been defined in the OP (Original Post).

 

[angel page]

Speaking for myself, I was never intending to Troll this thread. Rather, my remarks were directed at the overall mindset of a community of persons, not this community, nor one individual member within, that afford inflammatory remarks and condemnation against Christians who adhere to the scripture that supports what has come to be known as, OSAS doctrine.

The implication that intends for those who are not Christian, and even those who are, (Edited, ToS 2.4, rudeness and accusations toward a group of members in violation of this ToS. Obadiah.)

 

[jeff77]

I don't believe in OSAS, but I personally think that there are far more cases of people who were never saved in the first place than there are people who choose to quit following Christ. Jesus doesn't quit on anyone. I believe that we still have free will even after we are saved. I think it would probably take many years of ignoring God to the point where a person doesn't even care anymore about being a follower. If there is a verse that says one can receive the free gift of salvation but not be a follower of Jesus I would change my mind.

 

[angel page]

I think anyone who understands what it is to be born again, and Jesus' words as relates to his sheep who know his voice, know that those who are truly saved can never quit Christ. While those others who believe they do are what are called nominal christians. They may have gone through the motions but they were never saved in the first place.
As scripture tells us.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I knew a woman who dressed as I described earlier. A top cut to her naval,showing the sides of her inner breasts, and a mini-skirt that, should the wind blow, would show where God split her.
She slept with anything that had a pulse, male or female. She did drugs, drank to black-out, and shoplifted when she wanted something she took a liking to. And, she called herself a Christian.

And all of us are surprised, right?

Some doctrine says all that matters is she was saved at some time before this. IOW, she really is a Christian.
As a non-OSAS I say I have no obligation to consider her one, and should actually avoid Christian fellowship with her.

A false teacher who spews false doctrine is like unto someone who throws a grappling hook, captures a soul, and walks it into Hell.
The later is far more evil than the former. Because there is hope for the former. While the later and their ego are harder to reach.

Do you believe that people will be lost, but who would have been saved if only they had been exposed to different circumstances? I don't believe that. That's why I don't get terribly excited about false doctrines ruining the church (which it has). Someone earnestly seeking God will ultimately not be swayed by false doctrine. False doctrine is how God sorts out those who will love righteousness, and those who don't. He will not let bad people into the kingdom. What you ultimately choose to believe shows which you are.

 

[angel page]

And all of us are surprised, right?

Some doctrine says all that matters is she was saved at some time before this. IOW, she really is a Christian.
As a non-OSAS I say I have no obligation to consider her one, and should actually avoid Christian fellowship with her.

(Edited, ToS 2.1, "We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God." Insinuations that parts of the Bible that are not direct quotes from Jesus are of lesser value are not allowed. Obadiah)
Scripture tells us we should always strive to live in a manner pleasing to Christ. So while a nominal Christian may dress that way, there are those who are truly born again that may also. And they're simply falling into that behavior that they can release if someone who would at them would refrain from that sin of mockery and council them to a better way.

Do you believe that people will be lost, but who would have been saved if only they had been exposed to different circumstances? I don't believe that. That's why I don't get terribly excited about false doctrines ruining the church (which it has). Someone earnestly seeking God will ultimately not be swayed by false doctrine. False doctrine is how God sorts out those who will love righteousness, and those who don't. He will not let bad people into the kingdom. What you ultimately choose to believe shows which you are.

I think anyone who teaches that Jesus is a liar when he spoke of eternal life and salvation, will be shut up once they die and find out God is not mocked.
Meanwhile, what is ruining the church are those who would redefine "eternal" so as to make it something that is transient.

 

[JLB]

Speaking for myself, I was never intending to Troll this thread. Rather, my remarks were directed at the overall mindset of a community of persons, not this community, nor one individual member within, that afford inflammatory remarks and condemnation against Christians who adhere to the scripture that supports what has come to be known as, OSAS doctrine.

The implication that intends for those who are not Christian, and even those who are, (Edited, ToS 2.4, rudeness and accusations toward a group of members in violation of this ToS. Obadiah.)

(Removed, response to deleted portion of a post. Obadiah)

The people, not God turn to other Gods, Idolatry.

They turn to the law of Moses: Messianic Judaism, and become a debtor to keep the whole law.

The turn to the False Messiah: The man of sin, son of perdition, Lawless one [antichrist]: Apostasy.

They take the mark of the beast: Forbidden by eternal torment day and night.

Live a live of walking in the flesh: Galatians 5:19-21

Then there are those on His left hand who are fruitless and sentenced by the Lord: Matthew 25:41-46

These are just some of the examples, of those who did not continue in the faith unto the end.

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:41-46


when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?

This is a reference to His people, not the world!


JLB

 

[Eugene]

I knew a woman who dressed as I described earlier. A top cut to her naval,showing the sides of her inner breasts, and a mini-skirt that, should the wind blow, would show where God split her.

And all of us are surprised, right?

We shall know them by their fruit, but how does God know them? By keeping the Sabbath? Only eating certain foods? Does any commission of a sin show them to be an unbeliever? Wasn't a woman told to sin no more? How did she do that? A man having kept all the law told to sell all and follow Jesus; know anyone doing that? I continue hearing the word belief attached to our gift of salvation, but I would suggest that it is the very basis of it , but then hear doing and don'ting tagged to it. Aren't many going to be surprised one day to see some little old lady that had a fish on her car that sped by them over the speed limit standing next to them in heaven before God's throne. Oh my. I sure hope she repented first.

 

[angel page]

We shall know them by their fruit, but how does God know them? By keeping the Sabbath? Only eating certain foods? Does any commission of a sin show them to be an unbeliever? Wasn't a woman told to sin no more? How did she do that? A man having kept all the law told to sell all and follow Jesus; know anyone doing that? I continue hearing the word belief attached to our gift of salvation, but I would suggest that it is the very basis of it , but then hear doing and don'ting tagged to it. Aren't many going to be surprised one day to see some little old lady that had a fish on her car that sped by them over the speed limit standing next to them in heaven before God's throne. Oh my. I sure hope she repented first.

That's exactly what I think those (Edited, ToS 2.4, accusation of false teaching on unclear doctrines. Obadiah.) hope to impart to those they come across.
That any sin after we are born again thereby revokes the covenant with Christ.
(Edited, ToS 2.4 questioning the salvation of those who take the opposing side of unclear doctrine. Obadiah)

 

[Eugene]

(Edited, ToS 2.1, "We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God." Insinuations that parts of the Bible that are not direct quotes from Jesus are of lesser value are not allowed. Obadiah)

(Removed, response to deleted post. Obadiah)
We are saved at this very moment from the penalty of sin, we are being saved with the power of the Holy Spirit working in us to overcome the habit and dominion of sin, and one day we will be saved from the very presence of sin when we are face to face with whom we love.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[angel page]

(Removed, response to deleted post. Obadiah)

 

[JLB]

That's exactly what I think those who promote the false teaching against eternal life and being born again hope to impart to those they come across.
That any sin after we are born again thereby revokes the covenant with Christ.
And that is what very tragically demonstrates their own damnation for not knowing what salvation truly is.

(Removed, response to deleted portoion of a post. Obadiah.)
Everyone needs to be secure in their eternal life.

Everyone needs to continue in the faith, unto the end.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Hebrews 3:12

Like I have said, it is not so much a single sin, or falling into a sinful situation that gets us.

It is becoming hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

Faith is produced in the believer by hearing God.

Sin produces death.

We can not expect to live a carnal lifestyle of sin and expect to walk in faith and Love and peace.

Sin robs us of our faith.

... for whatever is not from faith is sin. Romans 14:23

Man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of God.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

(Removed, response to deleted portoion of a post. Obadiah.)

Everyone needs to be secure in their eternal life.

Everyone needs to continue in the faith, unto the end.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Hebrews 3:12

Like I have said, it is not so much a single sin, or falling into a sinful situation that gets us.

It is becoming hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

Faith is produced in the believer by hearing God.

Sin produces death.

We can not expect to live a carnal lifestyle of sin and expect to walk in faith and Love and peace.

Sin robs us of our faith.

... for whatever is not from faith is sin. Romans 14:23

Man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of God.


JLB

Eugene - Can you provide scripture for this statement?
JLB - “Like I have said, it is not so much a single sin, or falling into a sinful situation that gets us.”
Eugene - How many may you murder before it counts against you?

Eugene - I was under the impression from former statements that you didn’t yet possess eternal life. Maybe I’m confusing with some other anti-OSAS child of God.
JLB - “Everyone needs to be secure in their eternal life.”
Eugene - Just what does eternal mean to you?

Thanks.

 

[JLB]

Eugene - Can you provide scripture for this statement?
JLB - “Like I have said, it is not so much a single sin, or falling into a sinful situation that gets us.”
Eugene - How many may you murder before it counts against you?

Eugene - I was under the impression from former statements that you didn’t yet possess eternal life. Maybe I’m confusing with some other anti-OSAS child of God.
JLB - “Everyone needs to be secure in their eternal life.”
Eugene - Just what does eternal mean to you?

Thanks.

Having peace with God.

For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6

What is being presented by Paul is the attributes of the Kingdom.

Right standing with God. Righteousness!

The Kingdom of God is Righteousness Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.

...to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Walking with God, walking in His presence, setting your mind on things above, spiritually minded people walk in life and peace.

These attributes of peace and life and joy and faith and love can be expected from those who obey what these commandments require.

on the other hand...

...to be carnally minded is death.

Security comes from The Spirit.

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you are disqualified!
2 Corinthians 13:5



JLB

 

[JLB]

Eugene said -

Eugene - Can you provide scripture for this statement?
JLB - “Like I have said, it is not so much a single sin, or falling into a sinful situation that gets us.”
Eugene - How many may you murder before it counts against you?

Well said!

How many times can you look at at woman with lust, before it counts against you?

To be carnally minded is death.

Here is the process.

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. James 1:14-15


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So while a nominal Christian may dress that way, there are those who are truly born again that may also. And they're simply falling into that behavior that they can release if someone who would at them would refrain from that sin of mockery and council them to a better way.

If they are too proud to not learn from correction, that is God's way of sorting them out.

How we respond to things is how we show if we are what God is looking for to place in his kingdom on the Day he establishes that kingdom. Someone who gets offended by correction, even if it is impolite correction, is not what God is looking for. Pride is contrary to the fruit of the Spirit produced by faith in Christ.

I think anyone who teaches that Jesus is a liar when he spoke of eternal life and salvation, will be shut up once they die and find out God is not mocked.
Meanwhile, what is ruining the church are those who would redefine "eternal" so as to make it something that is transient.

This is what eternal life is:

"11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name." (Revelation 3:11-12)

Only those who are clinging to Christ's blood in faith have the promise of one day entering into this eternal, unmovable, unshakable kingdom (what is described above has not happened yet). Until then, God is indeed doing a lot of moving and shaking to see what's left to inherit this kingdom. Our responsibility is to make sure we endure to the end and enter into this eternal kingdom--eternal because it will never end, and it's inhabitants can no longer be dispelled from it (think Israel). As long as you have faith in Christ and do not shrink back from that faith you have the promise of what that faith secures for a person. Lose that faith and you lose what faith secures. You will not be included when God establishes his Son's kingdom at the end of things.